Stealing textures from other wads?

[Lavarn]

I'm just starting to make maps so I don't know all the rules and stuff. I noticed that a lot of the textures used in other wads look a lot better than the default ones. How do people generally feel about using (stealing) textures from other wads?
I looked at some of the text files for some of the other wads I have, and many of them say stuff about not copying the levels (which seems obvious to me), but very few mention anything about the textures and graphics used. Of course this doesn't necessarily mean you can start taking whatever you want...is there any sort of general rule about this? Thanks for any info.

[Mordeth]

You don't have to steal. There are several texture packs available you can use freely, as long as you give credit. Hightmare's texture packs for example, or the GothicDM ones.

[Shaviro]

heh.... hightmare?

[Torn]

Shaviro said:

heh.... hightmare?

heh...

Well, you could look at afterglow's site, he has a few texture wads there, like nightmare's, etc...

[ReX]

Lavarn said:

Of course this doesn't necessarily mean you can start taking whatever you want...is there any sort of general rule about this?

Mordeth points out that many excellent texture packs are available for people to use freely, so long as proper credit is given. In other instances, unless the textures have been created or modified by the wad author or someone else in another wad or resource file, those textures are probably from some commercially available game. In such cases, you can either:

1. Extract the resources of the other game yourself.
2. Contact the wad author and ask for permission.
3. Borrow the textures and give gredit to the wad author.

[Doom_Dude]

If you have a way of contacting the author and you ask nicely, most times they'll alow you to use thier textures without having to steal anything. Most authors have a web site / email address in thier txt file so getting in contact isn't that difficult in most cases..

[Cyb]

It's funny how a lot of the free texture packs are all based on existing Doom, Heretic or Hexen textures (pretty much all of the GothicDM/2 ones, the majority of Nick's) yet in their text files there is not one single mention of that, however they wish for credit for 'their' textures. I just find stuff like that amusing.

[Fredrik]

Cyb: yeah...

[NiGHTMARE]

Err, actually all of the text files which accompany my texture wads do say that ID's textures were used as a base. So there.

BTW Fredrik, I hope you realise the RTC-3057 demo's text file doesn't credit ID for the textures which you based many of the RTC textures on either ;)

[Cyb]

Heh, sorry Nick, I was mainly refering to the GothicDM textures and you name sorta got stuck in there. My point still remains tho, for that and lots of other wads (my own included, though I usually give credit).

[Fletcher`]

Give credit where credit is due. I serously doubt anyone in the Doom community (note I said DOOM community, not just DW) would mind if you used their textures. After all, are we getting paid to do this? :P

[Lavarn]

Just to give an example, in the level that I'm designing right now, I used some textures from STRAIN (my favorite wad) and I even want to use some of the enemies like the small cyberdemon that doesn't take like 3000 hits to kill. I guess there are 3 options I was considering:
1. Go ahead and use the stuff and give them credit for all the stuff I used in the text file (this would be best for me, but simply giving credit doesn't mean you aren't stealing).
2. Ask for permission to use the stuff, but this will be hard to do because I think the team that made STRAIN no longer exists.
3. Don't use the stuff and just use the original doom stuff (this would be ok too but I think the level could look a lot cooler with the textures).

Also, maybe the link is right in front of me...but I can't find where to get these texture packs that everyone can use (as long as they give credit). Is it on this site?

[NiGHTMARE]

http://www.doomworld.com/afterglow/textures.shtml

[myk]

I think that most WADs, especially the older ones, mention only the levels in the copyrights because originally resource modificatons were rare, and the template talked about "levels" and not "resources" and whatnot. I'd personally take such statements as applicable to the whole WAD unless it's obvious that it's not the case (i.e., there's specific indications pertaining to the resources.) Also, early works often included ripped materials (not that recent ones don't) and the WAD authors probably had no clue as to the copyright status of what they were using (or when they did, they ignored it.) In those cases it's best to try to find the original sources or leave the stuff alone.

As for giving credit, it is probably better if the base for any resources is indicated, but something based on id stuff is obviously identifiable, while if you base resources on some add-on (or a game from another company... though I've never liked this kind of ripping too much) it is much more likely that the add-on will be unknown to the user.

The best way to give credit is to include the name of the author, the WAD it's from, as well as a link; just like you give credit in a book giving the author, the title, and the publisher. That makes finding the original work much easier.

[Grazza]

Basically, if someone makes something, then it is their copyright. If you want to use it in some way, then you need their permission, if it hasn't already been granted by a blanket statement.

If you want to try contacting the STRAIN team, then I'd guess Adam Windsor, Bjorn Hermans and Mark Klem would be the easiest to contact.

One way you could (I'm fairly sure) use the STRAIN resources while being on totally firm ground legally and ethically is to make a wad for use together with STRAIN. Your wad wouldn't contain any of the STRAIN resources; people would run it together with STRAIN:
Strnhack -file strain.wad yourwad.wad
or
Zdoom -file strain.wad yourwad.wad -deh strain.deh
etc.

BTW, I remember some claims that STRAIN included some textures ripped from other projects, but haven't verified that myself.

[NiGHTMARE]

Many of STRAIN's textures were first used in Dystopia 3, but they were brought over Adelusion who co-authored Dystopia, 3 so that's okay.

However, what's not so okay is the fact that a lot of these textures are actually from the game Dark Forces, but absolutely no credit is given for this (in either STRAIN or Dystopia 3).

[Little Faith]

Basically here's the rules as I see them.


ASK and GIVE CREDIT!


Well, first take a look at the accompanying text file (if any) it will often though far from always have some information about what you are allowed to rip. Often this is anything but the level, but you should check anyways.

Maybe there will be some credits to those who have originally made the textures or the wad they were ripped from. Ask them or sniff up info on the relevant wads.


Lastly, give credit! Firstly it's good behaviour. You are utilising their work so the least you could do is make some noise for them.

Giving credit also serves another purpourse. It will make it easier for other wadsters to know where the textures originated from so they know who to ask permission from when ripping.

[Lavarn]

Hmmm...I'm getting a lot of mixed answers hehe...
I don't know, most of the stuff I'm using from other wads is not necessary but just makes it look better in my opinion (though I MUST have a darker sky texture than the default). It wouldn't make sense to spend time trying to get permission and stuff when there's only a couple textures in question. It's very common for me to get a cool idea for a level by playing another wad, but a lot of time it requires using the stuff in that wad in order to create the same effect. Things like the enemies in strain, trees in mordeth, some textures from eternal, sounds from osiris etc...all seem to have potential to create many more cool effects. I guess if I'm unsure whether I can use something, I'll try to do without it.

[myk]

Read carefully, you did not get a mixed answer. Everyone recommended that you should have permission (either in the text file, or from the author directly.)

It's paramount for us to respect each other's requests if we want to have a decent community, lasting collections of WADs, and the assurance that our add-ons will not be misused: Think about it, the WADs we make are available openly for free, so the only way they will be respected is if we agree to accept whatever permissions the authors give or refuse.