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Captain Keen

LEGACY OF RUST - overall thoughts?

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3 hours ago, Deadwing said:

E1M7: Great map, kind of a remake/homage of Doom II's map 11, but it works great. There's a lot of room to maneuver in the chaotic beginning and the MIDI fucking kick-ass haha I think I found a small skip with the invisibility orb secret (skipping blue key area), but you guys probably know about it.

 

E2M1: Insane display of creativity here, it feels indeed like a prison escape map lol Low ammunition at the early sessions gives an extra pressure against the player but there's a lot of space to pass through most enemies and keep progressing and killing what's high priority. The way progression unfolds is very creative too, with ceilings going up and setpieces unfolding in an unexpected way. Fantastic map, imo.

E1M7: Yeah, at first I thought it was intended progression.

 

E2M1: The jailbreak concept is so cool.

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played through the vulcan abyss episode 

 

e1m7 was good - fun homage to map11 as pointed out before - but it felt substantially less difficult than e1m6 and also nowhere near as impressive architecturally speaking and as such not quite as climactic but on the plus side its really good at making you use the incinerator so much so even that i kept running out of fuel! ^^

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3 hours ago, Gez said:

They're all in id1.wad.

 

But you know what? Fine. Here's one of them.   I hope @Xaser will forgive me.

D_BLANK.zip

Why are you so worried about this? 

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So far I've completed E1 and a few maps into E2 and my thoughts are:

It's really cool to see an "official" new wad, with some of those alpha resources. That very first room in E1M1 with the chairs gave me a huge nostalgia hit of firing up one of those old alpha builds back in the day as the design was no doubt paying homage to that specific design.

I've had fun blasting monsters as Doom by default is anyway, but some of the maps feel... a little weird, and not super intuitive in design, maybe my standards are high after playing nearly every megawad but there are just little things in the layouts that make things seem super un-obvious or as if the layout was designed "well" but not with a fun aspect of gameplay at the forefront if that makes sense. It's not bad by any means but there have just been some areas and moments I've thought "that's odd". Kudos to Xaser tho, and the MIDI is fantastic, currently rocking out to E2M2/Map09 midi and I genuinely thought it was James Paddock midi!:
 

 

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Posted (edited)

One thing I really liked about the music is the use of motifs, like "SKELETON WORLD" references "Welcome to Die" and "Tactical Blasphemy". That's such a cool idea that's not very common in Doom mods.

Edited by Gothic : phrasing

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Your dad beat E1M6 today...

 

Spoiler

FUCK THIS GAME

 

FUCK ALL DOOM WADS

 

THIS LAYOUT IS BULLSHIT AND I HAVE NO AMMO BUT FOR THE INCINERATOR, I'M GOING BACK TO HALF-LIFE

I HATE EVERYTHING IN HERE

 

...and then went on to try E1M7:

 

Spoiler

I FUCKIN' LOVE THIS GAME

I FUCKIN' LOVE DOOM


I JUST FOUND THE CALAMITY BLADE AND A SKULL BARFED A YELLOW KEY SURROUNDED BY CORPSES AT ME 

 

I LOVE EVERY MOMENT OF MY LIFE THAT LED TO ME PLAYING THIS GAME

 

"Legacy of Rust"? More like "Duality of Man". 

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Posted (edited)

i got tired of hearing the vassago use the doom 64 demon pain noise as its idle sound so i used slade to open id1.wad and rename DSVASPAI to DSVASACT and vice versa

 

its an easy fix and it sounds much better that way! i just dont understand why nightdive didnt do it that way

 

and while i was at it i also replaced the shocktrooper pain and death sounds; the sound designer used the breathing noise from the quake 2 strogg guard for the idle sound but not its pain and death sound oddly enough

 

if anyone interested heres my fan fix! LoR_sfx.zip

Edited by TMMMS

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Posted (edited)

Finally finished both episodes on HMP using GZDoom and I don't think I have anything that valuable to say about it, but I really liked it! The fire crossbow thing took a bit to get the hang of but having to line up shots vertically gave it an extra layer of depth that I appreciated. My least favorite aspect are the beta lost souls; the projectiles feel too fast (or too small or not fullbright or something), but the other new monsters are great. Overall I'd say this is my favorite of the official mapsets that aren't Doom 1 and 2, such a great atmosphere, intuitive puzzles/map progression, badass music and is beautifully detailed without losing the "Doom" vibe. FIve bucks on Steam has really gone a long way with this game over the years, huh.

Edited by Lippeth

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Here's my thoughts about the first chapter since it's the only one that i completed: I honestly didn't like it that much. The levels were so long that i just started to get bored. E1M1 was good with that cool portal to hell thing. E1M2 has a cool song but i didn't like the slaugther-ish part that much(also why is there so many revenants on an early level?). E1M3 was just bad. E1M4 was alright. E1M5 was fucking hell with the lack of medkits and that one spider mastermind. E1M6 was confusing(i guess it was meant to be like that but i just don't like it) and E1M7 was... Uhhh, strange to say the least. I overall give Legacy Of Rust's first episode a 6.5/10. Level design certainly isn't it's best thing but i liked the new weapons and monsters, specially the calamity blade(i honestly don't see the "blade" on it but cool) and the vassago.

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Earlier parts of the first episode felt better than the later parts personally. Idk if it's part of the level designs or just many long levels stringed together getting exhausting. Outside of e1m6 (not a fan of ammo crunching so extreme), earlier areas felt better than later.

 

Really liked the first 3 levels by far. Quick snappy first level, wide open 2nd level with a fun little bridge puzzle raising/lowering platforms and the 3rd level being just running through a linear level killing demons and not having to keep secrets in mind kept it very fast paced which was fun change after the first 2 levels.

 

This was done on HMP, so not sure how crazy/extreme UV gets but difficulty felt good for my skill level.

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Played on the native Steam version.

 

There were some really cool ideas included. Long range Vassago attacks aside (I feel their attacks should fade within a certain distance of travel like your own incinerator and/or nerf the radius of the impact) and choice in primarily leaving fuel on the map, I actually liked MAP06's design in terms of aesthetics and gimmicks - the 'dimensional'-like room with the stairs for example and the stairwell. Some really nice use of (what I understand to be) beta resources thrown about. I felt a bit dumb in that while I found some key secrets, many alluded me (although found the secret exits at least).

 

Another really cool map was Episode 1's secret level. The atmosphere, music, level design and focus on a few eerie enemies made it what might have been my favourite map. A great introduction (at least on HMP) for the Shock Troopers and a nice change of pace from the higher enemy counts. On the other hand was not a fan of Episode 2's secret - I get what the intention was (a pesky Cyberdemon Turret basically raising up to harass you), but felt awkward. I did like the idea of a backpack for a reward.

 

Weapon-wise I felt the incinerator(?) was a bit underwhelming but really cool design - the risk for splash damage so to speak lead me to avoid it except when I was full to capacity and had opportunity to use it (or for key enemies like Vassago). The Calamity Blade (once I figured out its potential) is very fun and I think was a really nice alternative to the BFG. Kind of wish we still could have had Cells although I figured the new weapons would merely replace the old ones. Was kind of hoping for a Doom II SSG and Duke Nukem Atomic Edition Situation with the Expander (i.e. adding weapons to the key slots).

 

Of the enemies, I like the use of the "Ghouls(?) / Beta Lost Souls" and what felt like Lost Souls moreso being relegated to Pain Elementals - prefer their new attack over the supposed Beta hitscan attacks. Having both Mindweavers AND Arachnotrons intact was kind of nicec although having another hitscanner is less preferable to projectiles. Shock Troopers (complete with their death animations) were a nice surprise though I noticed both their (and the Ghouls attack) threw me off a bit due to speed (and in the case of the Ghoul) size of the fireball.Vassago as mentioned I'd have preferred a few tweaks to (though appreciate changing up the formula). Tyrant's were okay in theory although kind of thought were a bit ugly (especially the heads) and wish theyre was a bit more at a glance to differentiate them from Cyberdemons - akin to how the arachnotron is distinctly visibly different to the Spider-Mastermind.  

 

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7 hours ago, Lippeth said:

Finally finished both episodes on HMP using GZDoom and I don't think I have anything that valuable to say about it, but I really liked it! The fire crossbow thing took a bit to get the hang of but having to line up shots vertically gave it an extra layer of depth that I appreciated. My least favorite aspect are the beta lost souls; the projectiles feel too fast (or too small or not fullbright or something), but the other new monsters are great. Overall I'd say this is my favorite of the official mapsets that aren't Doom 1 and 2, such a great atmosphere, intuitive puzzles/map progression, badass music and is beautifully detailed without losing the "Doom" vibe. FIve bucks on Steam has really gone a long way with this game over the years, huh.

 

Right there with you on the Calamity Blade - it's kind of interesting how you have to compensate for the 'flatness' of the projectile in a way that you never really had to do in Doom before.

 

The few chances I had to really try it out were something of trial-and-error, as I was trying to not let it hit a staircase or something (because I didn't wanna waste it on the E1M6 Cyberdemon); maybe it's a skill issue but I feel like the two levels where you get to use it aren't really designed in a way to let you totally let it rip, and I'd love a chance to use it later in the game in a more flat area full of trash mobs.

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Posted (edited)

I finished both episodes yesterday.

 

Overall it's very good. Some maps show great level of creativity (eg: MAP02, MAP06, MAP09,...). Some are definitely boring (eg: MAP13)

There is a few places where I got stuck, circling around for 10min and looking for a missed switch to activate, but that's OK.

Music is meh. Some soundtracks are rather annoying and don't fit the theme at all. I turned volume down quickly. Difficulty is OK but it's definitely much harder than vanilla game. I wish there would be more new enemies.

Edited by Tigrou

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Posted (edited)

Just finished and honestly I loved it, the whole thing. The new monsters are a nice surprise too considering I pretty much only like vanilla stuff. I'm going to keep this one together with the official wads + NERVE and SIGIL1-2.

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I won't go into too much detail because I put a lot of that into my comment on page 5, but Legacy of Rust is a really nice expansion. Not what I'm used to, really, but I really enjoyed how different and challenging it was. 

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beat the first episode, loved it overall but e1m6 kinda blindsided me with how frustrating and tedious it was. genuinely thought it was the last level until i actually, you know, *beat it.* i'd give it an 8/10 overall, point taken off for that one map alone. stay tuned for my irrelevant and equally short review on ep 2 :3

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am i the only one who noticed that map11 doesnt feature any of the new monsters?

 

now dont get me wrong its a great map - reminds me a lot of map14 from doom 2 although better looking and with a better flow - but aside from the occasional incinerator and fuel pickups it plays and looks like it belongs in a vanilla-friendly wad like d2twid

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E2M2: Another great map, reminded me vaguely of E4M6 but ofc it's much more different. Loved the way the level unfolds and it has a more relaxing pacing compared with previous maps.

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11 minutes ago, Deadwing said:

E2M2: Another great map, reminded me vaguely of E4M6 but ofc it's much more different. Loved the way the level unfolds and it has a more relaxing pacing compared with previous maps.

I loved it too (it's MAP09). Both the gameplay and layout (this contrasts with square/round rooms design found in lot of DOOM maps)

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Posted (edited)

Just finished Coiled City.

I guess I was expecting much worse reading people raging about it, but I really liked it. I tried not using anything but the flamethrower, though I had some fuel left over from the previous levels, as I'm playing continuous (on UV), so I didn't experience the full ammo starvation situation. I probably also used way more rockets than you can find in that one place in the level.

 

Overall though, this is the style of level that I actually really enjoy. It's the kind of difficulty that's really fun to overcome with some saving and reloading without feeling like I'm destroying the tension. I guess it's mostly because I know ahead of time that it's gonna be trial and error, and because it's based on exploring and finding a good approach to take on the initially overwhelming opposition, instead of surviving ambushes like the more straightforward doom levels. The level really reminded me of how it felt playing games as a kid, when I was much more open to doing anything I could get away with just to beat a game, instead of always trying to let the game challenge me as best it can, as I do nowadays. It's the sort of level that doesn't make me want to avoid cheesy tactics, instead it's the sort of ancient design where you get a ball of bullshit which is riddled with many shortcuts and tricks that you can discover and gradually chip away at it until it's all but gone. This type of map for me is on another level in terms of entertainment, investment and being memorable compared to all previous maps. I'm looking forward to trying it from the pistol start, to see how horrid the ammo situation is without the carryover fuel I had. It gave me a lot of food for thought as far as what I enjoy in doom and games overall.

 

This level also has the first music track that I really liked so far. All of the previous music tracks were either kind of nondescript, entirely unfitting for the environment (such as e1m2's), or downright criminal (such as e1m3's: I had to stop the game and rant about my hatred for that music track to a few people before I continued with the level). Coiled City's track is the first one that really gets across a doomy atmosphere for me.

 

The rest of the levels were fine. I thinks the levels have steadily improved one after another, or at least I've been having a better experience with each subsequent level. E1m1's impression was forever marred by this port's really sloppy performance, but I guess overall it's fine. Might really jump up in the rankings upon replay. E1m2 was more interesting, though for some reason I didn't like how the landscape looked, and the pipe thing inside was a bit tedious where you needed to go back and forth like four times if you fell off on the wrong side. Really cool secrets though, and I think it's the only level so far where I found every secret. E1m9 was just kinda there, although atmospheric for sure. E1m3 looked cool but made my ears bleed and looked extremely out of place also - it's the sole level that makes the whole episode feel disjointed, even though it's only the one level which seems completely alien thematically. Though I have no complaints about the gameplay or the length. E1m4 felt like a return to the classic, genuine "lava and heck" type environment that's straightforward and refreshing at that point in the campaign, and e1m5 built on top of it with cool structures and other neat ideas.

 

I also enjoy the new weapons and enemies a lot. Genuinely don't have a single complaint about them, I like them all a lot. Though from what I've seen, I'm expecting the bald cyberdemon to look cursed as heck ingame, but I haven't encountered them yet.

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Posted (edited)

Am I the only one who is really irked by the Calamity Blade's lack of vertical autoaim? I guess I still can't get over the fact that it is not a "clear the screen" bomb like the BFG is. The E2M7 Cyberdemon fight actually requires getting on level field lest you waste a lot of fuel.

 

EDIT: I am aware it pierces, as it absolutely decimated the Imp horde in the same map, but the Cacos floating a meter above the Doomguy's head are laughing at me. LAUGHING!

Edited by Pechudin

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7 minutes ago, Pechudin said:

Am I the only one who is really irked by the Calamity Blade's lack of vertical autoaim? I guess I still can't get over the fact that it is not a "clear the screen" bomb like the BFG is. The E2M7 Cyberdemon fight actually requires getting on level field lest you waste a lot of fuel.

The problem is that if it autoaims vertically, it'll aim for center of hitbox of the closest enemy, and that's going to have it pitched up or down when there's no need for it, and that will make it miss other enemies in a crowd.

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Just now, Gez said:

The problem is that if it autoaims vertically, it'll aim for center of hitbox of the closest enemy, and that's going to have it pitched up or down when there's no need for it, and that will make it miss other enemies in a crowd.

 

Oh I am aware of that, autoaim would reduce its crowd-destroying potential. I juse need to get better at using it. It's not a straightforward BFG reskin.

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although i much prefer the calamity blade in concept i found myself using the incinerator a lot more than i expected

 

as first i thought it was just a worse version of the plasma rifle but it turned out to be much better in many ways! sure it has a shorter range and you can hurt yourself if you arent careful but the fact that its projectiles deal splash damage make it the perfect weapon to deal with groups of enemies and even stunlock higher-tier monsters!!!

 

basically had plutonia introduced a new weapon it wouldve been the incinerator!

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9 hours ago, Antroid said:

music tracks were entirely unfitting for the environment (such as e1m2's)

I’ve seen a lot of controversial opinions posted on this forum over the last week but this may be the one I disagree with the most.

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

The LoR soundtrack is great from what I've heard so far. I'll never understand the seemingly popular viewpoint that music in Doom should always sound like the same 12-bar blues riffs we had in 1993.

I was stoked when I first played the wad that the music actually sounded like a modern doom wad. It’s a shame if people are bellyaching about good melody and harmonization in 2024. 

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Posted (edited)

I dunno about 12-bar blues riffs, but I prefer something that matches the overall atmosphere and mood. e1m2's track sounds like it came from Sonic Robo Blast 2. It sounds nice overall, and it starts out more or less fitting, but then evolves wildly into something that's completely out of place.

 

3 hours ago, kwc said:

 

I was stoked when I first played the wad that the music actually sounded like a modern doom wad. It’s a shame if people are bellyaching about good melody and harmonization in 2024. 

I don't play too many modern wads overall, but so far I've found the music to be the weakest point of this release. Maybe nobody ever has music that I'd consider fitting and memorable/catchy anymore, but I wouldn't know. Most music I hear usually sounds like it'd fit something like a mega man game rather than doom. Personally, the mood of the soundtrack is vastly more important to me than how well-composed it is.

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Posted (edited)

well just like i made a minimod to switch around the vassago sounds or replace the shocktropper ones, you could try making a music replacement mod that fits the mood better ^^ if you do be sure to share it here as id be very interested in giving it shot myself!

 

speaking of atmospheric music im actually surprised that nightdive didnt include aubrey hodges ps1 soundtracks as an option alongside andrew hulshults but seeing how andrew hulshult didnt do tnt or lor covers i guess nightdive just ran out of time or money

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Posted (edited)

I just played legacy of rust for doom, and I noticed that the graphics like the walls. The textures are the same and look the same as they always do do not rendered do not in HD. Why is that even the hud of display? it’s not rendered in HD. You know what the characters face I guess I’ll try to play legacy of rust in GZdoom with HD PK 3 files. And see if that makes a difference because I prefer HD rendered Doom over the old Graphics not to mention on the Steam version I can’t look up and down, which is what I want to be able to do. I’m so used to doing that and second of all. Where is the heavy metal in Legacy of rust there isn’t any and doom must have heavy metal we all know this

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