Classic Doom - New Update on Steam

[Edward850]

10 minutes ago, Muusi said:

Ah yeah of course but even without the reverb the audio sounds great.

It wouldn't be the same, though. The whole point of the PSX audio is the reverb.

[Lollie]

Quicky: In DOOM, IDMUS doesn't account for numbers starting with 0, causing a hard crash.

[bobbie424242]

25 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

PSX and Doom64 has audio reverb with 2 environments, big and small rooms.

 

Unfortunately none of us seem to have any kind of input latency, your issue is system specific. If you can figure out what in your system is introducing the issue, we'll have something to investigate.

 

I did some more tests switching between gzdoom and the remaster, focusing only on strafing. In the remaster the doomguy seems to have more inertia in strafing, as if he weighted a bit more (I think that's what some players describe as "floaty"). I would not characterize it as keyboard input lag, or wrong, just different. It is perfectly playable and you can get used to it in no time. The same "inertia" is present going forward/backwards. This difference just jumped at me after hours of playing gzdoom. I also need to compare with other source ports to check how they behave.

As for mouse input, after more comparison, it feels a bit more snappy in gzdoom but it could be placebo. Again, if there is a difference, it cannot be characterized as mouse input lag (which is obvious when it happens and it does with some combination of settings in the remaster, notably vsync on).

Another thing I noticed is that the same FOV value give different results in gzdoom and the remaster. Again not necessarily a bug or anything, just an observation. probably due to the very different renderers.

Finally, I'd really like to understand why in the remaster mouse sensitivity is linked to cl_engineFPS.

Edited August 11 by bobbie424242

[Trov]

GZDoom's FOV uses the 'Source Engine' meaning, which is the horizontal FOV of a 4:3 area in the center of your screen, and the actual FOV being wider in widescreen (for instance: FOV 90 is actually about 106 on a 16:9 display)

Nightdive Doom uses Vertical FOV instead, which has a real value not affected by widescreen-ness.

 

 

I agree that mouse movement should never be scaled by time. If a mouse is sampled more often then the distance it moved since the last sample is already inherently proportionally smaller.

[Christopher Brown]

22 minutes ago, Devalaous said:

 

It would generally be better overall if people reconfigured their wads with this port's features in mind first instead of blindly uploading. Stuff like adding UMAPINFO and the port specific lumps. If this stuff was required to even upload in the first place, the piles of crap being uploaded in droves would lessen, as there would be more effort involved to get them upload-viable

 

Agreed, but I was also thinking along the lines that the lack of silent teleporters and the issues with monster drop-offs in vanilla-compat sets are probably going to be addressed in some form.

[Rexen²]

I hope this gets fix in the future but I don't like how when browsering mods, it doesn't remember what page you are on when you exit the page for a mod.

[Edward850]

9 minutes ago, bobbie424242 said:

I did some more tests switching between gzdoom and the remaster, focusing only on strafing. In the remaster the doomguy seems to have more inertia in strafing, as if he weighted a bit more (I think that's what some players describe as "floaty"). I would not characterize it as keyboard input lag, or wrong, just different.

We have demo compatibility and does objectively have the same movement as vanilla doom. I can't do anything with this information, sorry.

 

I almost wonder if gzdoom is the one that's changed.

[GibFrag]

If only we could see these prototypes some of the stuff in the id vault is from and toy around with the prerelease builds that haven’t already surfaced online. 

[Trov]

23 minutes ago, Christopher Brown said:

 

Agreed, but I was also thinking along the lines that the lack of silent teleporters and the issues with monster drop-offs in vanilla-compat sets are probably going to be addressed in some form.

Has monster dropoffs been confirmed to happen in vanilla/limitremoving wads? I know it has been reported in boom/mbf wads (but it is also part of mbf21 complevel in PrBoom/DSDA I believe)

 

EDIT: there are multiple methods of 'things falling over ledges': monsters being shot off of ledges, monsters walking off ledges on their own, and non-living things falling off ledges they are hanging over. We should be careful about this distinction in further analysis.

 

According to PrBoom/DSDA/MBF21 spec:

 

Vanilla/Limit Removing:

Monsters do not get shot off ledges (comp_ledgeblock): YES

Monsters do not walk off ledges (comp_falloff): YES

Non-living things do not topple over ledges (comp_dropoff): YES

 

Boom (cl9):

Monsters do not get shot off ledges (comp_ledgeblock): NO

Monsters do not walk off ledges (comp_falloff): YES

Non-living things do not topple over ledges (comp_dropoff): YES

 

MBF complevel:

Monsters do not get shot off ledges (comp_ledgeblock): NO

Monsters do not walk off ledges (comp_falloff): YES

Non-living things do not topple over ledges (comp_dropoff): NO

 

MBF21 complevel:

Monsters do not get shot off ledges (comp_ledgeblock): YES

Monsters do not walk off ledges (comp_falloff): NO

Non-living things do not topple over ledges (comp_dropoff): NO

 

MBF and MBF21 are tricky because some of these options don't actually exist or are combined in MBF/Woof, and the options were purely PrBoom additions. I will have to do further analysis.

 

Maybe I can make a test wad to try all these cases in Nightdive Doom's limitremoving, complevel9, mbf, and mbf21 'executable' levels.

Edited August 11 by Trov

[ItsPower303]

The mod uploader needs to be scrapped, imo. There is literally already a thing for this that exists, works great, and does not contain plagarism that isn't being moderated or dealt with at all. There is serious copyright and content violation potential here that will eventually be exploited, it is a question of when. "Just report it lol" is a ludicrous way of dealing with this.

[giwake]

17 minutes ago, ItsPower303 said:

The mod uploader needs to be scrapped, imo. There is literally already a thing for this that exists, works great, and does not contain plagarism that isn't being moderated or dealt with at all. There is serious copyright and content violation potential here that will eventually be exploited, it is a question of when. "Just report it lol" is a ludicrous way of dealing with this.

Seconding this. It's impossible to fight back against the constant deluge of mods being uploaded. The pre-selected mod option was pretty decent and I think this new method is a mess.

What about modders who can't report uploads of their work because they're dead? Why is the only way of taking down a mod "Just report it"? Can I impersonate someone with the intent of taking down mods? It's a logistical mess and I think it's been handled quite poorly. Maybe something like a browser for the IDGames archive would have been better.

[Shepardus]

I don't think turning the WAD downloader into an /idgames frontend would be a good idea; that would place the archive under a lot of additional pressure and scrutiny, and I wouldn't wish that upon its maintainers.

[Edward850]

7 minutes ago, giwake said:

Maybe something like a browser for the IDGames archive would have been better. 

Can't browse idgames; it's entirely a 3rd party system, a lot of the content on it won't even work, and it's primary mirror is an unsecure FTP. It's 3/3 on being a no go for consoles.

[giwake]

3 minutes ago, Shepardus said:

I don't think turning the WAD downloader into an /idgames frontend would be a good idea; that would place the archive under a lot of additional pressure and scrutiny, and I wouldn't wish that upon its maintainers.

Good point. Maybe just scrap or heavily rework the whole idea of a Workshop-style mod place as it's probably more trouble than it's worth.

[ItsPower303]

Just now, Edward850 said:

Can't browse idgames; it's entirely a 3rd party system, a lot of the content on it won't even work, and it's primary mirror is an unsecure FTP.

A lot of the content on the mod browser doesn't work either!

[Edward850]

2 minutes ago, ItsPower303 said:

A lot of the content on the mod browser doesn't work either!

There's some kind of weird thing people are using to bypass the upload check. However everyone is at QuakeCon. It's a solvable problem.

 

Ultimately the erroneous stuff can be deleted. Idgames cannot be.

[S3M_XM]

Oh good, they actually put the yellow key in TNT MAP31 in single player. If anyone remembers that infamous oversight.

[Midway64]

3 minutes ago, S3M_XM said:

Oh good, they actually put the yellow key in TNT MAP31 in single player. If anyone remembers that infamous oversight.

The TNT.WAD used in the Remaster is probably based off the Anthology release of the game, which GOG (as the goats they are) researched about and included on their release of DOSBox Doom.

Pretty nice, I must say.

[Devalaous]

8 minutes ago, S3M_XM said:

Oh good, they actually put the yellow key in TNT MAP31 in single player. If anyone remembers that infamous oversight.

 

But did they fix the broken shotgun guys later on? Likely not.

[Dweller Dark]

I think the WAD uploader would work better if it was more restricted to mappers than just anyone, and had some sort of verification process. Something between what Unity Doom had and what the current port does now that ensures the WADs uploaded will function and the person uploading it is trustworthy. Not to mention more community-made WADs without having to wait months between them.

[scalliano]

 

Damn, I feel old.

[RichardDS90]

1 minute ago, scalliano said:

 

Damn, I feel old.

I saw that on a Facebook group, the only reaction I could give was Matt Damon aging.

[DoomAlmostHadReloading1993]

1 minute ago, scalliano said:

 

Damn, I feel old.

I remember when bait on steam community hubs used to be believable 

[giwake]

Eh, I think it's entirely believable. Most game-players nowadays won't know what DOS is because they've never really had to interact with it. It's not super-important for Doom either.

[Donowa]

2 hours ago, Panzermann11 said:

@Edward850

I already asked this before, but just in case I'll ask this again so hopefully I'll get a response: is there any chance some of the unused stuff could be reimplemented to the game, like what was done for Quake 2 and ROTT, such as the 8 rotation sprites? If not, then I can understand, compatibility for mods and all.

the unused monsters are in the legacy of rust campaign (the beta lost soul and the weird face cloud thing)

[GooberMan]

The full 8 rotations is very definitely a tricky one. The code doesn't care, it'll just handle it - but any PWAD with replacement sprites will immediately show the new rotations of the old sprites.

 

It'll require some thinking to see if there's a solution that'll just slide ride in and not break 31 years of content.

[Midway64]

1 minute ago, GooberMan said:

It'll require some thinking to see if there's a solution that'll just slide ride in and not break 31 years of content.

Maybe something along the lines of this:

 

8-sprite rotations are implemented into vanilla, and are used accordingly with any vanilla WADs.

But if a WAD replaces sprite lumps that have rotations, the game goes into a compatibility mode, disabling the extra rotations.

As for Dehacked modifications, that's something beyond me and don't have any ideas at the moment.

 

Just throwing in my two cents, if there's a problem I missed, I stand corrected.

[S3M_XM]

37 minutes ago, Devalaous said:

But did they fix the broken shotgun guys later on? Likely not.

 

Unfortunately, no.

[Panzermann11]

14 minutes ago, Donowa said:

the unused monsters are in the legacy of rust campaign (the beta lost soul and the weird face cloud thing)

Yes, I'm aware of that.

Just now, Midway64 said:

Maybe something along the lines of this:

 

8-sprite rotations are implemented into vanilla, and are used accordingly with any vanilla WADs.

But if a WAD replaces sprite lumps that have rotations, the game goes into a compatibility mode, disabling the extra rotations.

As for Dehacked modifications, that's something beyond me and don't have any ideas at the moment.

 

Just throwing in my two cents, if there's a problem I missed, I stand corrected.

Exactly what I was thinking!

[Revenant100]

12 minutes ago, GooberMan said:

The full 8 rotations is very definitely a tricky one. The code doesn't care, it'll just handle it - but any PWAD with replacement sprites will immediately show the new rotations of the old sprites.

Unless this release has somehow managed to break the code, no it wouldn't. Just load the 8-sided sprites as a PWAD on top of the IWADs under any other PWADs that are to be loaded. Any non-8-sided replacement sprites will be named such that the engine knows to mirror them, thus fully overriding any 8-sided sprites under them. There are WADs out there that have included 8-sided sprites with the full knowledge of and support for additional PWADs containing non-8-sided sprites loaded on top intended to override them for over a decade now, and the engine handles them just fine.

Edited August 11 by Revenant100