Worst official level?

[Zulk RS]

Does MAP33: Betrayal count? Then that one. If not, Habitat.

[LoatharMDPhD]

11 hours ago, genitalgrinder said:

 It teaches new players to never pick up landmines invisibility spheres ...
 

// Those bastards were put there just to piss off speed-runner completionists who are seeking validation by %100 everything... 

[apichatpong]

19 hours ago, ShallowB said:

Underhalls has multiple actors stuck in walls and is missing a few textures, so I think that has to win by default, right?

 

18 hours ago, EraserheadBaby said:

Whoa, really  I never noticed.  maybe because I always play on GZ Doom. 

 

Strange, maybe I miss some irony here ?

When I play on gzdoom I have 5 or 6 shotgunners stucked in the walls, with other ports there is just one near a barrel before jumping down to get the blue key.

(and I kinda liike underhalls)

[DemonCake]

13 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

Disappointed nobody mentioned Nirvana or Unruly Evil yet. 

Oh god that map is torture

[JoJo_BadDoom]

I'll probably be given the lethal injection for this opinion, but I really don't like the one-two combo of The Pit and Refuelling Base. The Pit just feels like it drags on for me, and Refuelling Base feels a bit too directionless. Combined, these levels are usually where I give Doom 2 a rest.

Habitat is average. Nirvana is average. The Chasm is good.

But, even I can't defend Administration Centre.

[DoctorOPlays]

Map 13 is the worst map in doom 2

[Celestin]

Barrels o' Fun is the only official map that is that I find completely irredeemable. When it comes to the usual suspects (Nirvana, Habitat, Drake O'Brien's maps from TNT), there's either one interesting thing, or a map is short and easy. Not with MAP23. It's ugly, its gimmick is heavy-handed and it's difficult for wrong reasons.

[GreenAnime]

the one where you pistol start cacos without ammo like wtf

[LadyMistDragon]

The Factory.

 

I can not think of a more bland, disorganized, and entirely unengaging excuse for a map in Doom II. And that ending should've be flushed down the crapper the instant it was birthed. Hideous.

 

Otherwise.....Habitat probably comes close but there are actually 1 or 2 bits that aren't so bad.

 

Can't say I like Mephisto's Masoleum either, but there are a couple of chris klie maps (Combine and Catwalk) that make that one a close run. The latter aren't as obnoxious though.

[LoserXylophone]

13 year old me fucking hated E1M6 because for some reason I got stuck on that level for like 3 hours so now I think the level is ok but do to that time I got stuck on it for 3 hours I think E1M6 is the worst level in doom.

[Maximum Matt]

12 hours ago, Yousuf Anik said:

And what about map 31 and 32 from Doom 2 ??

Well, they technically ain't Doom, are they?

[Yousuf Anik]

7 hours ago, Maximum Matt said:

Well, they technically ain't Doom, are they?

Ha, that's the point! I think they are sort of mix since some demons also exist in those maps.

[Amaruq Wulfe]

17 hours ago, apichatpong said:

 

 

Strange, maybe I miss some irony here ?

When I play on gzdoom I have 5 or 6 shotgunners stucked in the walls, with other ports there is just one near a barrel before jumping down to get the blue key.

(and I kinda liike underhalls)

 

GZDoom does fix a lot of stuck enemy anomalies in the maps. Not sure if there's a toggle in the settings for this, but I'm at least aware that GZDoom applies fixes. A good example to take note of this is in the Tenements, where the spectres behind the red door are stuck into each other, but not on GZDoom.

[Amaruq Wulfe]

13 hours ago, LadyMistDragon said:

The Factory.

 

I can not think of a more bland, disorganized, and entirely unengaging excuse for a map in Doom II.

 

 

Baby you haven't played Nirvana...?

 

It's one ugly hackjob of brown and square for the 90% of the map, followed by a hackjob of grey, green and red.

[zokum]

Doom 2 map 21, Nirvana. Bad flow, simple geometry, tons of texture themes and it is buggy. Original Doom, E3m1 and e2m9. Not as bad as 21, 12 and 32 in d2. Tfc: m4, m7 and m9. Better than all the previous ones.

[Gothic]

15 hours ago, GreenAnime said:

the one where you pistol start cacos without ammo like wtf

I never understood people's issue with the cacodemons at the start of e3m1. Do they not just ignore them and go for the shotgun?

[_sink]

41 minutes ago, Gothic said:

I never understood people's issue with the cacodemons at the start of e3m1. Do they not just ignore them and go for the shotgun?

i too am shocked by the e3m1 hate. unholy cathedral is more annoying if we are talking abt 'wtf' things in the first three episodes

[aRottenKomquat]

48 minutes ago, Gothic said:

I never understood people's issue with the cacodemons at the start of e3m1. Do they not just ignore them and go for the shotgun?

 

One thing I've noticed as I've become more of a mapper and have watched people playtest my maps: there is a category of player that treats monsters as walls. They will not advance until they kill every monster available from their position. I noticed this when that type of playtester couldn't beat my maps because they ran out of ammo or didn't have the right weapons. They were available had the player just left their position and done some exploring, but they were so focused on killing monsters that they don't even think about exploring until the area is safe.

[Maximum Matt]

37 minutes ago, _sink said:

i too am shocked by the e3m1 hate. unholy cathedral is more annoying if we are talking abt 'wtf' things in the first three episodes

At least Unholy Cathedral is ominous, looks like a "real" place (some sort of cathedral, that may or may not be unholy) and has options on where to go (and I'm guessing the annoyance you refer to is getting lost in the level/the unintuitive teleporters).  Hell Keep however is simply shit from every angle, (like 6 boxy rooms connected with corridors, no height variation, pistoling cacos, have to know about a false wall to run through, only three enemy types, only one secret, bland texturing (compared to later levels), first building walls look paper thin when viewed from the sides etc etc) and deserves extra hate because it's an episode opener.  Arguably Warrens should have been E3M1 and this one should have been binned

[Helton342]

2 hours ago, Gothic said:

I never understood people's issue with the cacodemons at the start of e3m1. Do they not just ignore them and go for the shotgun?

Same here, i think people really are just parakeeting Civvie when it comes to that, without any real insight

[Logamuffin]

1 hour ago, _sink said:

i too am shocked by the e3m1 hate.

This. Only part of E3M1 that really sucks is the pinkie hallway which is cheap and unfun. Rest of it though is decent. The first room is a great introduction to hell, the bridge room is a good trick and while the rest I can take or leave, at least the mediocre parts go by pretty quick.

[zokum]

E3m1 is a better intro to what is to come than e2m1, but a Worse map. I really like e3m5. It has so many Nice visuals.

 

[_sink]

1 hour ago, Maximum Matt said:

At least Unholy Cathedral is ominous, looks like a "real" place (some sort of cathedral, that may or may not be unholy) and has options on where to go (and I'm guessing the annoyance you refer to is getting lost in the level/the unintuitive teleporters).  Hell Keep however is simply shit from every angle, (like 6 boxy rooms connected with corridors, no height variation, pistoling cacos, have to know about a false wall to run through, only three enemy types, only one secret, bland texturing (compared to later levels), first building walls look paper thin when viewed from the sides etc etc) and deserves extra hate because it's an episode opener.  Arguably Warrens should have been E3M1 and this one should have been binned

you WILL pistol the cacodemon as penitence for your ammo management

[JoJo_BadDoom]

Narratively, the Caco in e3m1 makes sense. It really hammers home the fact that you're in Hell, by forcing you to plink away at it with your peashooter. An amazing bit of storytelling via gameplay mechanics, courtesy of Sandersen Petersen (the GOATest of all time)

[Sinnesloeschen]

Doom 2s "City" map (Forgot the number).

 

Just wtf.

 

My (Then) 14 year old friends and me had made more convincing city maps at that point.

 

And one of the cardinal rules of map design is "If you have to paint arrows into your map so people know where to go: Redesign your map!" - Perhaps even due to this map.

 

Now Sandy Peterson (Who made that one) has gotten enough shit over the years for that thing, but i just can't help myself and mention it. :p

[spineapple tea]

2 hours ago, Helton342 said:

Same here, i think people really are just parakeeting Civvie when it comes to that, without any real insight

Speaking of Civvie parakeeting ^

 

I really don't get why everyone dogs on the arrow so much. It's supposed to be an urban city. What do you see in urban cities that guides you on where you need to go? Besides, arrow or not Downtown is not a very confusing level if you pay attention to what you're doing.

[Helton342]

21 minutes ago, spineapple tea said:

Speaking of Civvie parakeeting ^

 

I really don't get why everyone dogs on the arrow so much. It's supposed to be an urban city. What do you see in urban cities that guides you on where you need to go? Besides, arrow or not Downtown is not a very confusing level if you pay attention to what you're doing.

 

Well, it probably was worse back then when it was released. Because people likely didn't have as much of a game sense. Which for these days, thanks to a lot of guides, walkthroughs, cooperative efforts, and more. Its kinda stupid to hate it because of "confusion"

[zokum]

Dowtown was scaled down for low fps reasons. More grand in beta. No idea if it was Even bigger at some time. Id had stricter limits and less textures done than pwads

[aRottenKomquat]

36 minutes ago, spineapple tea said:

Speaking of Civvie parakeeting ^

 

I really don't get why everyone dogs on the arrow so much. It's supposed to be an urban city. What do you see in urban cities that guides you on where you need to go? Besides, arrow or not Downtown is not a very confusing level if you pay attention to what you're doing.

 

Even with the arrow, I always struggle with Downtown. I don't recall the specifics but there's a mandatory area somewhere within the warehouse building the arrow points to that I just can't find. I wander around, never see it, continually walk past it without realizing it's there, and can never remember it the next time I play.

[nathanB404]

On 3/19/2024 at 9:43 PM, EraserheadBaby said:

too drunk, forget it

Your drunk? Wish i was rn