Invisible Stairs

[guru]

I was wondering how they are implemented nowadays. I read the info from "Hykkelbjerg's Doom Editing Pages" but it kinda seems outdated to me?? I'm working in ZDOOM btw.

I tried putting a sector inside a sector whose 1st and 2nd linedefs are referring to itself but that results in a HOM (thats how I understood the info - maybe got that wrong). Using invisible bridge thing will not be suficcient btw as I want to move the invisible sector up and down.

Any info will be greatly apprec... been working on that for a day now and I can't figure it out. :/

[ReX]

guru said:

I tried putting a sector inside a sector whose 1st and 2nd linedefs are referring to itself but that results in a HOM

To prevent HOM in an "invisible" bridge sector, refer to the method described in The DooMWorld Editing Pages. Implementing this trick for stairs might require quite a bit of work.

Ask your question in the ZDooM forums too.

[Grimm]

As far as I know, you can exactly make invisible stairs, but if you put self referencing sectors just inside the sector you want the stairs to be in, it should work. Download Cyberdreams for a psuedo-example of what I'm talkin' about. You might not be able to move 'em around, though.

[ReX]

RTDscout said:

You might not be able to move 'em around, though.

Guru said "...as I want to move the invisible sector up and down". That's why just using ZDooM's Thing 9990 won't work. (Unless there's a way to change the z coordinate of a thing using a script.)

[NiGHTMARE]

Can't you create/destroy invisible bridge things via scripting?

[Amaster]

Self referencing sectors can be moved just like normal sectors in vanilla DooM. If your using Wad author, you have to make sure to add all the tags and triggers before changing the sector reference.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

ReX said:

Guru said "...as I want to move the invisible sector up and down". That's why just using ZDooM's Thing 9990 won't work. (Unless there's a way to change the z coordinate of a thing using a script.)

There are a few ways you can do this:

1. Use Thing_Move to move the bridge thing from one place to another - requires a mapspot. (but this uses teleport fog so make sure you're out of the room)

2. Use an actor mover to move the thing up - 2 interpolation points are required.

3. Give the bridge thing a tag and use Thing_Remove to remove it, while at the same time using spawn (requires precise x,y,z coordinates) or spawnspot (requires a mapspot) to spawn another bridge thing at the new height.

You can do it through vanilla, as the 3D bridge mech uses a self-referencing sector that moves up and down.

[guru]

ok thnx for all the info. I'll go for the vanilla style as moving the sector is much more easy then.

[edit]
hmm ok this is still not working. either /me dumb or maybe its something about deepbsp's interpretation? this is what I do:

1. create a sector
2. create a second sector inside the sector (2-sided linedefs)
3. change all linedefs of sector #1 to reference to itself

what happens is that the entire sector's floor height is influenced by the one in the center. so if I lower the floor my view is closer to the floor or I "float" when I raise the floor.

[edit #2]
nevermind. it works perfectly when I put another sector around the inner one.

[Sphagne]

You can spawn Invisible bridge objects with specific tids so that you can remove them when you want. the last parameter of thing spawn script function is it`s tid.

[Cyrez]

Umm, you can also do invisable stairs with the transfer hight command in ZDoom. you can get a demo wad Here

[Cyb]

Actually it's generally better if you're using Boom, to use the boom effects in place of the old doom2.exe tricks since none of them require special nodes builds or weird sector references or cause HOM when viewed from a certain weird angle. Really, Boom obsoletes doom2.exe effects and makes them cleaner to use (with the exception of instant move stuff, I'm not quite sure if Boom can do that without the need for dummy sectors). Obviously you can't use them if you want the map to work on doom2.exe. Also on top of that opengl boom ports (Legacy, glBoom, Zdoomgl) don't mess up tricks done with Boom stuff, but doom2.exe tricks always end up getting messed up.

[Mordeth]

Cyb said:
Really, Boom obsoletes doom2.exe effects

Not true. Depending on the situation you may want to use an 'old' vanilla doom trick in preference over the same effect done with Boom triggers. And in most cases you'll find yourself combining old tricks with new stuff. For example: double floors.

[guru]

I'm fine with the lindef referencing secotr on both sides solution and as I'm creating a wad for zdoom compatibility doesn't really matter to me here (it does with other maps, though).

one interesting thing I found out: it looks like those invisible stair sectors are interpreted as a suare sector. sectors in shape of a U for example still raise the players height when ´not entered(eg. walking into the U from north does affect Z, even though you don't enter the sector. I avoided that problem by having the surrounding sector will the gap of the U sector. anyone got some definite info on that ?

[Cyb]

Mordeth said:

Not true. Depending on the situation you may want to use an 'old' vanilla doom trick in preference over the same effect done with Boom triggers. And in most cases you'll find yourself combining old tricks with new stuff. For example: double floors.

Well I don't see why you'd want to use a doom2.exe trick when a Boom one would work just as well, though you are correct about the double floors thing.

[Mordeth]

Cyb said:
Well I don't see why you'd want to use a doom2.exe trick when a Boom one would work just as well, though you are correct about the double floors thing.

Well, then imagine transparant doors. Sure, you can use the 242-trigger but what if you want to tag multiple doors with the same trigger but all with different floor/ceiling heights? The "push-through" flag to stack triggers is not always a solution, especially when working with non-player activated stuff.

I do agree with you that, when I have the choice, I will use Boom features over vanilla Doom tricks.

[Cyb]

Damnit, I concede, now finish ep2 and 3 :P

(joke btw, please don't ban me! :P)