Remember Wolf 3D...?

[Captain Red]

Scuba Steve said:
...Or when the old Wolf3d title song is being sung on the Radio.

uhhhh, the wolf 3D theme song is the nazi party anthem. (I found that out the hard way... don't hum it in class :/)

Lord FlatHead said:
...the control is horrible...

yes. that is the main reason I don't enjoy old games as much is not because of the graphics or difficulty or whatever other dumb reasons the 'old-skool' frads tell me, most old games are an absolute pain to control. Thankfully, since new wolf wolf 3d doesn’t have that problem.

Oh and I love RtCW, even if it is Totally unoriginal and mainstream.

[Captain Red]

AndrewB said:
This is mainly because of the mono-sound, and sounds never having their volume lowered. This means constant frantically looking in every direction, and not knowing if there's an SS around that corner, or if he's in another part of the map entirely.

Uhhhh, well in the version I have, it DOSE have Stereo along with distance volume whatsit (I don't know the technical term). In fact, it was one of the first things I noticed about it when I was playing it.
I’ll Admit, it isn't implemented anywhere near as well as it was in doom, buy I usually managed to pin point the position my enemy with out too much difficulty.

Arno said:
The things that amazed me the most was the 3D look and the fact that corpses from enemies actually remained on the floor. They didn't flicker out of existence, like in most 2D games of that time.

Heh, yeah. It’s always funny when I reflect on things that impressed me when I first play such and such a game. Like in doom, the fact that I could gib baddies was incredible the first time I pulled it off.

[AndrewB]

I remember, for about 6 months, I was obsessed trying to figure out how to splatter a pinky demon.

[Mordeth]

Did you guys know there actually is a Wolfenstein mod that allows for flat sprites? As in, using sprites for 'flat' decorations such as paintings or fences. I'm at work so I'm without a bookmark, but a little searching around will yield the URL prompto.

[dsm]

AndrewB said:

I'm sorry, but Wolf3D's food was vastly superior to RTCW's food.

/Me ponders a lot.
Uhm, how can the food be "superior" in Wolf3d? Afaik, both Wolf3d and RtCW has turkey dinners, Wolf3d has the dog food (for the fun of it and because it has dogs) and RtCW has cold food for the low-ranking Nazis (while the turkeys are for the officers). I agree that it is disappointing that RtCW has no dog food (and dogs), but I like the fact that you can eat portions of the meals in RtCW, plus, the munching sound BJ makes when he gobbles up the food is great.

I didn't like the fact that the health value of the health items in RtCW are different from Wolf3d though, especially not that turkey dinners should be more 'rewarding' than health kits as it makes little sense - food doesn't heal wounds (merely makes you feel better inside), bandages and salves do.

...the control is horrible...

And the control in RtCW doesn't suck?
Admittedly, the fact that there were no strafe left/right keys sucked in Wolf3d, but RtCW is far worse in that aspect. There are way too many keys to press and when I think about it, I'm sure that half of those keys aren't even necessary.

If ever a sequel to RtCW is to be made (and it is very likely since RtCW takes place in 1943 while there are still 2 more years of the war remaining), I hope that whoever does it focuses on making the game a lot more simple (as far as control goes) than RtCW.

This could be done by:
- dropping the sprint key and make the game like Doom 3 with depleting stamina whenever you run (the regular running in RtCW is not important: you either sneak to avoid detection or you run as fast as you can to get away/close the distance).
- Make key combinations with the use key to perform stuff like kicking. Ex: Press and hold 'run' key while facing a "kickable" object and press 'use'. You also don't need to open doors normally in RtCW - you either want to open the door silently or to open quickly (by kicking it in), so they should('ve made) make it so that you normally open doors silently and then you "run" towards the door and press the use key to open it quickly by kicking it in.
- Somehow make leaning automatic - in Wolf3d, there was a bug that would allow you to "peek" around corners and see guards without them seeing you, by simply turning inward (towards the wall). If they make a bug like this a feature, it'll work far better than have two extra keys to bug the player with.
- Either scrap picking up chairs and be able to beat enemies with them or do it like this: Press 'use' to pick up chair regardless of the weapon you're carrying. The currently selected weapon is put away and the chair becomes your currently selected "weapon". Press 'use' to drop chair again and reselect your previously selected weapon or press 'fire' to swing the chair while carrying it. When carrying a chair, the chair is your only weapon you can use until you drop the chair again.

Oh yes, and if they do make a sequel to RtCW, they should bring the dogs back in - hurting the feelings of dog lovers is no excuse! Saying that you don't like to kill the dogs in Wolf3d is just as retarded as if I went "Boo hoo, I don't wanna kill the Wehrmacht soldiers in RtCW because the Wehrmacht soldiers were forced to serve and therefore not evil!!!"

[pritch]

The dinner in Wolf3d is better because it's just good, old fashioned meat and two veg: pixelated food :)

[dsm]

pritch said:

The dinner in Wolf3d is better because it's just good, old fashioned meat and two veg: pixelated food :)

I wasn't aware that such things mattered in these games...
Oh well, thanks for the enlightenment.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

When I first played it, it seemed a bit wierd as I'd never seen anything like it before. Once I got the controls sorted, it was great - the atmosphere (ie. trying to break out of a castle against the odds) was great, and the fact you couldn't tell where anyone was and the fact that you took realistic damage (ie. 1 or 2 shots and you're dead) meant you had to be more careful. I didn't mind the mazes though, as things always got pretty tense in them (especially when the enemies were deaf), gameplay was still enjoyable, and I liked the scoring system as well - something to play for as well as just getting out.

[dsm]

Ultimate DooMer said:

and the fact that you took realistic damage (ie. 1 or 2 shots and you're dead) meant you had to be more careful.

I wouldn't call it "realistic damage" in Wolfenstein 3d. At close range you'd be toast if shot more than once yes, but at even relatively short distances, you'd make it out alive after three or four shots and further away you could suck up a lot.

But anyways, I wonder why they don't implement more damaging enemies in fps's nowadays - instead of making the enemies like terminators, they could make the enemies weak, but you almost as weak - that'd feel more realistic and be a heck lot more fun. I'm tired of shooting at terminators >:-/

[Sharessa]

I liked RTCW. It was real fun and challenging, and possibly the most realistic FPS I've played tactic-wise and graphic-wise. That assassin part in the church was hard as Hell. It took me about 30 tries, but it was still fun nonetheless. And the crypt part was pretty creepy. It really kept me on the edge.

At any rate, it wont work anymore for some reason, so I'm stuck with only seeing about half the game.

[Mordeth]

dsm said:
But anyways, I wonder why they don't implement more damaging enemies in fps's nowadays - instead of making the enemies like terminators, they could make the enemies weak, but you almost as weak - that'd feel more realistic and be a heck lot more fun.

Blood. When one of those Cultists started shooting at you, you'd better take cover because your health would go down so FAST you wouldn't have had time to say 'ouch'. And when you did take cover in time, better watch out that he didn't chuck a dynamite stick after you :)

Or those damn Hellhounds. Easy to put down with a couple of shots, but if they got you and set you on fire you were in big trouble if there wasn't any water nearby. Heh.

[Fletcher`]

Does anybody still edit for the old wolfenstein? I've only been doing the shareware version. :P

[AndrewB]

I've edited for Wolf3D before. It was pretty fun. Except that I could never get the end-level elevators to work.

[insertwackynamehere]

I may have only played the secret levels on Doom II; I was so young I don't remember. But I still enjoyed it, and remember my uncle showing me some secret with the BFG (which probably means it was Doom II Lev. 30. Was there a BFG in Wolf?)

[dsm]

Mordeth said:

Blood. When one of those Cultists started shooting at you, you'd better take cover because your health would go down so FAST you wouldn't have had time to say 'ouch'. And when you did take cover in time, better watch out that he didn't chuck a dynamite stick after you :)

I know, but Blood isn't exactly a 'modern' shooter - I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear that I meant "modern" as in "beyond Quake 2 tech" shooters.

[Fletcher`]

AndrewB said:

I've edited for Wolf3D before. It was pretty fun. Except that I could never get the end-level elevators to work.

There's a certain trick regarding which floor you put down. I think its 6b you should put down inside the elevator. I don't remember. I'd have to toy around with it. :)

[Rotting Corpse]

AndrewB said:

I'm sorry, but Wolf3D's food was vastly superior to RTCW's food.

Eat more dog food!


I loved wolf3d. That was the fist game I ever played. If I never played wolf i would'nt be posting.

[NailGunner]

Ct_red_pants said:

uhhhh, the wolf 3D theme song is the nazi party anthem. (I found that out the hard way... don't hum it in class :/)

lol!

Now that's funny!

[SteelPH]

ahh yes, wolf 3d's turkey dinners.... bj could eat ANYTHING.
food: he not only eats the food, but the plate as well :)
dog food: he also ate the bowl :P

it's either that, or he has a large collection of german porcelon(sp?) plates and bowls :]

[Captain Red]

Mordeth said:
Blood. When one of those Cultists started shooting at you, you'd better take cover because your health would go down so FAST you wouldn't have had time to say 'ouch'. And when you did take cover in time, better watch out that he didn't chuck a dynamite stick after you :)

Or those damn Hellhounds. Easy to put down with a couple of shots, but if they got you and set you on fire you were in big trouble if there wasn't any water nearby. Heh.

I'm ashamed to admit that I ended up turning down the Difficulty when I first played it. I thought it was silly that it took more then one flare to set a Cultist on fire... they're not generous with ammo in the first episode of that game :(

dsm said:
...And what happened to the doggies?

killing dogs is wrong :(

dsm said:
...and the sounds top-notch. It sucks that the Nazis rarely speak any German though.

I don't know, i mean, yeah, the weapon sounds are great, but I was really dissapointed with most of the other sounds in that game. the zombies in perticular... It might have been because I had played Medal of honour before hand (heck, even the PSX version sounds great) but I was for the most part underwhelmed with the RtCW sounds. Oh, and the fact tha the nazis don't speak german really bites. I mean, come on! even in the original Escape Castle Wolfenstein the nazis spoke german!

it's kinda funny that Return to Castle Wolfenstein is almost nothing like Wolfenstein 3d witch in turn, is nothing like Escape Castle Wolfenstein... the only thing they have to do with eachother is nazis and a Castle called Castle Wolfenstein...

[Scuba Steve]

footman said:

ahh yes, wolf 3d's turkey dinners.... bj could eat ANYTHING.

Did you guys know that if your health was below 10% in Wolf 3D you could drink puddles of blood for 1% health? Kinda like the first health bonus I guess.

[Captain Red]

Scuba Steve said:
Did you guys know that if your health was below 10% in Wolf 3D you could drink puddles of blood for 1% health? Kinda like the first health bonus I guess.

heh, I only recently found out you could do that. I just about jumped out of my skin when I first heard the *slurp* sound! I thought it was some kind of new monster I hadn'd seen!

[Amaster]

Scuba Steve said:

Did you guys know that if your health was below 10% in Wolf 3D you could drink puddles of blood for 1% health? Kinda like the first health bonus I guess.

I never knew that! Are there any source ports for Wolf 3D for us XPers? I have to try this out.

[Scuba Steve]

http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/ports/index.php?platform=9 at the very bottom

[Stealthy Ivan]

Im glad to see there is alot of old school gamers on here!
(And Blood was a kick ass game!!!)
RTCW was a new school version of a game we all onced loved, I know it seems kinda like the rest of the FPS's out there these days, but its cool that id software is still keeping old school games alive!

[Kinsie]

Assmaster said:

I never knew that! Are there any source ports for Wolf 3D for us XPers? I have to try this out.

Look for NewWolf, it's a OpenGL sourceport for Windows. iD also once released a Windows95 version of Wolf3d onto retail.

Oh, and some cool shit using the wolf engine: areyep.com and download Spear Resurrection.

[Sharessa]

Scuba Steve said:

Did you guys know that if your health was below 10% in Wolf 3D you could drink puddles of blood for 1% health? Kinda like the first health bonus I guess.

Heh...I read that on Rinkworks and it surprised the hell out of me. After all that time I wasted on Wolfenstein way back when, I can't believe I never figured that out. I was gonna post something about that here when I founf out...guess its too late now.

[Job]

I made a Goldeneye TC for Wolfenstein. It was pretty neat. Good 'ol Wolfenstein...

[Mordeth]

dsm said:
I know, but Blood isn't exactly a 'modern' shooter - I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear that I meant "modern" as in "beyond Quake 2 tech" shooters.

Blood 2: The Chosen :)

Although that game is more leaning towards "frustrating" in terms of quick deaths. I mean, going from full armor / 200 % health to nought in a few instances. If only armor meant something in that game... it doesn't.

And hey, let's not forget to the Stupid Doors Of Instant Death which crush you while opening :(

Ct_red_pants said:
I'm ashamed to admit that I ended up turning down the Difficulty when I first played it. I thought it was silly that it took more then one flare to set a Cultist on fire... they're not generous with ammo in the first episode of that game :(

It DOES take only one flare to set a cultist on fire... it just takes a while for the flare to do its work. Just shoot, take cover and wait a few seconds to hear a satisfying "IT BURNS IT BURNS AAAAAAAHHH!" :)

And I don't survive the highest skill setting either, and the second highest skill setting is more trouble than it's worth. Monolith claimed those skill settings were intended for coop play.

[dsm]

Ct_red_pants said:

killing dogs is wrong :(

In real life yes, but not in a computer game. I mean, killing humans is wrong too, but not in computer game.

I don't know, i mean, yeah, the weapon sounds are great, but I was really dissapointed with most of the other sounds in that game. the zombies in perticular... It might have been because I had played Medal of honour before hand (heck, even the PSX version sounds great) but I was for the most part underwhelmed with the RtCW sounds.

Well, ok, some of the RtCW sounds are pretty weak now that I think about it - when you shoot a Nazi and he makes that weak scream - come on, they ought to have done better than that! But I was more thinking about environmental sounds when I said the sounds were great. I really love the sounds in the crypt and in the prison dungeon.

Oh, and the fact tha the nazis don't speak german really bites. I mean, come on! even in the original Escape Castle Wolfenstein the nazis spoke german!

Honestly, it does not bother me that they speak English with a "Hollywood German" accent whenever they have something important to say, but the fact that they yell stuff like "Kill him!", "There he is, stop him!" etc. in English is just so retarded. And it's kinda disappointing that all the soldiers yell "Halt!" in English! I mean, if id could have the Nazis say all those funny phrases in German in Wolf3d, then certainly Gray Matter ought to be capable of figuring that out too.
I mean, id was overseeing the project while in development weren't they?

it's kinda funny that Return to Castle Wolfenstein is almost nothing like Wolfenstein 3d witch in turn, is nothing like Escape Castle Wolfenstein... the only thing they have to do with eachother is nazis and a Castle called Castle Wolfenstein...

Quite, but originally, id intended Wolf3d to be a lot more like the Apple 2 game. But at least RtCW has a somewhat similar story, the same hero and it even has the four old Wolf3d weapons (knife, pistol, machinegun, chaingun transferred to RtCW as: knife, Lüger, MP40 and the Venom gun). Also, there are a lot of elements from Wolf3d that return in RtCW, like those ovens and some of the decorations later in the game (it's just a matter of using your eyes).