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DoomGappy

Do you design pistol only sections in your maps?

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When you are mapping, do you design any pistol based combat, or do you just give the player the shotgun and some shells straight away?

Edited by DoomGappy

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I think it can be a fun idea to place a weapon a bit away from the player start every now and again, to force a bit of panic in the scramble to find better weaponry, particularly when coupled with a hot or lukewarm start. It presents a short term goal that pushes the player into exploring the level. I think this is the main value to be had from pistol sections, as opposed to trying to cook up scenarios that demand the player to actually use it... though some clever barrel placement can go a long way to making that good times!

 

That said and to answer the question: I've only ever mapped with the goal of the player actually using the pistol beyond "find shotgunner and take his gun" once before I had the knowledge to make it anything other than a slog, perhaps also further steered away from due to jadedness of perceived tedium in slow gameplay. In most maps I made, there is either a rocket launcher somewhere nearby the player start lol, or some other weapon I expect the player to run to, instead of painstakingly peashooting pawns. The same generally extends to the shotgun for my maps as well. Idk maybe it's just one of those things I can appreciate more in other people's works but can't in my own.

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In almost all my maps, I've given a better weapon to the player right off the bat (or a shotgunner that isn't too hard to pistol down). When I don't give a better weapon right away, I'll design the map around not using any weapons at all until you get a better one. The pistol is just not fun to use.

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give the player the chainsaw and some chainsaws straight away, yes!

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54 minutes ago, yakfak said:

give the player the chainsaw and some chainsaws straight away, yes!

I choose to interpret this as a map giving the player a very obvious chainsaw in the first room, then like 20 more chainsaws obscenely scattered about in a cluster in the middle of the floor in the next room 😂

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Not really "pistol-only" in the traditional, literalist sense, but I ensure that ALL of my maps are feasibly beatable (IE: 100% kills without resorting to infighting or punching) from a pistol-start, on Ultra-Violence, without secret goodies. (Secrets in my eyes are meant to be bonuses, not mandatory for not wanting to pull your hair out)

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There's a good distinction here between pistol only sections and actually forcing the player to use the pistol to clear things.

 

Killing things with a pistol sucks and should be kept to a minimum. Whether that means giving the player something to do to progress that isn't tied to killing things, giving them an alternate weapon straight away, or giving them the option of getting to a better weapon first. I'd rather have at least an infighting scenario rather than force using the pistol. I'm not counting sections dedicated to platforming, or ones that use crushers or excessive barrels to compensate for the pistol's shittiness. Any of those would be equally fun with a shotgun in hand, and in the case of barrels much more predictable.

 

It's exceedingly tedious and unsatisfying to pew stuff down, and the damage/time per kill variance is so much higher on the pistol compared to either the shotgun or chaingun, or even chainsaw. It can take such a long time to pistol something if you get bad rng, while the chaingun has about 3.5x the dps and hitstun going for it making it bearable to use. The shotgun, on the other hand, has the bell curve effect making the number of shots to kill things a ton more consistent. 

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4 hours ago, Fonze said:

Painstakingly Peashooting Pawns

That's a community project title right there. 

 

1 hour ago, MEMEAIDS said:

Not really "pistol-only" in the traditional, literalist sense, but I ensure that ALL of my maps are feasibly beatable (IE: 100% kills without resorting to infighting or punching) from a pistol-start, on Ultra-Violence, without secret goodies. (Secrets in my eyes are meant to be bonuses, not mandatory for not wanting to pull your hair out)

That's a good design philosophy to have, good for balancing ammo and such. 

 

1 hour ago, Lucius Wooding said:

Killing things with a pistol sucks and should be kept to a minimum. 

I'll use going down map01 as an example of this being well done, and also of the weaker enemies posing a threat due to sheer numbers. It seems that when you have a pistol only, the panic to find a shotgun sets in and you have to get it much faster. Assuming there aren't any more lethal weapons like the chainsaw or the berserk pack. 

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Often when I'm making pistol-start maps, I do tend to keep the first weapon away from the player, just to make them appreciate the firepower a bit more than they would otherwise. Entryway 2.0 that I made specifically had the shotguns stashed in the secret areas of the map, since I always felt that arming the player so quickly with a powerful arsenal in the original Entryway was a bit stupid.

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9 minutes ago, baja blast rd. said:

Not until now. There's no RNG in this map if you do it right.

 

"Pistol Panic"

 

bvlsXkt.png

 

Build time: 5 minutes including testing.

 

ppan.zip

 

Also known as anxiety boiled down into a map.

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9 hours ago, Fonze said:

I choose to interpret this as a map giving the player a very obvious chainsaw in the first room, then like 20 more chainsaws obscenely scattered about in a cluster in the middle of the floor in the next room 😂

 

Stealing this idea NOBODY ELSE DO IT

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i am admittedly a coward and give the player a weapon as soon as combat starts. usually a shotgun but i've done berserk and rocketlauncher. pewpewpewing with the pistol is reserved for shootable switches and sigil eye secrets

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if im mapping for an extended engine i like to beef up the pistol a bit like in valiant or replace it with the alpha rifle and beef up the damage (fun fact this will almost certainly cause zombiemen to occasionally gib which is funny). in vanilla i either give berserk or at least a regular ol shotgun

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I'm part of the "always give a weapon at the start" crowd, but one minor under-appreciated thing about starting with the pistol (as opposed to beginning with the shotgun straight away) is that I can make that first weapon pickup a chaingun or a rocket launcher instead. ;)

 

Maybe the ideal starting loadout would've been nothing but the fist. A la carte, all the way.

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4 hours ago, Xaser said:

I'm part of the "always give a weapon at the start" crowd, but one minor under-appreciated thing about starting with the pistol (as opposed to beginning with the shotgun straight away) is that I can make that first weapon pickup a chaingun or a rocket launcher instead. ;)

 

Maybe the ideal starting loadout would've been nothing but the fist. A la carte, all the way.


I actually want to make that for a project I'm going to create later on, but my idea is that the level has two paths and each path is designed based on a weapon pickup, so, for example, you'd have a level with a chaingun and a shotgun and depending on the weapon you pickup, things change. Is it possible to do that in MBF21? Simply remove the pistol from the initial arsenal? 

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Not directly, unfortunately -- modifying the actual weapon slots or the starting arsenal was a bit too tall of an order at the time. Maybe for future things, but no guarantees. :P

 

Still though, the concept totally works even without modifying the arsenal, 'cause the pistol is... well, the pistol. :P

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1 hour ago, DoomGappy said:


I actually want to make that for a project I'm going to create later on, but my idea is that the level has two paths and each path is designed based on a weapon pickup, so, for example, you'd have a level with a chaingun and a shotgun and depending on the weapon you pickup, things change. Is it possible to do that in MBF21? Simply remove the pistol from the initial arsenal? 

Cyberdreams makes the pistol have 0 bullets at the start of the map, so it automatically resorts to the fists. If you hand out ammo for it you can actually use the gun, but you'll use your fists at the start of the level.

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4 hours ago, Pancrasio said:

Cyberdreams makes the pistol have 0 bullets at the start of the map, so it automatically resorts to the fists. If you hand out ammo for it you can actually use the gun, but you'll use your fists at the start of the level.

I guess combining your answer with Xaser's is the definitive answer for something that doesn't require extensive modding. Make the pistol 0 bullets at start and when the player gets the chaingun + some bullets, they will not resort to the pistol because... It's the pistol. That's very clever.

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Attempting to use the pistol in any wad with "cyb" in the title is overcompensating anyway. We get it, your testicles and whatnot are very large.

 

Spoiler

But it doesn't matter because you're going to be a virgin forever.

 

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obviously it depends on the style of the map, but having the player have to pistol down a monster to get a weapon is pretty fun ;D

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Sometimes, yes, if I think it can be done in a fun and rewarding way. For example the starting area of Map05 of this set was designed around an intense experience based on a pistol start.

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