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AtimZarr1

Classic Doom - New Update on Steam

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Is it just me or does using modded IWAD files stops you from finding multiplayer games? I am trying make patches that restores things from the original releases of Doom back into the KEX Engine remaster (similarly to the Unity port) and without the modifications I can see all the active lobbies in the servers going on, but after the modifications, the number of lobbies are significantly lower than stock WAD files.

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4 hours ago, 2mg said:

 

What about ID24, or some Kex under the hood magix?

Nope, nothing. This is still Doom under the hood.

 

3 hours ago, 2mg said:

If not, which was intended/prevalent in the 90s, the original FM or DMX FM? 

Original is the original opl fm. DMX is a FM set made by @Csonicgo.

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1 hour ago, AmethystViper said:

Is it just me or does using modded IWAD files stops you from finding multiplayer games?

Nope, quite intentional. Resources are obviously hashed to make sure you're loading the same maps, standard cheat and code sanity protection stuff.

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Been listening to Hulshult's new tracks in the updated IDKFA and damn, they are sweet.

Speaking of music, the track for e1m2 in Legacy of Rust is living rent free in my head. What a tune. Great map too. Gonna make some time to play more shortly!

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@Edward850 i'd love to know: are the sound fx not playing issues being resolved/looked at ?

Im on Switch and PS5 and apart from that everything has been outstanding so thanks to your whole team - I played multiplayer co-op with my entire family at the weekend: never thought I'd do that!!! 🤣
 

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On 8/9/2024 at 11:00 AM, DeetOpianSky said:
  Reveal hidden contents

The newly released episode is using UMAPINFO, OPTIONS and COMPLVL lumps as well as some I haven't seen before SKYDEF, SBARDEF, XWINTER0, XWINTER1, etc. ah the XWINTERX are defined in the UMAPINFO as intermission animations, along with some kex exclusive keys such as kex_finishedtaskid.
Some of the other lumps are uncompiled scripts, so there is some functionality there too.
As far as reading additional formats that would be nice to know.
The options lump is just comp_falloff 1 with a few comments.

There's also a resources / demo map in slot 99 featuring all the new stuffs, map map99 in console.


 

Also note you cannot bind "turn left" or "turn right" keys either.

Sucks for laptops.

 

Unrelated too, there's now this UMAPINFO lump required for PWADs?

For some reason when you upload a mod, if there are any replacement maps, then the game refuses to upload and says you need a UMAPINFO definition. Even if you the titles, skies to be the same as the base IWAD.

 

Weird, makes porting my Unofficial IWAD patch a bit troublesome.

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Posted (edited)

Are there any plans to allow playing multiplayer with PWADs downloaded from the ingame browser (unless there already is some way to which I am currently oblivious and if that's the case then I apologize)?

Edited by yakaru

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Posted (edited)

So I've just come across a revelation.. and I really do hope this is fixed or changed, because how it is... is very bad and basically ensures that none of my wads will work correctly in the new port.

 

So in the DoomWiki documentation for GAMECONF, it has this line:

Quote

GAMECONF forms a core part of how the feature level of a session is determined. While it is considered the authoritative way for how to set a feature level for the session, an analysis path to determine the true feature set exists.

 

This is bad... very bad... Essentially if a mapper specifies that they want "limitremoving" in GAMECONF, or "vanilla" in COMPLVL, it currently doesn't matter in this port. Because if there's any feature above that, the port ignores those options and bumps up complevel.

 

This is a problem for vanilla mappers like me that enact boom/mbf fixes to maps to get them to work in ZDoom ports that may not support the same features.

 

When I, and other mappers, use COMPLVL... it isn't a suggestion. We test it to work on that specific complevel, and it does and will break on ones above. GAMECONF and/or COMPLVL should not stack in the determination of a complevel... They should actually determine the complevel, as that's the whole point of why they exist. If there's other checks in tandem, then there's literally no reason for them to exist.

 

The main issue here is that in my tests with "Hell Revealations", a vanilla wad, this port will always bump up the compatibility to MBF, regardless of the existence of either or even both GAMECONF or COMPLVL (set to "limitremoving" and "vanilla" respectively). Keep in mind, this wad was tested and works completely fine in DOS Doom. I know that it's reading other lumps to determine the complevel, as I found that specifically MAP02 causes the wad to bump up to MBF... regardless of GAMECONF and COMPLVL.

 

We need one (or preferably both) lump(s) to be fully authoritative.

 

The second thing I'm not a fan of is that in the "check", it reads GAMECONF, DEHACKED, and then COMPLVL. For the same reason above, COMPLVL should be the second read lump instead of DEHACKED, since many Vanilla mappers add boom dehacked features like [PARS] and [STRINGS].

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29 minutes ago, zigg1zagg1 said:

-option to move forward and back with the mouse

I think someone mentioned this had been removed from the "Doom Classic" codebase Id and the late Nerve had been using for all their console ports at some point between 2004 and the present.

 

29 minutes ago, zigg1zagg1 said:

It would also be nice to have some confirmation on if its ok to redistribute the new assets used in this version, the new textures in the unity port were released under a limited license:

https://bethesda.net/en/game/doom-widescreen-mods

having the new id vault textures released in a similar way would be great

Realistically, people are just gonna treat the new and new-old assets the same way they've treated the 1993 assets, which is to say, they're just gonna do whatever. Maybe a deal similar to the widescreen stuff will happen, but IIRC that was a bit of a weird situation. Hope springs eternal, but pragmatism sits in the corner waiting for its moment in the sun.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Arsinikk said:

This is a problem for vanilla mappers like me that enact boom/mbf fixes to maps to get them to work in ZDoom ports that may not support the same features.

Can you just delete the ZDoom/Boom specific stuff for the Nightdive version of your wad?

When downloaded by the game it gets stored in an obscure place with an obscure name so I don't really see anybody copying it out of the Betheszone to play it in GZDoom or whatever.

 

BEX dehacked string stuff does not seem to trigger 'Boom' detection.

 

There is a thread in Doom Editing specifically about 'ID24' which the GAMECONF stuff is a part of where you might want to discuss this.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Trov said:

Can you just delete the ZDoom/Boom specific stuff for the Nightdive version of your wad?

I mean technically yes... But I'd have to relaunch the game and go map-by-map for every wad to see what maps trigger this detection or not.

 

Although I'm not the only mapper that does this... Plus it's quite possible that many vanilla community projects may have a random boom line somewhere that just bumps up the compatibility for no reason, breaking the rest of the maps.

 

Something that I didn't even mention earlier is that OPTIONS can be used for Eternity Engine compatibility (as it is the only way to force options in that port). Although I will admit that may be a bit easier to fix for just the Nightdive version (aka deleting it).

 

I think my point still stands that if it just read GAMECONF and COMPLVL by themselves (if they exist and ignore the other checks), then none of this messing around would have to occur. Plus all maps that had the right complevel set would just work as intended. COMPLVL is still a relatively new lump, and when it's used, it's used for a specific purpose. Again if it reads everything for a check, COMPLVL and GAMECONF are literally useless.

 

Keep in mind, I don't necessarily have a problem with the autodetection. I actually think it's a good idea for wads that don't specify anything... But I think it is a huge problem when I specify compatibility, and the port completely ignores it. I know my own wads more than the port does.

 

25 minutes ago, Trov said:

BEX dehacked string stuff does not seem to trigger 'Boom' detection.

Well that's a bit interesting. I'll be honest that I'm not clear on what it does read, although I can definitely seen certain boom features being read from this. I still think it's better for COMPLVL to be higher in the hierarchy.

 

25 minutes ago, Trov said:

There is a thread in Doom Editing specifically about 'ID24' which the GAMECONF stuff is a part of where you might want to discuss this.

I'll admit I wasn't sure exactly where to put this. I did see the ID24 thread, but since I'm talking specifically about the Nightdive port in addition to COMPLVL behaviour, I think this is the best place to put it.

 

I debated posting this in the bug thread... But I don't exactly think this is a bug, but rather intentional... However I think that the current way the port determines compatibility is flawed and needs some readjusting.

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On 8/11/2024 at 7:43 AM, Pixel Fiend said:

Why does the movement feel so odd compared to playing on Woof? I can't get used to it for some reason.


I believe it’s caused by the Vulcan renderer. I went into the display/video settings and switched the renderer from Vulcan to D3D11. After that, movement and mouse responsiveness felt perfect for me. 

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Skimming through this thread just now, I have to say I do not see any of this as good news. All I'm seeing instead is the shadow of the vulture that is Microsoft circling closer and closer around this community.

 

I hope I'm overreacting. Oh well.

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Is SR50 permanently enabled in this port? That seems like a major change to the core gameplay if the player gets to zoom around faster than intended through normal movement. What is the rationale for this kind of change?

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9 hours ago, Nixx said:

 

You can skip it with the launch parameter -skipmovies (like Doom64)

 

You are a god amongst men. I didn't even think to try since there's no "movies" this time around.Thank you!

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25 minutes ago, Tiramisu said:

I hope I'm overreacting. Oh well.

Huge overreaction. As always because everyone want official ports to work like their preferred source port. The port works fine aside from some bugs.

 

Some bugs:

1) monsters get stuck after resurrection by archviles.

2) monsters target voodoo dolls after loading save Games.

3)game sometimes crashing when starting a new game in TNT.

4) final level in master levels Mephistos mausoleum does not enable monster telefragging vs icon sin so monsters get stuck in player. Although this was an oversight in the map because it was map07 before.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Cruduxy Pegg said:

2) monsters target voodoo dolls after loading save Games.

Good find! I encountered that but had no idea what caused it.

There is a Nightdive Doom bugs thread, please turn in your unpaid QA homework there.

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On 8/10/2024 at 4:54 PM, Edward850 said:

Doom never actually had this, only deathmatch did. I'm mulling over if it's possible to do item instancing instead which would be a better option and fit the game mode more.

 

I guess I was thinking of modern source-ports where coop has options to enable that. It helps when there are many players, or the wad is being played on UV and players are dying left and right. And for some reason it's fun running back and stocking up after a fight, knowing the armor will be there again, etc. Would it be easy to implement an option for hosts to turn this on?

 

instancing would be neat. That would mean all players see there own 'single-player' set of items and ammo?

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On 8/10/2024 at 12:41 AM, Reigada said:

image.png.54716af368856c533e84393c24007e9e.png

so doom 1 was replaced, but doom 2 is still here, thats odd


yea I went and uninstalled and hid my separate Doom 2, Master Levels and Final Doom instals on Steam, at this point they're just clutter. 

btw I've got one question to ask, are the new weapons possible to use alongside the plasmagun and bfg? I've noticed that in LoR they appear in slots 6 and 8/7 and 9 respectively, as if mindful of the Plasmagun and BFG. I know there is no plasmagun and BFG in LoR itself, but is it possible to have both sets of weapons in one wad? Is there a HUD that accounts for both cells and fuel?

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7 minutes ago, Xfing said:


yea I went and uninstalled and hid my separate Doom 2, Master Levels and Final Doom instals on Steam, at this point they're just clutter. 

btw I've got one question to ask, are the new weapons possible to use alongside the plasmagun and bfg? I've noticed that in LoR they appear in slots 6 and 8/7 and 9 respectively, as if mindful of the Plasmagun and BFG. I know there is no plasmagun and BFG in LoR itself, but is it possible to have both sets of weapons in one wad? Is there a HUD that accounts for both cells and fuel?

Not yet. I believe this is part of the ID24 stuff (There's assets etc. for a custom HUD with new elements for additional weapon slots and ammo type) but it's not quite in place yet.

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7 hours ago, Arsinikk said:

So I've just come across a revelation.. and I really do hope this is fixed or changed, because how it is... is very bad and basically ensures that none of my wads will work correctly in the new port.

 

So in the DoomWiki documentation for GAMECONF, it has this line:

Just chiming in here and say this:

Most, if not all what is on the wiki regarding ID24 is based on spec 0.99.1. Heck, its converted practically wholesale (To me a testament of how good the documentation is. As a wiki editor, its great not having to reinvent the wheel)

 

However the spec is also not finished and if anything regarding the various threads is to come by, is that quite a few edits are going to take place before the finalized 1.0 is out.

 

In that regard, given your history with pushing the limits, you may best mention this to Xaser/Goober in private or perhaps even offer up your (private) feedback on it.

 

Your work is a good case to be glossed over because if your work can get support, then it means everyone else that isn't pushing the limit can do so aswell.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Kinsie said:

Not yet. I believe this is part of the ID24 stuff (There's assets etc. for a custom HUD with new elements for additional weapon slots and ammo type) but it's not quite in place yet.


Interesting, so you make it sound like it's coming. That would practically be tantamount to the first official expansion over Doom 2, with 2 new weapons and 6 new monsters. Pretty stoked, I'd definitely not mind seeing future Megawads with all this new content, it definitely strikes different when there's official sanctioning on the new assets <3

Edited by Xfing

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1 hour ago, Xfing said:

btw I've got one question to ask, are the new weapons possible to use alongside the plasmagun and bfg? I've noticed that in LoR they appear in slots 6 and 8/7 and 9 respectively, as if mindful of the Plasmagun and BFG. I know there is no plasmagun and BFG in LoR itself, but is it possible to have both sets of weapons in one wad? Is there a HUD that accounts for both cells and fuel?

I don't think it is possible at the moment; but it is the intent. However, in LoR itself, the weapons and other actors are implemented with a DEHACKED lump following the MBF21 standard (you can look at the DECOHACK source, which thankfully was provided), so they're replacement in that PWAD.

 

An update to actual full ID24 standard (allowing them to no longer be replacements) will probably happen; things were rushed to meet the QuakeCon deadline.

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7 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

Is SR50 permanently enabled in this port? That seems like a major change to the core gameplay if the player gets to zoom around faster than intended through normal movement. What is the rationale for this kind of change?

Straferunning felt different somehow, but it might just be placebo. When recording a demo while straferunning, I would see SL40 and SR40, no 50s. Then, in case it was just a demo-only thing, I made a quick test map with two pads placed perfectly diagonally from one another, and when starting to straferun at the same time, I would end up short of the pad. So it doesn't seem like any changes were made on that front. I even tried running the wad with LoR just in case something changed there, but it doesn't seem like that

 

(one side effect of not having turning keys and a strafe toggle is that it's no longer possible to SR50 at all, then)

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The last deathmatch game I played, it was in a map that I am definitely sure was ported from UDM3 MAP01, or at least heavily inspired by it, which is really cool btw. Are there any other deathmatch maps that were released here that resemble any other well known mapsets like anything from DWANGO5 or any of the other UDM series maps? Are there any maps that resemble anything from Greenwar?

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Posted (edited)

Well, logged in for the first time in a long while just to post this...

 

Thanks for making Doom 2 multiplayer a thing again! Even if it's only going to last for a little while...

 

My biggest complaints so far:

 

 - no strafe on button, hence no strafe50 (also i'm just kind of used to strafing from the mouse occasionally regardless of the speed benefit), sucks in dm in general and also makes it difficult to exit doom2 map7 if the 667 tagged sector rises twice (due to two last arachnotrons being killed in quick succession)
 - no coop spy functionality (it's not there on f12, nowhere in the menus to be found either it seems)
 - no way to filter lobbies by game mode and ping in browser
 - player ping times aren't displayed in the in-game scoreboard (does someone really suck or do they just have lots of latency to deal with? or alternatively: wow someone is really doing that well with 200msecs of lag?)
 - apparently no way to select the original "deathmatch 1" rules when creating a dm lobby (weapons stay, all other items are one use only), all serious 1v1 players used to mostly play this way
 - no way to use "deathmatch 2" or "altdeath" rules either (all items disappear and respawn later, including weapons), doom2 map11 used to be played this way a lot
 - weapon/ammo pickups on skill 5 (nightmare) don't give the expected amount of ammo (for example: only 16 shells from ssg, not 40)
 - arbitrarily limited map selection in deathmatch mode (okay it certainly already includes all the best maps from iwads, but doom2 map13 and map18 dm used to be a thing, map32 too i think)
 - silent BFG trick in dm not possible anymore :(

 

I also wish there was a way to somehow specify I'm looking for more serious players only for a 1v1 match or coop session when creating a lobby, like a freeform message or something I could type in which would be visible in the browser. Yes, I know I could create a private lobby and then give the room code to someone I know will stick to the end of a 1v1 match and doesn't consider endless deaths and respawns a proper way to play coop (ie. prearrange a game), but if I need to do that, then where's the benefit vs. using any old source port or DOSBox?

 

Really, really wish there was a way to play all the old classic custom 1v1 maps maps such as d5m1, judas23_, ssl2 and king1... but that's probably not ever going to happen, right?

 

Automated ranked matchmaking for 1v1 would have been awesome, but there's probably not ever going to be a big enough pool of players for that to really work. :(

 

Sometimes sound effects don't play at all or cut off early where I'm pretty sure even vanilla with its 8 channel (and 1/mobj) limit would have played them fully.

 

Sometimes turning control from mouse starts kind of "jerking back" all the time, even in single player (so it shouldn't be a network prediction related problem). Exiting the map or otherwise restarting the game seems to fix it when it happens. I wonder if this is some sort of a Linux/Proton issue, or is happening because I capped the framerate to 35 using console commands? I can post a video clip of this happening if necessary.

 

Sprite clipping seems kind of off sometimes. In a coop game I missed a couple of rocket shots to the icon's brain in map30, and I'm pretty sure that I should have seen the rocket explode near the icon's brainhole cluing me into that I really did miss and it wasn't just the sound glitching out again, but it wasn't visible, it looked like the rocket just disappeared... I can post a video of this too if necessary. I still need to verify if it's not exactly the same in vanilla after all though...

 

(at least some of these must have been discussed already, but i'm not reading 40 pages right now...)

Edited by xttl : probably better to call d5m1, judas23_, ssl2, king1 "classic 1v1 maps" rather than "popular maps" ;)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lizardcommando said:

The last deathmatch game I played, it was in a map that I am definitely sure was ported from UDM3 MAP01, or at least heavily inspired by it, which is really cool btw. Are there any other deathmatch maps that were released here that resemble any other well known mapsets like anything from DWANGO5 or any of the other UDM series maps? Are there any maps that resemble anything from Greenwar?

See Rust's post

 

it's just a compilation pack with familiar maps.

 

Also for christ sake it's a new age, there's plenty of great content much better than dwango that has been published since, just look around it's not hard. Doomkid uploaded a bunch and even provided a list of (still somewhat dubious) wads that might entertain you. Really tired of people saying DWANGO DWANGO DWANGO like shit man those maps sucked ass back then and compared to modern shooters and modern maps sets they suck even huger amounts of ass. All getting people to play on dwango is going to do, other than the nostalgia gripped ancients and idiots duped into believing dwango is good, is drive people away saying man this sucks.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Lizardcommando said:

The last deathmatch game I played, it was in a map that I am definitely sure was ported from UDM3 MAP01, or at least heavily inspired by it, which is really cool btw. Are there any other deathmatch maps that were released here that resemble any other well known mapsets like anything from DWANGO5 or any of the other UDM series maps? Are there any maps that resemble anything from Greenwar?

 

There are some UDM maps that were remixed and included, as well as some other community fan favorites, like LexiMax's Eyedea or Chaindude's LazarusDM Map04! You'll even find some of RottKing's RottZone maps included deeper in the mapset, if the lobby lasts that long, haha. There was a concentrated effort to get multiplayer maps included and unfortunately part of the issue is that not all authors were able to be contacted or signed off on including their maps in the release, this included some older compilation sets like the Dwango series or Greenwar. Some others were unable to be adapted for the engine and format given the time required. Overall, a lot of inclusion or lack thereof was a time + legal issue.

 

However, we got 26 maps to jam on as of the time of this writing! I'm very happy that the community was able to contribute some maps for the release!

Edited by Xenaero

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10 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

Is SR50 permanently enabled in this port?

No.

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