The DWmegawad Club plays: Community Chest 3

[vdgg]

MAP16. One of these maps that I know they exist, but if you had asked me last month "in which megaWAD is this map with brown rock / water canyons?", I would have had no idea. This is linear and very fine, actually. I don't mind SSG and BFG in secrets (first playthrough I didn't find them) as you have sooooo much ammo for rocket laucher and plasma gun... Good new textures thrown into the mix. There is both simplicity here and some charm. I like the looks of a totally square room with an arachnotron, for example.

[Capellan]

Map18

A couple of slightly dodgy design decisions here, but they don’t significantly blemish a fun romp through a cool-looking environment.  A key strength of the map is its multiple connections, allowing the player plenty of options for how to progress.  It's a fun place to explore, and the action's pretty good, too.  A notable improvement on the previous few levels, this one.

 

[Celestin]

MAP17: Mind's Prison by Andy Leaver

 

First of all, a round of applause for Andy Leaver, the only person whose maps made their way to all 4 Community Chest wads. As for Mind's Prison, I like it a lot. It feels more consistant with its visuals, having clean design, varied texture choice and lacking excessive detailing. Leaver was more focused on creating a good-looking techbase than adding doomcute at every step and I see this as a sign of maturity that many previous maps of CC3 lacks.

 

Combat-wise, Mind's Prison throws a lot of weak monsters at you in large rooms, which means you'll be sniping a lot of hitscanners. The two big fights by the end are fine, first is a battle in a pool for the red key, spawning a lot of monsters that you can blow with a rocket launcher. The other one is the second visit in the prison (first one boils down to sniping caged shotgunners), where cacodemons and shotgunners awaits.

 

While hardly breaking any new ground, Mind's Prison feels much more developed than the bulk of CC3. You can definitely feel a hand of a veteran here.

[RICHIE B]

MAP 18: THAT PHOBUS LEVEL (Godforsaken Hole)
ZDoom, continuous, keyboard only, no saves, UV Max

 

Onto Phobus' map now. PCorf was the only other CC3 mapper I'd played before, twice. AFAIK the only Phobus map I played was TNT Revilution's Map 20, the one with the big hangar, and I thought that was good. Let's see how this map is from a decade earlier.

 

A hot start. Looks like E4 to start with, and that Monster Condo music is playing. So maybe this will play something like Monster Condo done in E4. I can hear a revenant shouting somewhere.

A lot of blood but it's non damaging. That's a relief.

 

Seems very non-linear, so you never play the same way twice. It all looks and plays so much like a Doom II level. If this had been shipped out in 1994 instead of Monster Condo it would have fit right in, but I'd rather swap it out with Barrels O'Shit or the Chore-sm.

 

There's a secret-ish berserk some way into the map, you'll absolutely need it for pistol start. No chainsaw to also help save ammo though. There's about 3 green armors I think, but no blue. There are plenty of bonuses which somehow give this even more of a Doom II feel.

 

A red key activates 4 switches around the level to open the final area. Each switch results in a teleport trap. A secret teleporter opens up at 2 of these locations at some point, but I don't know when or how to trigger them. One ends up in the soulsphere from the start, the other the BFG.

 

At one point there is a strip of blood to cross that for some reason suddenly does 20 damage, when AFAIK the same texture elsewhere is fine.

This is definitely not one of the hardest levels yet I died 8 times. Starting at over 300 monsters it is one of the longest though.

Loses marks for that crap crusher at the end, almost impossible to avoid damage on the way through. I seem to manage to avoid it going back through though.

 

Deaths: 8
Deaths so far: 75
Secrets: 3/6 (41/85 total)

 

EDIT: Forgot to add my Phobus pic. This was really cool.

Edited September 18 by RICHIE B

[Capellan]

The key to the crusher near the end seems to be that you have to time it so you arrive at the crusher, already running, just as it clears high enough for you to get in.  If you bump into it and stop, you shouldn't try to go through, but should go back for another attempt.

 

Once I adopted that strategy, I got through safely every time.

[RICHIE B]

2 hours ago, Capellan said:

The key to the crusher near the end seems to be that you have to time it so you arrive at the crusher, already running, just as it clears high enough for you to get in.  If you bump into it and stop, you shouldn't try to go through, but should go back for another attempt.

 

Once I adopted that strategy, I got through safely every time.

Still couldn't get it to work going in. Coming back through the other way is always fine but never going in. Still don't like that crusher. Too little leeway like the one in the back of the slime cave in Black Rain.

[RHhe82]

MAP18: Godforsaken Hole (Phobus). Played on UV, pistol start. DSDA v0.27.5. K: 280/280, I: 189/189, S: 6/6. Comp. time 42:07

 

I'm a bit on the fence with this one. At first I was feeling a bit down with the ammo starvation. I guess I took the wrong direction at the start. Ammo is not plentiful here, I had to good fortune of stumbling across the secrets, not knowing exactly how they were revealed to me. The BFG makes a world of difference in some encounters.

 

When the ammo situation sort of sorted itself out, I started enjoying more, although I still think it's a bit backtracky: once you get the RSK, you'll have to make another round thru the map and hope to remember, where you saw the RSK switches, each of which launches an attack at you. That's a downside. As an upside, I think the combat is fun, and as a major upside, the mapper tag seen near the end of the map is one of the coolest, if not *THE* coolest one I've seen in my Doom history. Well done indeed!

[Devalaous]

Level 18: Godforsaken Hole

 

I was going to make a groan inducing joke about the level's title, but ive been very *very* busy today helping port stuff to Kex Doom, so I don't have the energy.

 

So, playing the daily map today was less of an obligation, and more of a break really, so its lucky for me then that I enjoyed today's map! Set in some dark hellish caverns, this map gives you a goal in sight from the very beginning; to collect that red key up in the window, and then use it to lower all the red bars later on in the level. Opposition is fierce from the get go, and I got my ass kicked by all kinds of enemy ambushes from some really trollish places, but unlike 32 and 16, I never once got mad. My tastes are pretty specific, and apparantly divisive, as its common for me to like a map that most others dislike (Like Map 15 in this wad), but yeah, ive gotten good enough at the game that a lot of these encounters I can get through with some fast thinking, just dont hand me a BFG and throw me up against silly odds with it, I actively dislike the BFG and prefer any other weapon to pick apart fights, with the exception of using it as an Archvile deleter or boss killer, given the high rate of death/injury when BFG rushing bosses for a single-tap/double-tap.

 

The skeleton in the closet behind the backpack on a pillar secret didnt make me rage, it made me laugh, to the point it killed me outright. What DID annoy me was the unavoidable crusher on the path to the exit, especially since you can go under it, take the damage, realise the path is shut, have to take the crusher damage again, then a third time on the way back. Grade A trolling. You do get some health bonuses to soften the blow, but even with perfect play, your not getting out with 200 health

 

The mapper signature on this level is amazing btw, theres a series of odd shapes in the darkness in one of the final caverns, and if you look at them dead on and strafe, the shapes will line up and spell 'Phobus'. It made my jaw drop. That is so much cooler than the giant TGH! on the automap of previous maps ;p

 

Tomorrow is a Use3D map. As is No Tomorrow.

 

I will have to tackle it early while I still have energy, as, as ive already said, his maps tend to exhaust me, but at least this time its in a good slot for its length. I enjoyed the previous four ive played, once I had time to sit back and reflect on them, so ive got some positivity for tomorrow.

[RICHIE B]

13 hours ago, RICHIE B said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Devalaous said:

The mapper signature on this level is amazing btw, theres a series of odd shapes in the darkness in one of the final caverns, and if you look at them dead on and strafe, the shapes will line up and spell 'Phobus'. It made my jaw drop.

 

8 hours ago, RHhe82 said:

...as a major upside, the mapper tag seen near the end of the map is one of the coolest, if not *THE* coolest one I've seen in my Doom history. Well done indeed!

 

I totally forgot to post about this - yeah it was amazing!

[vdgg]

MAP17. Fully orthogonal, yet I loved this. The music, the theme / texturing, ammo supply, plenty of action. The red key area reminded me a lot Vile Flesh MAP02 yellow key area (that one had slime, this one has water). Also, nice touch in the same area with forcing me jumping down to the water, getting rocket launcher ready and teleporting pinkies in my face! (This is easily escaped by just not shooting BTW).

[Celestin]

MAP18: Godforsaken Hole by Phobus

 

First of all, I like the visuals. Godforsaken Hole does a great job combining caves and ancient temples in an organic way, the details compliment the map, rather than try to cover bland design and the interconnected nature of the level manages to impress. 

 

However, I find the map to be overly long and confusing. Godforsaken Hole lifts the overall concept from Darkdome, where you first have to find a key, then sift through the map in search of switches that unlock the way to the exit. This whole task took me way more time than it should have, as I ended up running around, searching for a one switch that couldn't locate (it was right next to the yellow key). The combat is fine at first, a lot of enemies at once to kill with a chaingun, but I've encountered ammo issues in the first half of the map. It's partly because I was stumbling blindly through the map and visiting numerous dead ends, partly because MAP18 can be stingy with resources. Nevertheless, once I found backpack, berserk and BFG in secrets plus a rocket launcher in a side corridor, this became less of an issue.

 

Every switch I've mentioned earlier spawns an ambush, BFG really carried me through this. Considering my early ammo troubles, Phobus is generous with cells, so in the latter half I could eliminate anything with ease. Also, the seemingly-random beams that form the author's handle when seen from a specific angle is a cool piece of detail.

 

I think if I was more lucky with how the map lead me, I'd have a better time. Quality-wise, Godforsaken Hole is above the CC3's average, but it can turn into a lenghty search where little happen.

[Capellan]

Map19

This whole megawad is much too fond of 64-wide corridors, but at least in this one they’re combined with some invisible teleports for fun faux-3d shenanigans.  These were integrated quite well, I thought.

 

 

[LadyMistDragon]

I spent far too much time here to spend many words on this but in any case

 

 

Map 18: Godforsaken Hole

by James Cresswell @Phobus

UV, pistol-start, Nugget Doom

 

Here arrives one of the most celebrated maps of the set, at least back in 2007. At this point, I'm pretty sure Phobus was still a relative unknown but he'd go on to contribute to many other wads, culminating in 2020's 25 Years Later. He doesn't appear to have had an especially prolific mapping career since then and has had at least one significant period of absence from the community, which usually happens when one gets older and has to juggle more adult responsibilities.

 

But in general, this can be said to lay out Phobus' mapping philosophy: generally open maps with decent interconnectibility, enemy placement that forbids recklessness, along with an uncanny ability to make vanilla rock textures look good. This is also one of two maps where the default music hasn't been replaced. I suppose that's because it actually kind of works here. But "Waiting for Romero to Play" tends to come across soporific more often than not unfortunately.

 

Nevertheless, it's decent enough as a hellish underground map with some incredibly tasteful attempts at design. Also the path to the yellow key is basically linear and due to a Baron in a narrow tunnel, sort of requires one has picked up the Super Shotgun from the back of a particular wooden structure, which is located behind enough Mancubi and pinkies that there might prove trouble. Though there is a Plasma Rifle on a platform with an Arachnotron but there aren't really a whole lot of cells starting out.

 

Once the red key is found, we then have to engage with a Dark Dome-esque design choice and hit a number of switches that are located throughout the map. Thankfully this map is much smaller and there's only 4 of them, although there is one whose location wasn't so obvious. When each switch is pushed, a respectable amount of enemies will get teleported in nearby. A zombieman bringing up the rear in the first one qas quite amusing.

 

Once the red key bars are lowered it becomes important to save ammo. Punch pinkies, punch Imps, punch Revenants and there should be enough for everything else because things get quite claustrophobic. At least the secret BFG is not terribly difficult to access. The room with what I presume to be Phobus' signature was actually pretty nice. One brain fart later, we're at the exit and taking out the single Hell Knight and Mancubus placed awlwardly there. Not one of my favorites really but arguably is one of the least grindy maps for those who play it correctly.

 

 

 

[HiMyNameIsChair]

MAP17: Mind's Prison by Andy Leaver

 

played on DSDA, UV Pistol Start / 100% kills / 50% secrets / 21:12

 

 

Community Chest veteran Andy Leaver comes up to bat once more, and you know what, it's alright. Andy's visuals, while very square and orthogonal are clean and simple. Theres maybe a bit of a fixation on hitscanners, but his placements do keep the action going at a decent pace. Might be a few too many chaingunners in wide open spaces though. The Red key fight while not reinventing the wheel is a good opportunity to cut loose in a bigger fight.

 

Not much to say here, perfectly fine map. Not gonna blow anyone's mind, and it's got some blemishes, but it's solid work.

 

Grade: B-

 

Order of Preference

 

Spoiler

MAP02: Ion Storm

MAP13: Welcome to the Machine

MAP12: Black Rain

MAP31: Disarming the Mechanism 

MAP09: As the Doctor Sleeps

MAP17: Mind Prison

MAP16: Hangman's Noose

MAP01: Ventilator

MAP07: Simple Complex

MAP10: Atlantis Rising

MAP32: Installation 07 Warszawa

MAP15: Clash of Galaxies

MAP14: Mountains and Mortars

MAP11: The Grieving Outpost

MAP08: Impure Liquids

MAP03: Mineopoly

MAP04: UAC Checkpoint

MAP06: Foregone Destruction

MAP05: Living Hell

 

[Horus]

Time to catch-up...

 

MAP32 - “Installation 07 Warszawa” by Shadow Dweller, The Green Herring

 

I don’t have a lot to say about this map, it isn’t an unenjoyable map, but it feels low-effort, a speedmap, or both. It’s almost perfectly symmetrical, in geometry, texturing and monster placement, and is inevitably predictable as a result. The incidental combat at the start turns into BFG and rocket-led setpieces once you enter the hellish realm, mostly rewarding cheap tactics such as circle-strafing and camping. This isn’t exactly the pinnacle of map design - but it isn’t meant to be.

 

MAP16 - “Hangman’s Noose” by Shadow Dweller, The Green Herring

 

Returning after the second secret map, we have another map by this duo, but it plays and feels differently. The first thing I notice about this map is the TNT map 1 MIDI (Sadistic), usually one of my favourite TNT MIDIs, although I don’t like the way it sounds on the KEX port :/

 

The dark techbase start that feels the one familiar thing seen a number of CC3 maps so far soon give away to watery canyons. Ammo is a little tight in places, and combat feels fairly formulaic and inoffensive.

 

Suddenly, just like in map 32, we’re off to hell again, and suddenly the combat becomes heated. The opening skirmish on the star platform felt mean enough with the craftily placed shotgunners amongst others, but the chaingunner placement after the switch was very mean! Fortunately, one can teleport onto a megasphere which grants you the necessary health and armor to deal with the onslaught. Overall an improvement on map 32 but won’t my troubling my top maps of the set.

 

MAP17 - “Mind’s Prison” by Andy Leaver

 

And here we are with the dark techbase again! 😊It has a bit meat to it throughout the map in terms of combat, which makes it more engaging than the last map, even if some the ambushes can be nullified by door camping and retreating.

 

The progression could be a little clearer at times, e.g. the switch that lowers the yellow key platform is a mile away from the platform itself, without any repopulating areas to guide the player towards it. The red key exit door simply leading to the exit switch without even a final ambush also felt like a bit of an anti-climax, but overall I’m happy to have more engaging gameplay again.

 

MAP18 - “Godforsaken Hole” by Phobus

 

Since I’m playing on the KEX port, the Andrew Hulshult remixes of the Doom MIDIs are available, and I have them enabled by default. His remix of Waiting for Romero to Play makes it feel like a different track entirely. Still atmospheric, but more creepy than the original. Which in turn makes the map feel more creepy as well, and builds more tension than I might otherwise have felt. I think it complements the dark, hostile feel of this hellish map pretty well.

 

This godforsaken hole takes no prisoners, with a very tight ammo situation that felt like I was always running out but found another stash just when it felt like all was lost. There are also 6 secrets, none of them particularly cryptic, and all of them welcome (except the blursphere!). The secrets certainly weren’t overpowered, but just give a little helping hand.

 

Whilst sprawling might be exaggerating somewhat, this is certainly a non-linear map, with many branching pathways that reconnect with each other at various points, and as a result, lead to various ways of tackling the map. I imagine some routes are more optimal than others, but I managed okay. Health is somewhat sparse and I ran with <50% health for most of the map, except when I found the two spheres.

 

Combat is mostly incidental, except for ambushes when you pick up the yellow key and press the red key switches, but is fun in both cases. And I too appreciated the PHOBUS surrounded by Fireblu at the end. I had a lot of fun with this one, definitely a contender together with map 14 for my favourite so far.

[HiMyNameIsChair]

MAP18: Godforsaken Hole by James Cresswell (Phobus)

 

Played on DSDA, UV Pistol Start / 97% Kills / 83% Secrets / Time: 35:08

 

 

Just when CC3 looked like it was clawing it's way out of the pit it dug itself into... here comes Godforsaken Hole to cause it slip all the way down. what a trainwreck.

 

Godforsaken Hole is aptly named because it's a poorly balanced, boring, overly long mess with a layout that's a pain in the ass to get around. The idea to base it around hitting several red key switches while...uh, interesting, is so laughably executed. There are so many nooks that are needlessly hard to find and that count as actual progression you are likely to find all the switches before the key itself, causing the playtime to bloat.

 

Gameplay isn't much better, because while the open scramble for guns has some life to it, once you get a foothold, it fucking DRAGS.  Just a bunch of incidentally placed monsters scattered around and the cherry on top: the layout is such a mess, I ended up entering rooms in ways where monsters were facing away from me and still sleeping, multiple times. The switches that you have to press to open timed doors do not help. There are ambushes that come in with each red key switch but it's essentially just gobs of monsters thrown in with not a lot of rhyme or reason. The self-indulgent mapper signature where you line up sectors is neat, but i'd trade it for an entirely new room, because fuck this room. Full of lost souls, decorations to get caught on while getting rev rockets and manc fireballs flung at you, and it puts the tightest fucking death grip on your supplies for no goddamn reason. it's a dumpster fire of a room and almost all my death came from it.

 

What really sours me on Godforsaken Hole is it doesn't even look all that great. While there are flashes of some solid marble hell here and there, Phobus pinballs between techbase flourishes, natural caves, wood, and... slime? in hell for some reason? sure I guess? Its aesthetics aren't even functional because some of the low ceilings can get you stuck on the bits of the environment. Don't even get me started on these...uh.. staaaaiiirs??? are those stairs? their so steep and the steps so wildly inconsistent that i think they qualify as ladders. Overall, really sloppy stuff here, just shows a lack of planning. sometimes... a lift works just fine.

 

 

 

 

Godforsaken Hole is overly long, poorly planned, poorly balanced and it's visuals betray that it's the work of a then-amateur mapper, and it's only because of that fact I'll spare it an F.

 

Grade: D-

 

Order of Preference

 

Spoiler

MAP02: Ion Storm

MAP13: Welcome to the Machine

MAP12: Black Rain

MAP31: Disarming the Mechanism 

MAP09: As the Doctor Sleeps

MAP17: Mind Prison

MAP16: Hangman's Noose

MAP01: Ventilator

MAP07: Simple Complex

MAP10: Atlantis Rising

MAP32: Installation 07 Warszawa

MAP15: Clash of Galaxies

MAP14: Mountains and Mortars

MAP11: The Grieving Outpost

MAP08: Impure Liquids

MAP03: Mineopoly

MAP04: UAC Checkpoint

MAP06: Foregone Destruction

MAP18: Godforsake Hole

MAP05: Living Hell

Sorry Phobus, at least your CC4 stuff is better.

Edited September 19 by HiMyNameIsChair

[Devalaous]

Level 19: Subduction

 

Hey, who turned out the lights? CC3 is very darkness oriented, I swear. I have to close all the curtains and blinds in my office just to see anything in a lot of these maps. I apparantly didn't get much sleep last night, as I still ended up playing a Use3D map tired :D

 

Its actually not as fuckmassive as CC1 and 2's maps of his, still has that trademark impressive scale and detail though. Progression is a bit cryptic, and the secrets are almost all nasty 'one chance only fucko!' types, with a hint of Guide Dang It, so your likely not getting a natural UV Max.

 

The map is basically two 'halves', the red key side and the blue key side, with an underground crypt sorta place connecting them via silent teleporters, just like in Map 1. Annoyingly, you have to go through the underground crypt, come up on the other side of the map to push a switch, then have to backtrack through the whole thing. The barred off areas without red skulls never opened for me at any point, so I either did a forbidden lockout action like what happened with a secret, or something broke. I almost got stuck after realising that since its Boom, Red Skull/Red Keycard are not the same, before finding out only one of the two doors in the starting room heading east, was decorative/unresponsive. Had some good fun out here, especially since some of the ambushes I neutered due to windows into the area from earlier (I love it when you can dismantle or cripple a trap from a hidden window or vantage point, loved it ever since E1M3 of original Doom). Im not sure what the point of the blood draining pit was, since you raise it right back up?

 

Not much to say about the northern section, although I did like the weird square 'arena' that spits out corpses at you and then some live imps. Reminded me of Kaiser's Legacy of Rust map, only I didnt get a key.

 

All in all, I had fun with this, but im never a fan of permanent lockout secrets, especially when you dont know youve done so. The Demon eye one is fair, three choices, hints at what one is the right one, and locked out if you pick the wrong one. The southern secret with the crusher in it, I had locked it off before even getting to it, and I dont know why. Use has been a fan of this kind of thing for a while, since it occurs in DTWID, but I'll always prefer repeatable chnces, whether its annoying platforming on a timer, the price of failure being a walk around half the map, etc. It feels good to figure out a puzzle and finally reach something, like unravelling Gooberman's Dis Union in LoR

 

Next up is a 400 monster behemoth, with a Metallica midi of all things. My only prior experience with Dr Zin, is Geist Halls from CC2, an enjoyable sleeper hit map. Fun useless fact: 32in24 SP, also has Use3D and Dr Zin maps back to back.

[RHhe82]

MAP19: Subduction (USE3D). Played on UV, pistol start. DSDA v0.27.5. K: 334/334, I: 105/130, S: 2/5. Comp. time 44:16

 

Eviternity's MAP19 - Dehydration - is a great map, and while it did not make me fear mapslot 19, I'm now starting to fear it. It's not like Subduction is a bad map, when looking at individual areas. The areas look carefully crafted, there's ample detailing, and yet... and yet the gameplay didn't tickle my fancy; at first the areas seem a bit too open, and before long it starts to get exhausting the same way some of Evilution maps do: not because it's particularly hard, but because it just draaaaags on, and because I'm lost on how to progress, I'm backtracking and wandering around and slowly burning out.

 

When I finally reach the exit, I have all the kills, but only two of five secrets. I had a bad feeling, since one of the secrets I got was a soulsphere, which I found out by reloading a save it'll become inaccessible if one pressed the wrong button. Indeed, when I started looking at Doomwiki for the rest of the secrets, the first one I had missed was also inaccessible if I had already passed thru the area. That's it when I decided to not give a fuck and just enter the exit to get the stats above. (In hindsight I could have gotten the other two missed secrets, but whatever).

 

When I saw the mapping credit it all made sense. Imminent CC1 MAP1X flashbacks, not in a good way. Although, writing this review some 20 minutes later I can't bring myself to be too negative about Subduction, because indeed, looking at individual parts, it's not that bad, but it's the whole that makes me never want to replay this again.

Edited September 19 by RHhe82

[erzboesewicht]

MAP18: Godforsaken Hole by James Cresswell (Phobus)

 

A sprawling underground cavern level, there are extremely low ceilings in some parts making it almost claustrophobic at times. Visually the map is a wild hellish texture mix and strikingly different from most other CC3 offerings so far. The exploration aspect is king here, a big part of the monster population is incidental, with only relatively small group fights. These take place mostly after you hit the red switches and aren't difficult as most of the monsters will care to take out themselves fast. I suspect this level wont't win a popularity contest today, and it is sometimes a bit slow-paced. However I enjoyed the different spaces to explore, and the interconnections are really cool. Fun situation: Near the end I tried to arch-vile jump into the strange ashwall-pillar/Fireblu area where an arrow seems to lead you, only to land inside a death pit. Just a bit later I saw that the arrow is actually telling you where to *look at*, not where to jump. And it's really quite a cool mapper logo. So the good news is: all archies can be safely killed.

 

Difficulty: 3/10 - Rating: 7/10

 

MAP19: Subduction by Mike Alfredson (Use3d)

 

An extense brown complex with some outdoor areas and several non-damaging blood channels, again with many interconnections. I think the standout element of this map is the underground connection between the two western areas, made with a similar Boom silent teleport or portal as in MAP01. This underground area unfortunately is sealed off later without good reason (replayability, perhaps?), so two very helpful secrets could then be out of reach. Two of the secrets need to be found with the first try, one is particularly dickish because it is sealed off by a switch you would normally activate before even seeing the secret's entrance and there is no clear hint that you shouldn't activate that switch. For the soulsphere in the underground section I discovered a hint after I solved it with a save and trial and error, but it's not exactly obvious. The map is again of the exploration-style type. Visually it's typical Doom2 or Ultimate Doom stuff with some non-vanilla textures but the moving parts, the different height levels and interconnectivity make it interesting. Regarding gameplay, much of it is incidental and tends to use cramped configurations often with nobles. I found the SSG only very late and rockets are sparse so the map was quite slow-paced for me. There are some larger warp-in ambushes, but they can be mostly escaped easily, with one exception: an imp island in the middle of a (likely) death pit. For me, this map was enjoyable with minor flaws, like most offerings I've played from this author.

 

Difficulty: 4/10 - Rating: 8/10

 

(UV, saves, pistol-starts, prboom-plus)

[Phobus]

As the majority of feedback is in on Godforsaken Hole, I figured I'd drop a few notes from memory. Thanks all, for giving it a go. I've enjoyed reading the feedback and seeing how it fits into your various perspectives of a WAD that I felt didn't garner as much response as it should've back in it's day.

 

The actual making of this map was actually brought about by Tormentor667 PMing me on the ZDoom Forums to let me know that he'd dropped a map in and they still needed another one. Having only been in the community for a couple of years, and not having been in a proper community project to that point, I was very excited! I'd developed a lot in a few years since discovering the forums, the community and Doom Builder (via the scripted credits in ZDCMP#1, funnily enough). Bigger, more detailed maps, non-linearity, feature usage and hints of humour and meta-nods like author signatures were all still new and exciting to me, and community projects were a rare thing back then, as opposed to now where there's a hundred on the go at any one time.

 

For reasons I'll never be able to explain, my PC at the time just couldn't handle Doomworld (specifically, logging in), so although I had an account, I wasn't active on the forums and I think I passed the map to Tormentor667 to submit, or found another PC to borrow for the process. Just a quirk of the machine at the time. It meant I was very much operating in a bubble and had no idea what CC3 was really about or what sort of maps it contained.

 

I actually got the map together quite quickly, sticking to the v1.9 actions as I didn't know Boom very well (and was basically just a ZDoom mapper at that point), and made something that matched my preferences. I've never been a fan of having excessive ammo, and like the difficulty that comes from the resources being relatively tightly-balanced against the opposition (my ideal version of UV). Chuck in the benefits to accuracy of ZDoom's physics model vs. the classic Doom engine and my maps have weathered many complaints of tight ammo over the years. I wouldn't change a thing on that front, although I think the monster composition is a bit meat-wall heavy early on and the map benefits from continuous play. My more recent maps tend to have a very fast-paced early game based around mowing down hitscanners and Imps with a chaingun whilst weathering chip damage and incidental ambushes from individual enemies in corners or on ledges. This map is more about using a chaingun whilst pushing to an SSG and a pair of shell boxes on either path through Demons and Hell Knights with damaging turreted enemies. After the SSG is in hand (very easy to miss if you go right rather than left) it's an exploration map, which I like.

 

What I don't like, and would change (in fact, did change in whatever Persephone volume this is in), is the final crusher. Whilst it can be just about dodged, I do think it's too tight and it's very easy to get caught by it on low health, which is just needlessly cruel. It would also be nice for all four switches to appear as red lines on ports that support that, as opposed to most ports where only three show because the one by the yellow skull is a 1-sided linedef and the other three aretwo-sided. Otherwise I'm fine with the map as-is. It's got a lot going on, a vaguely hellish cave theme explored in many ways and probably more people like it than dislike it on average.

 

Fun fact: the "perspective illusion" mapper tag was inspired by the same source as a lot of my wackier ideas back then... Nintendo. Specifically, Pokemon Snap, which has a very clever bonus picture in a cave where there's a load of stalagmites and scrap metal that cast a Kingler shadow when viewed from just the right angle with your light source. I'm very proud of making it work in Doom. Originally the flashing arrow was actually a triggerable secret sector around the Evil Eye, but whoever did QC (TGH?) changed that to the arrow instead, which is also fine.

 

I've not been much of a mapper since releasing my Irkalla map, but I've not been totally inactive, either. Since about 2016 I've been starting various ambitious projects and noting down ideas for many more, with something like 8 WIP projects stuck in various early-phases at this point, with a few maps made and other things set up. One such idea is to make a sequel to this map, probably titled "Another Godforsaken Hole" that takes the same premise but might use a more feature-rich port or compatibility level and will definitely benefit from another 17+ years of mapping experience. Maybe I'll get something out, and maybe one day I'll get through my full list of ideas. We'll see...

 

EDIT: Oh, and a note on the music - back then I listened to music via Windows Media Player whilst playing Doom, and didn't have a decent source of MIDIs (I was yet to discover vgmusic and the various MIDI song sites), so would either release maps with no music or just leave it with the default option. I got better about this later, although whether those of you who have endured my 80s-00s rock and metal MIDI choices think that's an improvement or not is a matter of taste...

[HiMyNameIsChair]

MAP19: Subduction by Mike Alfredson (Use3d)

 

played on DSDA, UV Pistol Start / 196% kills / 60% secrets / 36:55

 

 

So genuinely a bit of shock.. but I don't mind this one actually, and im not sure why. i think a lot of that is thanks to Used3D's superb midi and skybox choice, with the Duke midi pairing nicely with the dreamy dark azure sky. it really ratchets up the otherworld factor of this map. It also helps that Subduction succeeds where Godforsaken Hole fell flat, creating a much more palpable sense of place, and most importantly: creating a world actually worth exploring. Unsurprisingly Alfredson's craftsmanship is some of the strongest of the WAD, and his map is dripping with atmosphere, with the aesthetic high point probably being the carefully lit green brick catacombs.. although maybe that's just me being an Alien Vendetta fangirl.

 

 

Unsurprisingly, Alfredson as usual shows superb technical control with his silent teleports,  3D sectors, voodoo trickery, and neat setpieces like a flood of corpses coming through a set of teleporters. Although I may have found 1 possible softlock, where in the northwest room with the marble pillars, the door locks behind you and if you take the teleporter down the stairs back to hub before you open the back way into the catacombs, I'm not sure you can get back in. Gameplay-wise... well it's what you'd expect from Used3D, although his usually cryptic order of operations is actually fairly bearable this time, mainly because process of elimination will generally carry you through. i was initially concerned ammo would be tight, but tBH as long as you get some stuff to infight you'll have a ton of breathing room.

 

enjoyed secret hunting this one, especially the eye lodged in the baron face, very clever! i think one was a timed secret, which I'm not always a fan of, but a small nitpick.

 

While it runs a bit long and it does contain some of the quirks that may cause players to stumble in his maps, I had a perfectly good time with Subduction. I'm not sure i'd be in a rush to replay it, but I enjoyed it all the same. Alfredson's ability to craft memorable locales is as always the glue that keeps his maps together. His craftsmanship don't always manage to carry his odd progression choices, but in this case I think they even out. overall a perfectly solid map.

 

Grade: B-

 

Spoiler

MAP02: Ion Storm

MAP13: Welcome to the Machine

MAP12: Black Rain

MAP31: Disarming the Mechanism 

MAP09: As the Doctor Sleeps

MAP17: Mind Prison

MAP19: Subduction 

MAP16: Hangman's Noose

MAP01: Ventilator

MAP07: Simple Complex

MAP10: Atlantis Rising

MAP32: Installation 07 Warszawa

MAP15: Clash of Galaxies

MAP14: Mountains and Mortars

MAP11: The Grieving Outpost

MAP08: Impure Liquids

MAP03: Mineopoly

MAP04: UAC Checkpoint

MAP06: Foregone Destruction

MAP18: Godforsake Hole

MAP05: Living Hell

 

[Celestin]

MAP19: Subduction by Use3D

 

I braced myself for this one, as a Use3D map with more than 300 enemies sounds like a chore and while not perfect, Subduction is a solid level and one of the better maps of his I've played. It can get grindy though, there are two routes leading out from the starting room, one brings you to the SSG in a crypt, other unlocks the red key. I unknowingly went for the key first and complained I had to kill mancubi and revenants with a basic shotgun. However, the map improves considerably when I entered the crypt, it's an atmospheric place loaded with imps and hitscanners in tight quarters, much more enjoyable than hacking at bigger demons. Still, the combat is mostly incidental and I think it lacks standout moments. 

 

Nevertheless, it works fine with moving the player from place to place. Subduction is nicely detailed throughout and offer a diverse set of views. The marble crypt is the best one, but the interior of the techbase and outside parts drenched in blood both look good. There's also this section finished with red bricks that feels like some sort of old and disused part of the complex, that's neat.

 

One odd quirk of Subduction are its secrets, it seems most of them can be locked out after a certain point, though I don't feel like they were obligatory to completion, even when pistol-starting. Still, it's definitely a better level than I initially expected.

[Capellan]

Map20

I like this map’s willingness to let the player move through silent, unpopulated areas as part of the forward progression. You rarely see this except as a start of map tension builder or when backtracking.  Walking into big open areas, or through corridors, for the first time and finding them empty of resistance was interesting and novel.

 

The “big climb” is perhaps more interesting in conception than execution, but it’s also a fun final obstacle to the map (the very end room, it must be said, is no obstacle at all).

 

[vdgg]

MAP18. The opening feels hostile. I quickly got immersed in the adventure. I would personally make the blood damaging floor (2-5%) as I was trying not to step on it anyway and also there is some inconsistency later on, I think. But then, I am more of a sadist. Non-linearity is great. Thanks for two SSG's , it is not the point the player can miss them (the player always can miss something), but it is likely they will stumble upon one of them sooner or later. You hear me, @Use ? :) I got most of the secrets this time, and the backpack is very important as otherwise I had to remember where that stray box of bullets was etc.

 

Progression: very surprised that the yellow key and the red key are so close to each other. The four red key switches are not very welcome on the first playthroughs, but after getting familiar they are fine. Also, why the exit is not marked (I think)? Overall, I enjoyed it a lot.

 

MAP19. This grew on me, eventually, but let me tell you another ammo starvation story. I didn't collect any plasma weapons (they are secret), but also I visited the SSG building as LAST and the SSG room as LAST in that building. So here we go, 35 minutes of shotgunning / chaingunning / occasional rockets. Interesting that it is non-linear from the starting point while the side areas themselves are mostly linear. I will revisit this map for sure as there is something captivating in it. Also, the UV Max record is from 2008, the last standing "ancient" record by @Gusta

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 19: Subduction

by Mike Alfredson @Use

UV, pistol-start, Nugget Doom

 

The second map in a row with a soporific midi, though perhaps it was inevitable. I may have complained about Waterworld but it actually goes well with the right map such as Map 10 of Hellbound. This one on the other hand does little to add excitement to the map. No fancy boom effects but there's 2 secrets we can cut ourselves off from if we take the wrong actions. It certainly presents several different areas, like the crypt, the generic base, the less generic security gate and several collections of ruins. But combat feels overly routine outside a couple of rooms containing large monster amounts for seemingly no reason and like other Use maps, we're expected to do things in a certain order. Like the crypt for instance should really be visited first because there's a Super Shotgun in a room there that needs to be accessed by pressing a few switches. Speaking of which, besides the exit door, the red skull key opens a location where we'll navigate through ruins and a security station before teleporting to an isolated hilly location with blood flowing from the top where we're assaulted by Imps. I guess it's an optional fight since it doesn't seem to accomplish a whole lot besides granting access to a plasma rifle and Megasphere that are kind of useless unless you haven't acquired the blue key, because nothing awaits us at the exit. It might be just the midi but I was basically bored after leaving the crypt. It's certainly better than Mike's other map in CC3 but it's almost more meh than Atlantis Rising.

 

 

 

[RHhe82]

MAP20: Huitzilopochtli (Dr. Zin). Played on UV, pistol start. DSDA v0.27.5. K: 483/483, I: 15/45, S: 6/6. Comp. time 59:38

 

After you reach the exit, the intermission screen says: "Anyone else would have died from exhaustion after all that travel."

 

You don't say. Yesterday CC3's equivalent of Gate of Illusion from La-Mulana (if that reference makes sense to anyone), today we get the Window Dressing Central. Although now I'm being a bit unfair: Huitzilopochtli *is* a decent map, and for the most part I was thinking "Hey, is this early Mechadon?". This one just dragged for too long, and I think the culprits here are early weapon starvation: ammo is plentiful enough, but I think the enemies launched at us are way too powerful with only a shotgun and a chaingun. SSG can be found some third of the way, and the rocket launcher far too late into the map. The other primary culprit are the big open areas with "window dressing" enemies. Granted, these are not necessarily an issue, unless you insist on reaching max stats. Also, on first playthrough you don't know you'll be able to return to earlier areas. You'd do well and have better time if you just grabbed the ammo in the first tall techbase hall and left.

 

So, I can't be harsh on Huitzilopochtli, but once again the sum of the parts is less than each individual part. There fun fights to be had, mostly after grabbing the rocket launcher and the plasma. That said, the exit area felt a bit underwhelming after an almost hour of playing. More modern wad could have had a lot more for a more tight but exciting fight.

 

So, umm... a solid map, but I wish it was shorter (and didn't follow another loooong map). And I wish it had some other soundtrack than Unforgiven - a song I liked very much in the 90s, but I have hard time bearing one more time hearing (the same can be said about Metallica's black album as whole: a favourite in my teens, but now, please, spare me).

[RICHIE B]

MAP 19: SUBDUCTION by USE3D
ZDoom, continuous, keyboard only, no saves, UV Max

 

Well we're back with USE3D, so let's see how this compares to map 01.

It's a big brick maze. Thankfully the blood floors are never damaging IIRC. A lot of work to do but some of the areas seem optional.

 

I like how the keys appear sequentially back on the bapahomet pad at the start. I wonder if you can leave them and get them to stack them on top of each other. Probably not.

I found exactly one secret, but it was the most important one. The megasphere down in the prison kinda area at the end. But how far into the map do you have to go to unlock this secret? Seems a bit late to get a plasma rifle.

 

The other secrets weren't great I thought. Just to get the lowly chainsaw, some way into the level, you apparently have to NOT press a switch - how would anyone know this without looking it up?

 

Another in the prison has a hidden switch on a baphomet face, opening up 3 switches. I found this and activated 2 but then they suddenly closed up and I couldn't get the other one. A one time only secret leading to a soulsphere and I missed it. Again very counter-intuitive and a bit too mean in this case imo.

The others turned out to need a bit of tricky platforming but I didn't bother.

 

This map is a bit duller in the aesthetics department compared to map 01 and this Bobby Prince music isn't my fave either. Subduction was ok but I liked map 01 much more, at least it looked really good and I liked that music.

 

Deaths: 3
Deaths so far: 78
Secrets: 1/5 (42/90 total)

 

 

 

===========================================

 

MAP 20: HUITZILOPOCHTLI by DR.ZIN
ZDoom, continuous, keyboard only, 4 saves, UV Max

 

I hope I spelt that right. I won't make a fuss if anyone gets that slightly wrong.

WIKIPEDIA: Huitzilopochtli (Classical Nahuatl: Huītzilōpōchtli, IPA: [wiːt͡siloːˈpoːt͡ʃt͡ɬi]) is the solar and war deity of sacrifice in Aztec religion. He was also the patron god of the Aztecs and their capital city, Tenochtitlan.

 

Rather large map this. The huge damaging blood floor tan cavern is both impressive and annoying. Something slightly awesome about all the imp fireballs in this huge place 2 radsuits are given which is better than nothing. Worst of all there's a revenant at the end, one of the worst things you can have in a wide open situation like this, but he didn't cause me trouble this time. At least there aren't chaingunners everywhere...

 

I do enjoy the exploration and the aesthetic though so can tolerate this. I made over 200 kills of 489 on my first attempt, only failing when I met a cyberdemon in a big room after some unneccessarily tricky platforming in a huge lava cavern - first time I had fallen down, you have to super-straferun. I was ready for the cyberdemon but then on firing another one teleported in. I ran back and dodged 2 sets of rockets but edged into one by mistake.

 

Second attempt. That's worth a save point next time. I'm not doing that big blood cavern over and over again.

 

Good job because ALL FIVE of my deaths came to those a-hole cyberdemons. Funny how as soon as I put the BFG away and stopped trying to stick them up close and just did the SSG dance, all of a sudden I beat them. That's why it's the tried and tested method folks.

 

After that, you end up in a mini Okuplok, which despite a further nagging sense of magnum opus I can't help but be impressed by. You can get some infighting going then watch from below, to help thin out the crowd.

 

With that done, the final area is a huge plain seemingly high up on a mountain maybe. More infighting ensues, turns out this is the exit. Good job I didn't take it by mistake. Of course there's an archvile I wasn't ready for, but bracing myself for an inevitable zap while I change to my BFG, a baron hits him and turns it's ire away from me. Blocked in by goats I managed to BFG my way out then watch the fireworks.

 

Still 95 kills left: I've missed an entire area culminating in the blue key - but what is it for? I can only think of a blue switch across the lava from the cyberdemon room. But that worked even without the key. Strange.

Deaths: 5
Deaths so far: 83
Secrets: 3/6 (45/96 total)

Edited September 20 by RICHIE B

[Celestin]

MAP20: Huitzilopochtli by Dr.Zin

 

On paper, there's nothing wrong with this map, but there are those little annoyances that add up and seriously detract from the experience. First of all, the weapon progression. Big guns are buried deep in the level, so enjoy your shotgun grind. The yellow key arena is the worst in this regard, just a huge, sparesly-populated cave with damaging floor. I do have to admit, though, once you get your hand on the rocket launcher and plasma rifle, the ammo is provided in large supply. Second issue is the amount of far-away monsters that are a chore to take out - see the round cave on the way to the blue key and spiraling path you have to take close to the exit. Three, the overall lenght of the level, it took me 45 minutes to reach the end, which is way too much for a rather boring map.

 

Now, there are positives here, I like the couple of big fights, it's this kind of old-school mindset where you have an open arena and several dozens of monsters attacking at once, but without the sofistication of modern slaughter combat. It looks good and offers some interesting sights, like the crate warehouse or pieces of ancient debries sticking out of the ground. Finally, the midi version of Metallica's "Unforgiven" is definitely a memorable choice. However, this is another map that drags on for too long and lacks excitement. Compared to Geist Halls from CC2, it's far less experimental and more conventional, but I feel like it makes it lose some of its charm.

[vdgg]

MAP20. Let's talk about scale... I did an experiment, I remember this Andy Olivera's review on Eternal Doom MAP24, "Rainbow Bridge" : 

 

Of course, it's a Castle level on the grandest of scales. How grand? There's over three hundred monsters and you still aren't the least bit overwhelmed

So that map could fit into a rectangle 12000 x 5600 units. Now, for Huitzilopochtli 13000 x 19000 would be not enough and the map has how many "rooms"? Fifteen only?

 

The detailing is almost non-existent, as well as light variation. That hell knight mini-maze with ZIMMER5 thrown in between WOODVERTs looks very interesting, though.

 

Killing all the monsters seems pointless. The pressure is also very light in the beginning and you can just run past all the monsters, I think, up to the blue key. Fortunately, the fights are getting more and more intense with the crater uphill section being the highlight (this fight is fantastic). Then the exit area, again, you can run past every demon in a straight line. Weird map, not my favourite, but it has some strong points.

[LadyMistDragon]

Map 20: Huizilopochtli

by @Dr. Zin

UV, pistol-start, Nugget Doom

 

Dr. Zin (who presumably named himself for the Jonny Quest villain) actually submitted a total of three maps for Community Chest 3, but one of them ended up being rejected and only got released in 2022. Oddly enough, I think that might have been a better inclusion than this entry right here. Both have a certain amount of grind in their combat but there was a certain interconnectedness and steadiness of combat that this kind of lacks. But personally, I'm neutral on "The Unforgiven." It takes nothing away from a vaguely gloomy magnum opus map and once one knows it's going to be a long map, it's a little harder to get annoyed unless you literally played The Black Album so much that you're now sick of it permanently.

 

But anyways, this map can be said to marry various mine-like tunnels with techbase sections interspersed throughout. It also contains a few rather impressive-looking areas like the massive blood cavern that we accessed through a secret entrance, the massive warehouse room that has a Hell Knight high up at an outdoor window to the right for no apparent reason but to annoy 100 percenters, and finally, that massive quarry toward the end that is pretty intimidating but is actually fairly easy to survive and also containing an impressive variety of monster compistion.

 

As a whole, this map is quite Imp-heavy and while in the above-mentioned warehouse room will throw a ton of Cacos at us in addition to Imps in some rocky walls on one side. However, this can be skipped because if we end up discovering a fairly-easy to find secret, we'll be teleported back here after we have both the yellow key and Super Shotgun. Although regardless, we still have to kill three Hell Knights with a Super Shotgun after the field near the beginning so maybe there's a touch of grind.

 

Maybe not to the degree of the blue key room which seems to assume that one has picked up the rocket launcher to deal with the masses of chaingunners, revenants, pinkies, imps, and Cacodemons that make up the monster population. They're shored up by some insignificant turret imps and Hell Knights on the ledge with the blue key. There's enough ammo to deal with everything but the RL on the other path in the previous rocky room does seem intended.

 

The map comes dangerously close to overstaying its welcome with the final grassy area where monsters get thrown carelessly in front of a mass collection of nobles guarding some ruins. But thankfully, this is where it ends, though not without the map's sole Arch-vile putting in an appearance at the portal, clearly overlayed with the beautiful red starry sky texture. It's not quite a favorite but ranks somewhere around Map 05 I'd say.