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Brad_tilf

MEGAWADS!

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I'm certain this post will get moved to whatever category the moderator deems pertinent but for the time being and since I couldn't figure out where else it might go...
I added 14 more projects to the megawads page of Doom Wad Station today. No, not necessarily new ones, just ones that I found while scouring the internet for just such projects. Included in the stuff that I found were:
Sector 666 - replaces map01 - map11
Chaos Project - maps 01-16,31-32
Dawn of The Dead - Replaces Knee Deep in the Dead
MrDoom30 - 30 levels of deathmatching excitement
Death Tormention II - replaces ALL of the 4th ep of Ultimate Doom as well as a few others.
There are more and it would take me forever to list them all but you get the idea...
Click here to get them all!

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Those wads are classics!


I think, however the term "megawad" is beginning to be a little blurry now.


Single Doom episodes and 11 level Doom2 wads are generally known as "episodes".


Still, it's good stuff.

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Ya - I know most of them are older and I would consider an 8 level replacement for Knee Deep In The Dead as a megawad only because it replaces an entire "episode". I don't think a megawad necessarily needs to be a specific number of levels and I know there has been some discussion in the community on this point more than once but I think 11 levels for Doom2 is a megawad. It may not be a full replacement for the game but stilll... I guess the topic is still up for discussion.
As far it being older - well, ya. there aren't many new ones coming out. Scythe was one that recently got released and the updated Vilecore was another (both of which I have on that page). I also had someone email me the other day to tell me of one that I'm sure many people are NOT aware of called D2Super which is 32 levels but is also a TC - a rare combination. Usually TC's don't replace the entire game these days but some do. I should be posting that one on my TC page later today after I get a chance to play with it a bit. It also comes with alternative levels to the ones that come with the tc and also a Demo of the sequel to the tc.
Has anybody seen this tc before?
Anyway - it will be released on my site today with a link to the authors pages so people can get a good look at what they are doing.

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a megawad should replace an entire episode of doom or doom2 or more.
a partial conversion should replace some game features and maps.
a total conversion should replace most game features and all maps.

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pritch said:

a megawad should replace an entire episode of doom or doom2 or more.
a partial conversion should replace some game features and maps.
a total conversion should replace most game features and all maps.


Yep yep.

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pritch said:

a total conversion should replace most game features and all maps.

Zanzan only had one or two (or three) levels.

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Most total conversions don't replace most of the maps or even a fair portion of them. If you use that as a definition, very few Total Conversions exist. Only a handful really.

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pritch said:

a total conversion should replace most game features and all maps.

I agree with the "most game features". I don't agree with the "all maps". As Bob said, if one used that definition, then almost none of the non-commercial wads out there would qualify as a TC.

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I imagine if it's a total conversion then the maps you will be playing will be new, as well as all the graphics and such...

Something that replaces ALL the textures of EVERYTHING in the game, but replaces no maps would be a PC. Something that replaces even just 5 maps but those are the only ones that are meant to be played would be a TC.

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I'd introduce an amendment in the source port era that says as long as the game ends with the last level of a TC, say 20 or whatever, then that's ok.

If you just suddenly find yourself on a horrible texture mashed version of ordinary map21 it's not.

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sheesh, i HATE when i'm playing a really good wad and when it goes from map 6 to map 7, it says the same freakin' story as regular doom2! then when i beat the last level, it just says "the biggest visage of the most blah blah blah blah." that's a great site tho. i just found it about a week ago.

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Here are my definitions
total conversion - replaces most or all of the weapons and sprites and has at least a few new levels to go along with it.
No, it doesn't totally replace the game maps but pretty much everything else has been done.
There really are very few TOTAL conversions if you use replacing ALL the maps to define such a creation. I'm willing to bet you could probably tick them off on one hand.

Megawads - hmmm, a blurry area. As I said earlier - I think 8 or more levels - mostly because an entire episode in Doom is 8 levels. So, if that is a megawad in Doom then it would follow that it is a megawad in Doom2. I believe that MOST megawads do replace all the levels or at least a majority of them do.

Some people blur the line between TC and Megawad because a Megawad can contain alot of new features such as weapons, sprites and textures and still be considered a megawad but not a TC because it only replaced some things and not all things.

Hellraiser was a TC if you use the definition of needing to replace all the maps and replacing all other game things like weapons, sprites, music, etc...
Some people actually complained that it was too much not like Doom2
That was kind of the point and is to most TC's - to use the engine with new stuff to basically create a new game or TC.

I'm trying to think of some other megawad/tc that did as much. HACX was certainly one. Aliens vs. Predator Vs. Terminator is another that comes to mind. Star Trek and Star Wars (original) both (I believe) meet the criteria for both. Can anyone think of any others that by definition (replace ALL maps, textures, sounds, etc...) are total conversions?

I guess the point of this is that if we use that definition to define what a TC is then my Total Conversions page would be a pointless endeavor. Most of the tc's there do NOT meet that requirement of replacing all maps and therefore would have to be considered partial conversions.

Whatever tho, they are all fun to play.
:-)

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I thought megawads were 15+ levels. That's the cutoff in /idgames for them to be put into the megawads dir anyway.

8 levels would just be an episode replacement, so for Doom you'd need two episodes for it to be a megwad (or like one and a half).

TC I don't think needs to have any more than one map (no maps makes it a mod), so not all TCs are megawads nor do they really have to be. I'd also go as far to say that a TC shouldn't use any original Doom monsters or weapons, so for instance if you replaced only like 4 monsters and three weapons but those were the only ones you used in the map(s) then I'd call it a TC, albeit a small one.

It really is a tough thing to put into categories though...

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Well, Little Faith, if you you think Hellraiser should be overhauled, please volunteer to do so. Since I released that - I forget how many years agon now, I have lost touch with every one of the original members of the team. Wolfy just disappeared one day without a trace, Jeremy Stepp I WAS back in contact with for awhile but again - gone. He is notoriously unreliable as far as haning around. Last I knew he was working on recreating larger sprites for the new Zdoom engine.
Kent - In school and unreachable for the most part for the better part of the last two years and I'll tell you what - I don't have the time to redo that project on my own.
By the way - exactly what do you think needs to be done on it? It has consistently been one of the most popular downloads on my site for years and has consistently been one of the best reviewed of the stuff on my site. I have gotten quite a bit of mail over the years from people who really enjoyed it.
I think I saw you say something about redoing it in another thread some time ago but you never really said what it is you think needs to be done.
It was a collaboration of some very good mappers and a very good artist (Jeremy Stepp). We put the whole thing together in a matter of months as opposed to years and while there may be some areas that are lacking do to the speed with which we finished the project I am quite proud of the results. There was a tremendous diversity of maps and difficulties in the TC based on about 4 or 5 different authors vision and I thought Jeremy did a great job on the sprites, etc...
I also thought the Zdoom version came out awesome despite some difficulties I had with linedefs not translating properly in some parts of certain maps that needed to be rectified.
I thought parts of it could have been better but I feel like changing it now is like colorizing movies (something I don't tend to agree with). But, if you feel it needs to be reworked, tell me what you think needs to be done and I'll see if I agree and if I want to make the changes.

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Brad_tilf: well there's Batman of course, and Ghostbusters Doom 2. There's also Covert Ops and Twilight Warrior, although I'm not sure if they really count because while they have brand new weapons, enemies and levels, they use mainly original Doom 2 or Doom 2 based textures. Come to think of it, Ghostbusters Doom 2 used a lot of Doom 2 (based) textures too.

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mawcor624 said:

people: if you want better megawads, go make a good one!

i think everyone's tried making their own megawad before. that's why there's so few of them.

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Heh, yeah, I was going to make a 6-level episode and died after two levels.

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Nanami said:

Heh, yeah, I was going to make a 6-level episode and died after two levels.


pfft, amateur :P

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Nanami said:

Heh, yeah, I was going to make a 6-level episode and died after two levels.

I die halfway through the first level :P

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A megawad is certainly much easier as a collaberation as opposed to a single person endeavor. I have 3 levels of Descent Into Hell done and because I have a very busy life it may well take me years to finish it, if ever, but I'll give it the old college try.
:-)

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Fredrik said:

I die halfway through the first level :P

I usually finish the first level and lose inspiration for the rest. :P Look at what happened to Abydian, Oasis, Azoras, Asylum, Q2rev, ITSC, and a lot of my other unreleased projects.

(actually I released everything I have done for Q2rev which you can find on my site; DONT USE THE CHAINGUN)

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mawcor624 said:

sheesh, i HATE when i'm playing a really good wad and when it goes from map 6 to map 7, it says the same freakin' story as regular doom2! then when i beat the last level, it just says "the biggest visage of the most blah blah blah blah." that's a great site tho. i just found it about a week ago.


who fucking care about that anyway?.

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hey, I made a megawad by myself, do I get a cookie now?

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