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Grungo

What would Doom 2 be like if it didn't have the super shotgun

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imagine it as the same doom 2, but with no SSG

 

how would the game be received?

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In no way as well acclaimed, the super shotgun being the foundation of what makes Doom 2 the game it is, and it's mods what they are, not having it would certainly be a killer for Doom's longevity as whole, simply on the basis that the D1 weapon roster is not up for the task of the D2 baddies.

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A lot of the enemies added in Doom II are in the mid-tier health range where it's tedious to kill them with a basic shotgun or chaingun but easy with power weapons like plasma and rockets. Of Doom 1's monsters, only the cacodemon really falls in that range, with everything else having much less health (pinkies and below) or much more (boss monsters, including the baron). The SSG is perfect for those monsters, both for its power level and for its slow rate of fire, which gives combat a nice rhythm and also gives enemies time to act between shots (unlike pain-stunning them with the chaingun or plasma). I think dropping the SSG without making other changes would make the pacing of the combat feel much worse.

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Posted (edited)

Doom II was carried by new creative gimmicks, iconic landmarks, memorable setpieces etc.  I guess it'd be that but chewy.  (see: Urania.wad)

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1 hour ago, Grungo said:

imagine it as the same doom 2, but with no SSG

 

how would the game be received?


Doom 2 would be much worse without the SSG. The SSG was added to deal with the addition of tougher enemies, like the revenant, pain elemental, mancubus, hell knight, and archvile. That weapon is a staple of classic doom, and why the Doom 2 engine is used for most well known wads. 
 

I love classic/ultimate doom but the lack of the ssg sucks. A baron of hell for example, takes around 15 shots to kill with the regular shotgun. It’s great for long range fights, but is otherwise much worse than the ssg. 
 

The ssg makes doom 2 wads much more fun and challenging. It feels strange and definitely more tedious to play wads with the ultimate doom iwad. 

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Posted (edited)

with only the stock Shotgun alone ignoring other rweapon types alone the Archvile, Revenant and Mancubus in particular would be a pain to deal with 

 

Hell Knights and Arachnotrons not in groups would be manageable with favorable damage/spread rolls but still take a bit to go down

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Pretty fucking shit

 

Then after 2 years of its release they would kidnap john romero and throw him in an volcano

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Shepardus said:

A lot of the enemies added in Doom II are in the mid-tier health range where it's tedious to kill them with a basic shotgun or chaingun but easy with power weapons like plasma and rockets. Of Doom 1's monsters, only the cacodemon really falls in that range, with everything else having much less health (pinkies and below) or much more (boss monsters, including the baron). The SSG is perfect for those monsters, both for its power level and for its slow rate of fire, which gives combat a nice rhythm and also gives enemies time to act between shots (unlike pain-stunning them with the chaingun or plasma). I think dropping the SSG without making other changes would make the pacing of the combat feel much worse.

That's not to mention what makes it arguably better than the rocket launcher at times: no blast damage.

A lot of maps would suck ass, or at least decline in quality if the rocket launcher was used to cover the super shotguns role. Imagine having to rocket a hellknight or archvile in more cramped areas, on low health. not to mention, we now have "legacy of rusts" new classic bestiary extension, which involves some enemies between a baron and cyberdemon in strength. the tyrant and Vassago also have some lasting/blast damage, to boot.

Edited by St. Mildly Annoyed

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mapping for it would become significantly less versatile due to the lack of a good close-range, mid-tier weapon. that ties together the entire gameplay loop

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Actually, I played a lot of maps that turned to be repetitive due to the very SSG-centric combats. The lack of SSG would encourage more mappers to rely on other weapons, notably the RL and PG.

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The thing is, aside from the chaingunner it seems every new monster added to DOOM II's bestiary is in the mid/high tier HP range; good for rockets, not so good for regular shotgunning (although the revenant isn't too much a pain in the rear with that). I'd argue they were designed in-tandem; upping the ante of the average monster HP absolutely needed a tool like the SSG for close-quarters combat, lest we be complaining in 2024 that shotgunning Mancubuses got old thirty years ago.

 

No SSG would've (could've?) meant reduced HP for the new monsters. At that, they'd have felt weaker and not as impressive; especially when noting the disparity between something like a (theorerical) 300-500HP Archvile versus the DOOM 1 bosses-now-used-as-normal-monsters.

 

In short, like everyone else is getting at, SSG is central to DOOM II's design identity.

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I feel the SSG was inevitable. Remnants of the concept are seen as far back as the Doom Bible. At some point, I’m sure discussions were had on what would be reserved for a future retail release. Id learned from their mistakes with Spear of Destiny. 

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Balanced and dynamic

 

//KIDDING KIDDING OF COURSE 99% KIDDING

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I feel like slaughter would probably take a little more time to emerge. Like how many trash mobs does one expect to see without something like the SS to help clear things out? It doesn't keep slaughter back entirely naturally but it would encourage things like the RL to be handed out much earlier overall, possibly lead to increased instances of dehacked usage to make punches faster as an example. 

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Posted (edited)

Less oriented around a single weapon? Don't get me wrong  it's a great weapon, but the combination of 2=3 with the absolute omnipresence of shells and egregious value of a single box of shotgun shells (20 out of a 100 per pickup? Come on...), it means it's the go-to weapon 90% of the time. The weapon is great, but it should have been somewhat better balanced. Either slower fire rate, less pellets so the math is closer to the normal shotgun, or reduced the value of the shell box so you can't be using it nearly all the time.

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