Kinsie Posted August 12 I don't think we as a community can realistically criticize unattributed re-uploads until we clean our own house. 7 Share this post Link to post
Decay Posted August 12 9 hours ago, Kinsie said: I don't think we as a community can realistically criticize unattributed re-uploads until we clean our own house. If I could ever dislike a post it would be this one. Contexts matter and wadhosts like tspg do well with moderation, but also are more community driven in regards to uploads that shouldn't be there/take down requests. They also aren't typically under a microscope from legal entities, which the bethesda one is, and suggesting we stifle these is pretty anti-creative and anti-productive. 26 Share this post Link to post
Kinsie Posted August 12 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Decay said: wadhosts like tspg do well with moderation I also had a conversation with someone who described the process of getting a wad of theirs removed from one of these wadhosts as having to "pull some strings" in private, which is to say, it typically relies on knowing specific people and isn't accessible to everyone else. Probably some room for improvement. 1 Share this post Link to post
Decay Posted August 12 I have never had an issue getting a wad pulled from TSPG if needed. Comparing anecdotes isn't really helpful, and neither is comparing a corporate-run download page that is more likely to attract negative attention that risks stifling a significant portion of creative work that the community has been essentially built on over the past 30 years to a community based wadhost used more for server functionality than anything else. I'm genuinely surprised you are going to bat for the bethesda downloads page and turning your nose up at people expressing concerns, hand waving or reducing concerns to "what about multiplayer wadhosts". 11 Share this post Link to post
Kinsie Posted August 12 13 minutes ago, Decay said: I have never had an issue getting a wad pulled from TSPG if needed. Could you please detail the process? Because there's nothing on the website (at least, not when you're logged out) and I wouldn't necessarily call Discord or IRC a better approach than a report button. Or a forum. Or, really, anything visible to search engines. 0 Share this post Link to post
Decay Posted August 12 6 minutes ago, Kinsie said: Could you please detail the process? Because there's nothing on the website (at least, not when you're logged out) and I wouldn't necessarily call Discord or IRC a better approach than a report button. Or a forum. Or, really, anything visible to search engines. The TSPG states to take it up with a staff member on Discord. Sure, that's not the best method and TSPG could certainly do better in some areas. A report button only takes you so far (you need to register to use it on Bethesda's site) and proving who the real author of a wad is with no real means of verifying who you are taking a report from isn't always easy (impersonation, etc). That isn't the gotcha you think it is. 10 Share this post Link to post
Kinsie Posted August 12 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Decay said: That isn't the gotcha you think it is. How is asking the community to do better - to be better - a gotcha? This should be a staring-at-own-reflection-in-mirror, "oh wait, this thing we've been doing for decades completely sucks" moment. This should be a catalyst for unfucking things in our own house on top of everything and anything else. 1 Share this post Link to post
Decay Posted August 12 9 minutes ago, Kinsie said: How is asking the community to do better - to be better - a gotcha? This should be a staring-at-own-reflection-in-mirror, "oh wait, this thing we've been doing for decades completely sucks" moment. This should be a catalyst for unfucking things in our own house on top of everything and anything else. That is not the way you've been framing it and turning the frame to be a moment of reflection is completely disingenuous. 4 Share this post Link to post
Warboss_Gegguz Posted August 12 8 minutes ago, Kinsie said: How is asking the community to do better - to be better - a gotcha? This should be a staring-at-own-reflection-in-mirror, "oh wait, this thing we've been doing for decades completely sucks" moment. This should be a catalyst for unfucking things in our own house on top of everything and anything else. Never assume the better of random people on the internet. The only reason this community has its shit even slightly together is because it's had three decades to separate the wheat from the chaff. 2 Share this post Link to post
Dynamo Posted August 12 As much as I agree with Decay's sentiment on this, ultimately this is completely unrelated to the topic at hand so I'm splitting it. 3 Share this post Link to post
Ru5tK1ng Posted August 12 1 hour ago, Kinsie said: I also had a conversation with someone who described the process of getting a wad of theirs removed from one of these wadhosts as having to "pull some strings" in private, which is to say, it typically relies on knowing specific people and isn't accessible to everyone else. Probably some room for improvement. Did this hypothetical someone try to get their wad off TSPG? I've also had a conversation with someone who worked with the TSPG staff to effortlessly get his project banned. Having to talk to the staff isn't pulling strings, it's talking to the people who's job it is. Joining the discord to speak with the staff costs nothing and there's a link on their page. I will agree that TSPG could improve reporting by making a button or better utilizing their bug tracker. However, that's not my job to make that change and you are free to join their discord and make suggestions for improvement. Furthermore I don't know why you brought up Funcrusher. That wad listing isn't community driven and was the sole work of one person (not to mention the game servers and site were nuked years ago). 2 hours ago, Kinsie said: How is asking the community to do better - to be better - a gotcha? This should be a staring-at-own-reflection-in-mirror, "oh wait, this thing we've been doing for decades completely sucks" moment. This should be a catalyst for unfucking things in our own house on top of everything and anything else. Except that was never your intention from the beginning and you only pulled that out when backed to a corner. Your first post in the topic was quite honestly corporate bootlicking while trying to make a knock towards community ran entities. You definitely weren't offering any solutions but were quick to bring up problems. 8 Share this post Link to post
nax Posted August 13 hi, tspg guy here! My DM's have always been open on Discord (including just about every single doom community discord) and thus far the only complaints I've ever had about how we deal with file control have been from people who have attempted to get files that clearly don't belong to them pulled due to some kind of vendetta or because of outside drama / disputes. It would be nice to receive that feedback (at all), especially from Kinsie who I've shared community space with for many many years instead of getting linked this thread elsewhere and finding it out on Doomworld. We don't use a report button because all of that discussion takes places through Discord. If we did, it'd still require a conversation which would be best had in a chatroom, and since we require Discord for those conversations it'd simply be an additional step that saves no one time. I investigate all file claims and put due diligence into each one because of the respect that I hold for both content creators and our users. But at it's core the website operates with an "upload link" and is designed to be a repository for people to be able to play online. Balancing these concerns is nuanced enough that I take great pains to ensure that the people who come to me with file issues are who they say they are, or if the file that is being targeted really ought to be targeted. Or even if there was a mistake on either of our parts! TSPG has many issues, mostly as a result of it jury rigging Best Ever into a website format. The website was designed as a convenience tool for our server hosting, rather than being designed from the ground up. As such we don't have rich methods of chatting or messaging, so we lean on our Discord which is where our members have told us is the most convenient way of conducting business and resolving issues. So basically, no chat system, no report button. Or if we did, it'd simply link to our Discord. That said, I'd absolutely accept any support in that direction if it were offered! 8 Share this post Link to post