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Captain Keen

LEGACY OF RUST - overall thoughts?

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3 hours ago, TMMMS said:

spirit drains is not the slaughter map that would be soul silo and also the brink

 

Ah, my mistake! Got my "spooky S-names" confused!

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Posted (edited)

m0fOuFH.png

ZBxr53d.png

 

I think I know why the track for E2M1 is called Bonk

Edited by Devalaous

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I've only started to play it (I'll be recording a full Roebloz Plays Doom WADs for it soon enough) and it is good so far, though really not worth paying full price to experience if you've committed the crime of not owning the Unity port.

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10 minutes ago, Roebloz said:

I've only started to play it (I'll be recording a full Roebloz Plays Doom WADs for it soon enough) and it is good so far, though really not worth paying full price to experience if you've committed the crime of not owning the Unity port.

It's not just Legacy of Rust you're paying 10 bucks for. It's a port that enables 16 player cross platform co-op and deathmatch between players on PC, Xbox One, Xbox Series, Playstation 4, Playstation 5, and Nintendo Switch with drop in/drop out netcode. It comes with a brand new soundtrack. It comes with The Ultimate Doom, Doom II, The Master Levels, No Rest for the Living, Final Doom, Sigil, and Legacy of Rust integrated into one package with the ability to switch between the games without closing the app. It comes with a new set of deathmatch levels. It has drastically improved controls for gamepad users. It has a mod selection menu built in.

 

And technically id released it before it was even finished. It will only get better with time. The Unity port alone is proof of that, because that thing was a disaster for MONTHS after launch.

 

And, the best part of all is that you don't have to choose between it and your favorite source port. You can fire up the Kex port and play some Knee Deep in the Dead online with your nephew on his Nintendo Switch, and then close it out and fire up The Golden Souls 2 on GZDoom.

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3 hours ago, Devalaous said:

m0fOuFH.png

ZBxr53d.png

 

I think I know why the track for E2M1 is called Bonk

Was he  just off center enough to not get telefragged when you teleported there?

 

3 hours ago, famicommander said:

It's not just Legacy of Rust you're paying 10 bucks for. It's a port that enables 16 player cross platform co-op and deathmatch between players on PC, Xbox One, Xbox Series, Playstation 4, Playstation 5, and Nintendo Switch with drop in/drop out netcode. It comes with a brand new soundtrack. It comes with The Ultimate Doom, Doom II, The Master Levels, No Rest for the Living, Final Doom, Sigil, and Legacy of Rust integrated into one package with the ability to switch between the games without closing the app. It comes with a new set of deathmatch levels. It has drastically improved controls for gamepad users. It has a mod selection menu built in.

You could add the vaults in your sales pitch. ;)

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1 minute ago, Gez said:

Was he  just off center enough to not get telefragged when you teleported there?

 

I leapt to his platform from the top where you first see him, and got him paralysed, and from there, BONKed him to death with the regular fist. Turns out you can hold RT and tab out of the game, and you'll keep punching while out of the focus! I did get to see his death while in focus. Now I can say ive technically punched a cyb to death with regular fist, without help from infighting.

 

When I found that teleporter that's meant to kill him, I was quite amused.

 

3 hours ago, Roebloz said:

the crime of not owning the Unity port.

 

I'm tired of seeing this. It's 'the crime of never once supporting the digital releases of the game, on any digital PC platform, over the many many *many* years its been available'

 

id's given free upgrades 5 or 6 times now in the last few years, that steam sale pack I bought forever ago for a couple of dollars just to have files for Quake 1 and 2 ports, and a copy of the Master Levels wads, sure has gotten me far.

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I just finished playing Legacy of Rust and I liked it a lot. Definitely one of my favourite WADs, although I haven't played a lot of them like some of you guys around here beside the official stuff.

I like that even it feels modern, still resembles classic Doom. The architecture has the perfect level of detail, not too complex but with lots of details and super well done. The new enemies and weapons are fun, the difficulty level in HMP is super appropriate and never felt unfair. And I love the music.

Lots of interesting fights, love that if forces you to use the new weapons.

 

10/10

Congrats to the authors!

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Finished E2M4 tonight, will have to finish it tomorrow.

E2M1: Initially very frustrating due to the ammo shortage and being constantly faced with overwhelming odds. Lots of cool stuff, like the friction lava that requires a secret rad suit to get through, and the weird little maze that reminded me of laser tag. Much of the map was ruined by the voodoo doll bug.

 

E2M2: Why is this so early!? It took me hour upon hours to get through it all, but it was very enjoyable despite that. Good use of all the new monsters up till this point, and I actually had to use the Incinerator a few times to get myself out of trouble

 

E2M3: Congratulations Gooberman, you now hold the record for the longest time ive ever spent trying to get to the secret level. All that stuff with the eyes had me confused and going in circles for hours. The map was almost fully ruined by the voodoo doll bug; since nearly every enemy on the map teleports in from ambushes, almost everything on the map was preoccupied hunting voodoo dolls.

 

E2M0: A fun combat puzzle by Xaser that doesnt seem like it was actually made for this, was there anything from LoR actually used here? (Aside from the map reward) I am so glad I got a backpack from this, ive alway despised mapsets that starve the backpack. It was fun once in NRFTL at launch, but everyone is doing it! I didnt bother 100%ing this one, felt against the spirit of the map. I'll 100% it whenever GZDoom has full support for the wad and I feel like replaying it.

 

E2M4: Uhhh, Echoes of Pain? More like Echoes of Internal Reaches. This level feels like Kaiser scavenged an old wad from his kaiser_[x].wad series, slapped a few LoR textures on it, and called it a day. There is nothing like the rest of LoR in here, and it feels old. Especially compared to E2M2, also by him. I still enjoyed the level, but ive fought arachnotrons and all them a million times, a few of them could have at LEAST been subbed out with Mindweavers. And no Vassagos at all? They are the titular monster behind the plot, they were everywhere in E2M2.

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17 hours ago, Devalaous said:

I'm tired of seeing this. It's 'the crime of never once supporting the digital releases of the game, on any digital PC platform, over the many many *many* years its been available'

 

id's given free upgrades 5 or 6 times now in the last few years, that steam sale pack I bought forever ago for a couple of dollars just to have files for Quake 1 and 2 ports, and a copy of the Master Levels wads, sure has gotten me far.

I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive about this, but it is annoying to have to pay for the same thing twice.

That being said, I did not intend on offensing anyone with my opinion, and I am sorry as it seems I have offended you (Or at least annoyed you) with it. Apologies.

 

And yes, I do know there's other features included in the Kex Port, (The level portal thing is really cool and reminds me of the old Super Mario Flash level portal in a way, though of course Nintendo had to go ahead and not include it on Switch) I was talking purely about Legacy of Rust, and how it's annoying that it's behind a paywall, nothing else.

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28 minutes ago, Roebloz said:

I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive about this, but it is annoying to have to pay for the same thing twice.

That being said, I did not intend on offensing anyone with my opinion, and I am sorry as it seems I have offended you (Or at least annoyed you) with it. Apologies.

 

And yes, I do know there's other features included in the Kex Port, (The level portal thing is really cool and reminds me of the old Super Mario Flash level portal in a way, though of course Nintendo had to go ahead and not include it on Switch) I was talking purely about Legacy of Rust, and how it's annoying that it's behind a paywall, nothing else.

Aren't you the guy trying to sell a new Super Nintendo port of Doom? And you're here complaining that people offering entirely new content are asking a small compensation from people who didn't already own the games on one of any number of digital platforms? 

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2 hours ago, Roebloz said:

I'm sorry if I came off as aggressive about this, but it is annoying to have to pay for the same thing twice.

That being said, I did not intend on offensing anyone I was talking purely about Legacy of Rust, and how it's annoying that it's behind a paywall, nothing else.

They gotta sweeten the deal somehow, is it not so similar to Thy Flesh Consumed being added to the SNES re-release?

 

A new mapping standard with 6 new monsters, and 2 new (albeit dehacked) weapons, and loads of new official textures is nothing to scoff at, and will be a huge boon to the modding community in my eyes. 10 dollars for that, along with everything else the game includes, is more than worth it in my opinion.

 

Also, this is just the world we live in now. Games are costing more and more to produce, and are taking much much longer to release. If that means regurgitating old games to make a profit, then we should be glad we're getting remasters with this much effort. A cynical trend like this could be executed WAY more cynically (ahem, BFG Edition ports)

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Dis Union looked familiar...

 

And yep, found it!

 

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Fucking LOL, the Vassago's flames can be squished into a bloody spine as if it was a monster. Thats it, its now canon; the Vassago is flinging spicy meat at the player. The one thing the demons feared.

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I've loved other retro re-release map packs. No Rest for the Living. Doom 64's Lost Episode. Dimension of the Machine, over on Quake. But I'm not feeling this one at all. It's crass that the "new monsters" are things id threw in the trash 30 years ago for being below their standards.

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The Rack, you can easily get a pretty good HOM going on at this wood and marble elevator, just between the starting area and the central crossroad courtyard thing with all the blood

rackhom.png

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1 hour ago, Splatter said:

It's crass that the "new monsters" are things id threw in the trash 30 years ago for being below their standards.

Except they’re not? The only one that maybe qualifies is the Mindweaver. Vassago is obviously totally new. The Ghoul uses the old Lost Soul sprites but has totally new behavior. No one knows what the Banshee sprites were intended for, but the suicide bomber attack is again totally new behavior. The Shock Trooper or whatever we’re calling it was clearly inspired by Scythe 2. The Fiend sprites are not my favorite but again it’s not a monster that was trashed thirty years ago.

 

Fun fact: Sandy Petersen himself said he felt Doom needed a low health flying pest enemy that fired projectiles - this is now realized in the Ghoul.

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Posted (edited)

Ive finished the expansion, and uninstalled the port as I have no more use for it unless the LoR/ID24 iwads get updated.

 

E2M5: Compared to what felt like Internal Reaches 5 in E2M4, this was far more of what I expect from a modernday Kaiser level. No complaints, was fun all the way throughout, and sadly, is the last level that can be called that. I wish I had more to say, but I just plain enjoyed this, beginning to end.

 

E2M6: The other level by a total newcomer, this level, like the other level not by Doomworld members, says 'fuck you' to the established theme and suddenly we are in a high tech facility that im assuming looks like something from a new Doom game, as the two new guys are from id and Machine Games, I don't remember who is who though. This is also where the gameplay diverges into much-hated and divisive tropes. Complaints have been loud about this and the following level, and for good reason. Even Plutonia and NRFTL doesnt pull off the kind of shit this and the following level do. It starts off okay, with a lot of shocktroopers, who I am guessing must be other UAC soldiers or something, given the ending text of the episode. Then it goes into 'fuck you' territory and stays there. The trap where archviles surround you after you pick up an invuln and blast you up into the sky like a pingpong ball bouncing up and down and around the room. I feel like the mapper was giggling like a kid at this, it just made me roll my eyes. You cant see a damn thing from both the invuln effect, the flames filling your screen, AND the constant bouncing. Very aggravating, and not funny at all.

 

It gets worse.

 

Afterward is a 8-shape room with a loop around toxic pools, and a middle bar section, and there is a truly dickish fight coming up in here. Three archviles guard the bar of the 8, and I had to reload a stupid amount of times to kill them without taking a blast, whoever said the calamity blade one-shots them reliably was bullshitting. You wont even HAVE it playing from pistol start. But then you unleash all hell and wonder what choices in life lead you to this punishment. I dont know HOW many revenants Kevin decided to summon in, but its multiple levels of 'too many'. I died about 80 times in here because all those revenants spawn all over the looping 'track' that your now stuck in, and they are ALL shooting homing missiles your way, and you WILL have them bang into your back for 80 damage while trying to dodge every other revenant on the loop while trying to blast them all. I dont know I would do this without the calamity blade, and even that missed a whole lot. I hated every moment of it.

 

After that was ANOTHER bullshit ambush, but this time the voodoo doll bug saved my ass so I got to wipe out yet more revenants and shocktroopers on my terms, before opening the way back to the hub room. Here is where you get the Calamity Blade if pistolstarting, and there is the ONE cool moment of the level, where the wall opens to reveal a wall of cacos, that will have almost all of them die to one shot of the charged Blade. Then you get a revenant rocket in the back, because of COURSE. Clearing out more shit thats just floodfilled a room, leads you to a neat-looking area outside of the nuke silo, and looks is all this area has; its gone full slaughtermap. all you'll use from now on till the end of the wad is the Calamity Blade, because someone wanted to throw away all good gameplay design to have the equivalent of a BFG rush map. Insane amount of imps all crammed into a little box? Check. Box of archviles? Check. Literal thick wall of vassagos? Check. At this point its no longer believable as a place in the Doom world, and its just 'A Doom Level'. You get a longass life ride and a neat sight, but then...you have to fight something like 8 cyberdemons at once in a tiny arena with a deathpit around it you can fall into/be knocked into. Shoving something like 10 cyberdemons into a room is what I expect a kid to do. Why couldnt this guy follow the established look, theme and gameplay of the previous maps for a cohesive episode?

 

E2M7: Xaser had to follow-up the above mess, and he quickly drags it back from the 'UAC silo' to the episode's general look, and initially he drags the gameplay back to normal. The Tyrant is introduced here in comically bad fashion, the wad has been FULL of regular cyberdemons that should have almost all been Tyrants, and suddenly we have a dramatic reveal of a...weaker cyberdemon, who is constantly laughed at for his weird looking head. This late in the wad, it doesnt work. The first one triggers boss actions, then you fight a bunch more, alongside a regular cyberdemon, then you (I assume) arm a bunch of nukes and the floor descends into a maze filled with vassagos in a neat fashion. Certainly better than Kevin's floodfill of a floor with Vassago Things, this feels organic by comparison. An archvile or two also hangs out in here. I didnt even kill everything, I was too jaded by the last map, and Scalliano's posts spoiled that I was going to get let down. Sure enough, in the next area you get a cool moemnt with giant missiles rising from the floor, like Hell to Pay, but sectors instead of sprites, and you fight a ton of Vassagos. The wad could have ended with this fight, I think most people would be satisfied. Maybe even one last fight with all the new monsters together. But...no. Xaser lets me down and opens a box floodfilled with archviles, which run out in every direction and revive all the vassagos, and bounce you around in the sky and kill you in seconds. Only this time, you dont get any invulns or health or anything. I only got through this thanks to the voodoo doll bug, they revive so much 1000 HP meat at a ridiculous rate, and the Blade was not killing them fast enough, and with so little health to recover from the inevitable blasts as theres like 10+ all locked on at once, your bound to peek out at the wrong time, or have them surround you.

 

Get through this, and you have a really cool sight, the portal from the first level with nukes and demonmouth constructs. Instead of a cool sector cutccene or other spectacles, you get a Bad Dream of Tyrants, from both sides at once, in what feels like a 'I ran out of time for the quakecon deadline, how do I finish this?' decision. Compared to Coiled City, which was balls hard but very inspired in its dickishness with a clear goal and vision, I got a distinct feeling that E2M7 fizzled out after the vassago maze. Not what I expect from Xasermaps.

 

_______________

 

As a whole, Legacy of Rust was neat, with most of it being standout maps. The two guestmappers threw a wrench on the cohesion bigtime, basically dropping unrelated maps in the pile that dont match, and in E2, there is a map that was recycled from a failed community project, a map with no new monsters and suspiciously feeling like a recycled unused map, a sudden tonal shift to a highly technogically advanced base with nukes out of nowhere, and a gameplay shift to slaughter, which is well known to be an extremely divisive type of map, that has no place in an IWAD unless its a secret slot. I got a feeling that its 'unfinished' and released unpolished for that corporate evil known as deadlines.

 

The new monsters I really enjoyed, however many of them are underutilised. The Tyrant needed to be introduced much earlier, instead of constant regular cyberdemons. Mindweavers only appeared 6 times in Episode 2, and three of those were a 'fuck you' surround trap on the slaughtermap, that insta-deleted the megaarmour you just picked up. Why was there never a 'caco cloud' of banshees that had you running for your life, while also trying to set up the biggest chain reaction? Ghouls were great, and I enjoyed the Vassagos, and beleive they should have been in EVERY map after their introduction. They are the title screen monster, the monster the story talks about, they are the big bads of the expansion.

 

The new weapons I hardly got much use out of, outside of the maps where Xaser says 'use this, and this only' as height differences and cramped spaces made both undesirable a lot of the time. I wonder if a future release when ID24 is finished, will allow cells AND fuel weapons in these maps? Either way, im looking forward to seeing what people do with the monsters and weapons, once the conspiracy theory shit stops and people start adopting ID24. Just uh, try not to copy E2M6 okay? (apologies if criticism is too harsh in places)

Edited by Devalaous

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Posted (edited)

Personally I thought it only went into bullshit, unfair or unfun territory near the ends of E2M6 and E2M7.

 

The part in E2M6s where some AVs are released with no cover in sight (after the yellow key teleporter and hordes of imps to be destroyed with the blade) felt a bit like bullshit but I got through it on I think the 3rd or 4th try, maybe with a bit of luck. That was the map where I gave up on only saving at the beginning of a map though.

 

E2M7 was not too bad until the finale with first the AVs and then the Tyrants. I got through the AVs eventually with again perhaps a bit of luck, but with the Tyrants coming right after that shit I just gave up and iddqd'd to the end. Seems I still got the achievement for LoR though, lol.

 

Okay I'm not the best player (especially when it comes to SP in the current day and not DM 20 years ago) but still...

 

E1M6 was irritating sure but not as bad as those. (E2M1 I actually enjoyed, got through it on the 2nd or 3rd try)

 

Didn't really like some of the new graphics (felt like it just doesn't "belong", would be OK in a fanmade PWAD but this is supposed to be official content, even the new weapons, especially the flamer looks a bit off despite being based on cut alpha content), but I'm not going to complain too much since the whole thing was (almost) free for me. Not sure I'd have played it anyway if it wasn't...

 

(edit: to clarify, all played on UV continously, no pistol starts except when changing episode, and before you suggest I should played on lower skill setting: I suspect HMP would have been too easy since the only problem on UV for me was these few sticking points in two last maps and E1M6)

 

(edit2: well now that I think of it, Final Doom graphics have the same problem as well, just a different art style mixed in, even ugly at times in tnt.wad, guess I've just got too used to them... of course there they're also limited to appearing in title screens and such, and wall textures)

Edited by xttl

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11 hours ago, famicommander said:

Aren't you the guy trying to sell a new Super Nintendo port of Doom? And you're here complaining that people offering entirely new content are asking a small compensation from people who didn't already own the games on one of any number of digital platforms? 

I only helped on porting a map to the port for one thing (I don't think the limited group that helped on porting the maps will get paid or compensated beyond getting our name in the credits and maybe a free box?), and for another thing it's not exactly bringing "new" content to the table; It's, by all means, just a collector's edition for those curious in or already fans of SNES Doom.

 

Anyway, I'm tired of debating about this, and yes I know it's how the modern landscape is shaping up to be, I was just trying to say I don't like it, that's all.

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4 hours ago, Roebloz said:

I only helped on porting a map to the port for one thing (I don't think the limited group that helped on porting the maps will get paid or compensated beyond getting our name in the credits and maybe a free box?), and for another thing it's not exactly bringing "new" content to the table; It's, by all means, just a collector's edition for those curious in or already fans of SNES Doom.

 

Anyway, I'm tired of debating about this, and yes I know it's how the modern landscape is shaping up to be, I was just trying to say I don't like it, that's all.

You literally came on here and asked for someone to just give you Legacy of Rust for free, then you came into the Legacy of Rust topic to complain about the price. 


While, at the same time, asking people to pay money for your own Doom project. How would you feel if the Nightdive team came into your thread and demanded you just send them the ROM for free and said it wasn't worth the price?

 

Staggering level of entitlement on display. I'll bet you never even bought Doom to begin with. You were definitely that guy who just hassled all your friends until one of them sent you the wads for free. 

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7 hours ago, Devalaous said:

The two guestmappers threw a wrench on the cohesion bigtime, basically dropping unrelated maps in the pile that dont match

Personally, I liked those maps. The new texture themes were nice and I liked them more than the "lost res" textures, which have their charm but have already been explored often. And the incongruous tech base in Hell seems to be the premise of the legorust story; to wit UAC found a corner of Hell that didn't seem to have demons, built a base in there, then the demons came back from their vacation and were quite upset and found out they had homework brought to them, and so Doomguy is sent to clean up the resulting mess.

 

I didn't mind the slaughter parts of Soul Silo too much, after a few tries I found a strategy that worked well for me. The calamity blade's ripping heatwave is very fun to use against densely packed crowds of monsters and it's relatively hard to make slaughter still challenging when you have that weapon. I think the problem here is more in the weapon design than in the level design; the level design flows from the weapon design.

 

8 hours ago, Devalaous said:

The Tyrant is introduced here in comically bad fashion, the wad has been FULL of regular cyberdemons that should have almost all been Tyrants, and suddenly we have a dramatic reveal of a...weaker cyberdemon, who is constantly laughed at for his weird looking head. This late in the wad, it doesnt work.

Yeah, I agree on that, it was disappointing the cyberbaldies were only introduced in the last map. Especially since the final fight of the penultimate map was against a whole gaggle of original flavor horny cybies.

 

Also agree that the New Official Monsters should have been used more, in general. That a couple of E2 maps (Dis Union, Echoes of Pain) didn't use any of the new enemies at all felt like a bigger cohesion problem than a change of texture theme, to me.

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11 hours ago, Devalaous said:

(apologies if criticism is too harsh in places)

I effectively told Xaser to eff off over the E2M7 Archie spam, so I think you're good.

 

Also, sorry, Xaser. I stand by my criticism, but I think I need to stop posting my opinions immediately after a ragequit...

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I love the MC Escher inspired room in coiled city. Also, I caught xaser putting his logo on one of those hell banner walls.

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Posted (edited)

I dislike e2m1

 

it confuses me

 

not only that, the start is shitty, barely any ammo or context what you're supposed to do

 

It could also use some sign posting when you need to backtrack to the last place you'd expect to backtrack

Edited by Grungo

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Now that ive finished it. for the most part i enjoyed myself, but the ammo starvation was suffocating here, i dont think ive ever had 0/0/0/0 in Doom for such long periods of time before, especially not while hordes of midtier demons are still active. Coiled City in particular had me ready to quit. new monsters are fun, though the Tyrant is both very bad looking and used poorly. i like the new weapons, but the flamethrower lacks the killing power of plasma, and not having plasma around is probably where half the difficulty comes from.

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Posted (edited)

I just finished playing through Episode 1. It was mostly good. I liked E1M1 and E1M3. I hated switch hunting in E1M2. I did not like E1M6. E1M7 is ok, I guess. I honestly don't really remember much of E1M4 and E1M5.

 

The new enemies were mostly ok. I didn't like the silver Lost Souls. The Banshees were mostly ok aside from the constant wailing and screaming. I actually liked the flaming Hell Knight guys. I would have preferred seeing those instead of the original Hell Knight in Doom 2 (maybe even without its wings or something). The shocktroopers were amusing mostly because of their heads popping off when they die. The chaingun Arachnotrons sucked. I hated them.

 

I like the new textures. They looked pretty good. I like the flamethrower weapon. It was fun to use, although I wish you could hold more ammo. I didn't really care much for that new BFG-type weapon. The music, overall, was really good. I enjoyed hearing them. I hope there will be a remastered soundtrack for this new level set in the future.

 

Gonna work my way through Episode 2 now.

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On jeudi 29 août 2024 at 6:04 AM, LF222 said:

the flamethrower lacks the killing power of plasma

Really?

Spoiler



#define INCINERATOR_FLAME_DAMAGE 5
#define INCINERATOR_FLAME_VELOCITY 40
#define INCINERATOR_BURN_DAMAGE 5
#define INCINERATOR_BURN_RADIUS 64

 


/*****************************************************************************
 * id1 - decohack - incinerator
 * (c) id Software 2023
 ****************************************************************************/

weapon Incinerator "Incinerator"
{
	AmmoType AM_CELL
	CarouselIcon "SMFLAM"

	clear states
	states
	{
		ready:
			FLMG A 1 A_WeaponReady
			Loop
		deselect:
			FLMG A 1 A_Lower
			Loop
		select:
			FLMG A 1 A_Raise
			Loop
		fire:
			FLMF A 0 Bright A_WeaponJump(fireSound2, 128)
			FLMF A 0 Bright A_WeaponSound(DSINCFI1)
			goto fireReal
		fireSound2:
			FLMF A 0 Bright A_WeaponSound(DSINCFI2)
			goto fireReal
		fireReal:
			FLMF A 0 Bright A_GunFlash
			FLMF A 0 Bright A_ConsumeAmmo(1)
			FLMF A 1 Bright A_WeaponProjectile(IncineratorFlame)
			FLMF B 1 Bright
			FLMG A 1
			FLMG A 0 A_ReFire
			Goto Ready
		flash:
			TNT1 A 2 A_Light2
			TNT1 A 1 A_Light1
			Goto LightDone
	}
}

thing IncineratorFlame "Incinerator Flame"
{
	Damage INCINERATOR_FLAME_DAMAGE
	Speed INCINERATOR_FLAME_VELOCITY
	Radius 13
	Height 8

	+NOBLOCKMAP
	+NOGRAVITY
	+DROPOFF
	+MISSILE
	+TRANSLUCENT
	+FORCERADIUSDMG

	states
	{
		spawn:
			TNT1 A 1 Bright
			IFLM A 2 Bright
			IFLM B 2 Bright A_PlaySound(DSINCBRN)
			IFLM CDEFGH 2 Bright
			stop
		death:
			IFLM A 0 Bright A_RandomJump(deathSound2, 128)
			IFLM A 0 Bright A_PlaySound(DSINCHT1)
			goto burninate
		deathSound2:
			IFLM A 0 Bright A_PlaySound(DSINCHT2)
			goto burninate
		burninate:
			IFLM I 2 bright A_RadiusDamage(INCINERATOR_BURN_DAMAGE, INCINERATOR_BURN_RADIUS)
			IFLM J 2 bright
			IFLM I 2 bright
			IFLM J 2 bright A_RadiusDamage(INCINERATOR_BURN_DAMAGE, INCINERATOR_BURN_RADIUS)
			IFLM K 2 bright
			IFLM J 2 bright
			IFLM K 2 bright A_RadiusDamage(INCINERATOR_BURN_DAMAGE, INCINERATOR_BURN_RADIUS)
			IFLM L 2 bright
			IFLM K 2 bright A_PlaySound(DSINCHT3)
			IFLM L 2 bright A_RadiusDamage(INCINERATOR_BURN_DAMAGE, INCINERATOR_BURN_RADIUS)
			IFLM M 2 bright
			IFLM L 2 bright
			IFLM M 2 bright A_RadiusDamage(INCINERATOR_BURN_DAMAGE, INCINERATOR_BURN_RADIUS)
			IFLM N 2 bright
			IFLM M 2 bright
			IFLM N 2 bright A_RadiusDamage(INCINERATOR_BURN_DAMAGE, INCINERATOR_BURN_RADIUS)
			IFLM O 2 bright
			IFLM N 2 bright
			IFLM O 2 bright
			IFLM POP 2 bright
			stop
	}
}

thing IncineratorPickup "Incinerator"
{
	//$Category Weapons

	PickupMessage "ID24_GOTINCINERATOR"

	states
	{
	spawn:
		PLAS B -1
		stop
	}
}


 

Because it has the same rate of fire (every three tics), doesn't have the "reload" animation when you stop firing. Projectile speed is faster (40 instead of 25). Projectile inflicts as much damage on impact (5x1d8). But in addition, projectile also inflicts burn damage six times. So while the plasma rifle can, if you're lucky, inflict a maximum of 40 damage per shot; the incinerator can inflict a maximum of 70 damage per shot. Of which 30 damage are splash damage, also inflicted to other nearby monsters (though reduced by distance, like all splash damage). Stats-wise, the incinerator is a straight upgrade over the plasma rifle. Its downsides are not in killing power, they are:

  1. Restricted range. The flame will only travel for 17 tics (about one half second). At a speed of 40, that's 680 map units; not all that much. After that, they disappear. The incinerator therefore cannot be used as a long range weapon like the plasma rifle can.
  2. Self-damage. Due to fire damage splash radius, if you target an enemy that's less than 64 map units away, you'll get some damage from your own weapon.
  3. Limited ammo. You can only hold half as much fuel as you can hold cells.

 

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I wonder if some of the "flamethrower is weak" comments are coming from folks playing it in GZDoom -- the current latest release has a bug that makes the splash damage not work properly, at which point it'd indeed just be a short range plasma rifle. It's fixed in dev builds, though, so switching over to one of those will make it way more effective.

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I got around to playing LoR in Kek engine and it is noticeably much stronger when you play in that than in GZDoom. Then again, I am also using a slightly older version of GZDoom so that might have something to do with it.

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