Building decorates with AI

[SupremeBioVizier]

What is your opinion about using chatgt to help write script, any of you take short cuts while making maps and use AI?

[Kinsie]

The last I heard someone trying this, they got a bizarre mishmash of three different programming languages that wouldn't work in any of them.

 

The automatons don't understand us, and that's probably for the best.

[URROVA]

Dont even use it, the AI is trained to use more general languages like java or python. DECORATE is too niche for the AI to learn it. 

Also ChatGPT doesnt program, it copies code it downloaded from stack overflow. I dont say its an wrong thing, but just take it into account when using GPTs.

[SupremeBioVizier]

I used it today to help create a wandering bat and help get a certain color to emit from a lamp, had to be very specific...some things it tells you for sure should work but does not, interesting tool.

[Gifty]

Burning multiple hundred times more natural resources to do a shittier, plagiaristic version of things that humans are already good at, for people who are too lazy and uncurious to learn themselves. That's the ai way!

[Major Arlene]

honestly you'll have more luck reverse-engineering any recent ZDoom/GZDoom WAD, I would not be using AI to write DECORATE

[Gothic]

DONT

[vyruss]

if you need to use AI to write a script in a simple scripting language you should probably not be touching scripts.

[Donowa]

the problem with chatgpt is that it's really just a parrot that's read the library of alexandria. it knows a lot of stuff, but it doesn't know what any of it means reallly

[Shepardus]

If you thought writing scripts was hard, try debugging the code given to you by an LLM in a language you never took the time to learn.

[Austrian Oak]

Don’t do that 

[kevansevans]

Usual reminder: ChatGPT is a glorified text predictor. It is not looking at your prompts and answering them like a human would, it's just regurgitating what the most statistically likely words are to follow next.

 

When you see things like ChatGPT recreate things like Pong or Brickbreaker in "useable" code, you need to keep in mind it's only able to do that, because those are babies first video games. In other words, it's only able to create that code because examples like them exist all over the internet, which is what ChatGPT is trained on. You will never be able to get code out of it that's actually heuristic and practical for anything beyond those entry level examples. So even if ChatGPT were to be trained on every single Doom text format there is, you won't get anything other than cookie cutter classes that act more or less exactly the same as everything else it would shit dump into the world.

 

The best way to learn how to code is to just code.

[SirPootis]

No.

[Burgish]

I've tried a couple time, never had it produce anything that ran.

 

Maybe it's okay for asking specific questions (I use it for such in my job where I deal with a lot of dumb proprietary coding languages) but don't expect it to deliver a copy/pasteable block.

[Desfar]

I dont know how ChatGPT does for normal code, but it sadly doesn't understand DECORATE.
And honestly, most of the basic DECORATE stuff is pretty easy to learn and churn out.
Its only when you want to get crazy that things get complex.

[th3_Dru1d]

2 hours ago, SupremeBioVizier said:

What is your opinion about using chatgt to help write script, any of you take short cuts while making maps and use AI?

I already know this thread is gonna get flamed. I think the whole reaction to AI is super overblown. It's capability to "disrupt" is really over marketed. 5 years ago we would have called it "machine learning" or "procedural generation" but AI has become a investment cash-cow for the usual suspects in silicon valley. So I really don't believe its use has a moral element to it.

 

I Just appreciate AI as a tool, like any tool, it's better to not over rely on it, but if its helping you make new and interesting things you couldn't before thats great. I think its best used pushing the technology to its limits and trying to create something unique, or seeing if you can manage the more tedious aspects of creation which I think is what you are trying to do.

 

That said, I think it would take some work getting it to make usable scripts, but I can imagine experimenting with it could help deepen your understanding of scripting and the process if development. I say go for it, just try not to get frustrated and see what you can learn.

[Major Arlene]

1 hour ago, th3_Dru1d said:

That said, I think it would take some work getting it to make usable scripts, but I can imagine experimenting with it could help deepen your understanding of scripting and the process if development. I say go for it, just try not to get frustrated and see what you can learn.

It won't. ChatGPT is a guessing machine, it's going to be maybe as useful if not less useful than anyone new to DECORATE coding, because it does not know what DECORATE is. DECORATE has extensive documentation on the ZDoom WIKI and you'd be better off reading there.

[BuffyTheDoomSlayer]

4 hours ago, SupremeBioVizier said:

What is your opinion about using chatgt to help write script, any of you take short cuts while making maps and use AI?

 

Actually I was thinking about starting a similar thread. I decided to try chatGPT for some of the recent tasks I've been trying to do - the results, meh. They are so-so. They did a good job of pointing me in the right direction though, it does seem to grasp the broad strokes. You just have to take the specifics with a grain of salt and be ready to cross-reference with the manual to make sure the results are actually sound (because they won't be lol). It would be interesting to train a model specifically for Doom modding and see how it behaved. 

[Metal_Slayer]

I have no inherent issue with the use of AI (since a lot of begginers copy scripts from other maps I'd say it's on the same ethical issue), but I don't see the point of using it for simple scripts, and it probably wouldn't be able to write something more complex. If it is one of your first maps and you don't understand Decorate maybe you shouldn't make it a ZDoom compatible.

[Gaia74]

I wasted more time fixing the code than the time I used if I had done it alone

[Milkeno]

6 hours ago, SupremeBioVizier said:

What is your opinion about using chatgt to help write script, any of you take short cuts while making maps and use AI?

Ai just gives you wrong info, it's not worth using.

 

 

1 hour ago, Major Arlene said:

DECORATE has extensive documentation on the ZDoom WIKI and you'd be better off reading there. 

The ZDoom wiki is pretty useless. It gives vague definitions that you could guess just from the names, and it doesn't link to the main pages for parameters. Even if it did, those pages don't have any DECORATE examples. it's not worth using.

Edited August 13 by Milkeno

[DiavoJinx]

8 hours ago, SupremeBioVizier said:

What is your opinion about using chatgt to help write script, any of you take short cuts while making maps and use AI?

I don't like someone(thing) thinking for me. I enjoy learning and increasing my intelligence & experience.

 

Having an idea and figuring out how to accomplish it by learning scripts/syntax and experiment with someone's shared script to see how it works and "massage" it to my original idea is worth more to me than being told the exact solution. Developing & exercising critical thinking skills are paramount.

(Likewise a few decades ago in elementary school if I had say math homework and asked my parents what the answer was to a rather simple equation, they wouldn't simply give me the answer but have me work out how to solve it. Critical thinking has done me well my entire adult life!)

[Murdoch]

4 hours ago, Major Arlene said:

It won't. ChatGPT is a guessing machine, it's going to be maybe as useful if not less useful than anyone new to DECORATE coding, because it does not know what DECORATE is. DECORATE has extensive documentation on the ZDoom WIKI and you'd be better off reading there.

 

Yeah. I watched a video of a guitarist trying to get it to tab out famous riffs and it failed abysmally and hilariously. It fucked up "Smoke on the Water" for God's sake. No way no how is it going to write good DECORATE code. You would spend more time fixing the results than you would learning and writing it yourself.

[SupremeBioVizier]

Alrighty y'all are correct I just spent an hour or so trying to get it to write a simple script for a bird and it was all kinds of mest up lol, other night I was building the same scripts for bats and had the AI write out some shit for illuminated lanterns because I figured I could give a prompt it would do that while I do something else and cut the time in half, those worked..but anything more complex and it starts improvising or something, I talked to a guy that said he used bing chat bot to help write out script for his web site job so my interest peaked, I'm not a coder just some guy that likes to get creative, but I see now AI dont DOOM.

[Doom-X-Machina]

AI must fucking die.

[th3_Dru1d]

On 8/13/2024 at 5:46 PM, Major Arlene said:

It won't. ChatGPT is a guessing machine, it's going to be maybe as useful if not less useful than anyone new to DECORATE coding, because it does not know what DECORATE is. DECORATE has extensive documentation on the ZDoom WIKI and you'd be better off reading there.

Yeah I was talking about experimentation. You'd obviously have to feed it reference data first

[Reisal]

I looked at existing code, see how it works, make a copy of it (in my cases, ACTOR stuff) and I managed to write up my own actors when I need to. ChatGPT would need a LOT of basic definition code fed into it so it knows what it is but best way is looking at other code and learn from that. There's still stuff in DECORATE I don't know what to do, let alone ZScript.

[akwisn]

On 8/13/2024 at 11:50 AM, Gifty said:

Burning multiple hundred times more natural resources to do a shittier, plagiaristic version of things that humans are already good at, for people who are too lazy and uncurious to learn themselves. That's the ai way!

AI can't be "plagiaristic" by definition. it has to model everything off of what humans make. If it didn't, it wouldn't look good or make sense.

 

[Major Arlene]

7 minutes ago, akwisn said:

AI can't be "plagiaristic" by definition. it has to model everything off of what humans make. If it didn't, it wouldn't look good or make sense.

 

At the risk of taking this topic off-track, that's not what plagiarism means. It means:
 

Quote

Presenting work or ideas from another source as your own, with or without consent of the original author, by incorporating it into your work without full acknowledgement.

 

Which is what AI does, as I'm sure you're well aware.

 

Secondly, AI is about as useful as the predictive text button on your phone. It does not understand what facts are, only what facts look like. Which is why it may look good, but you absolutely cannot trust it to create a correct DECORATE.

[SMG_Man]

On 8/13/2024 at 12:22 PM, SupremeBioVizier said:

any of you take short cuts while making maps and use AI?

 

if you want zero-effort autogenerated maps, tools have been around for that for a really long time