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36 minutes ago, Sonikkumania said:

It's exactly that. Also I have an example, in Fallout games you can literally save scum when you pickpocket from traders and steal their cash, if you get caught you just load the earlier game.

 

I used to do that a fair bit on some of the Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II levels first time I played that one. Sometimes the difficulty is just too intense that it's better to do it. Once you're more accustomed with the game and know what to expect, it can be fun to rely more on skill and less on reloading saves. At the end of the day there's no arbitrary standard for what is acceptable and isn't. Whatever is best for you is best.

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14 minutes ago, apichatpong said:

I guess Kurt Cobain would'nt have been able to play Marty Friedman guitar parts, Nirvana was still good and joyful guitar playing.

 

Nirvana comes from punk heritage. Punk's stripped down style is intentionally so, not just because they can or can't do super-shredding. They don't care to to begin with.

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Nah

Games are for fun, play however makes you comfortable. 

Don't feel like you're "dishonoring" the Doom Gods or some shit.

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Save early

Save often

If you mess up

Reload then

Scumma save

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It's like this pistol starting business. I get it, it's fun to start and find weapons but I never use it. The only time I pistol start is when I'm forced to. So the first level in a wad, or or some wads midway, near the end when you're forced again due to a crusher/explosion level finish.

 

 

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Why am I a scum for saving on a map? Will John Romero come to my house and decapitate me with a chainsaw if I do so?

 

Actually we are safe, John Romero has no body to use a chainsaw, that's why we can still keep our heads intact

Edited by DevilMyEyes

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Just now, DJVCardMaster said:

The punishment for save scumming is up to 3 years of playing Habitat on repeat, save scumming is bad and you should feel bad.

 

That's a prize, not a punishment!!

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Seriously though; I remember from olden days playing rogue-like RPGs such as Nethack and Angband: there the act of utilizing saves in the same vein as in Doom and most games for that matter was called savescumming. Those games were, as far as I understand, designed to be played with permadeath in mind, and that you could only save to have a pause, and then return to your playthrough later on.

 

Naturally people could jump in to DOS and make backups of transitory savefiles, and in case of death, restore the situation by pulling the backups whenever needed. But: that required file operations outside of the game, something the designer didn't want you to do. There the discussion of whether you've truly beaten the game using saves is founded. In the context Doom, it's just toxic ego contest to condemn using saves.

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Obviously it’s not a problem to savescum.

 

If you find yourself loadscumming a lot in a map, it’s worth taking a step back and assessing the situation - such as trying a different strat to a fight, going back to look for secrets / extra supplies, go back to an earlier save if you find yourself stuck in an impossible situation, lowering the difficulty, skipping the map altogether etc.

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I. Save Scumming every fight

 

II. Resurrecting when I forget to save and die

 

III. Playing difficulties below UV

 

The holy trinity of "I just want to play a fun video game, I genuinely don't care"

Edited by Mr Masker

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2 minutes ago, Jayextee said:

guys

does it count as playing a game if i play a game

 

Well, it depends. If you use conventional control methods, then no. Guitar Hero -controller with oven mitts in hands or bust, I'm afraid.

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The manual recommends savescumming, but it's wrong. Turn in your gamer card. 

 

t. I do it maybe two or three times a level. 

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doesn't "scumming" come from games where you'd take certain actions to exploit the system into giving you what you want without effort

eg... in a roguelike you can stairscum til the dungeon generator gives you a gnice treasure feeling

or like pausescumming in an action game to look for the start of an enemy's attacking routine

 

saving doesn't really give the same advantage unless yr doing it prolifically during encounters; savescumming tends to be an unhelpful misnomer

along the same lines of someone saying they're abusing the engine when they're just using the engine but with a little more advance knowledge

just braindead gamers saying things and never considering the meaning of the words

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Quote

Ring Ring, is the Doom Police, we have heard that you are a save scummer, hands up where I can see them, you have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you in a Doom court of law.

The punishment for save scumming is

 

 

Edited by UnknDoomer

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I savescum a lot more in other games like stalker where some encounters can be really annoying. I usually play Doom in dsda-doom so I just use the rewind feature instead and I only ever save when I get off of the game.

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I'm lurking on Nirvana's Twitch, he's playing Simulacrum AND I SAW HIM LOADSCUM PREVIOUS SITUATION O BLASPHEMY I THOUGHT HE WAS A GOOD PLAYER

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1 hour ago, yakfak said:

doesn't "scumming" come from games where you'd take certain actions to exploit the system into giving you what you want without effort

eg... in a roguelike you can stairscum til the dungeon generator gives you a gnice treasure feeling

or like pausescumming in an action game to look for the start of an enemy's attacking routine

 

saving doesn't really give the same advantage unless yr doing it prolifically during encounters; savescumming tends to be an unhelpful misnomer

along the same lines of someone saying they're abusing the engine when they're just using the engine but with a little more advance knowledge

just braindead gamers saying things and never considering the meaning of the words

 

I do it every couple of seconds, regardless of difficulty.  I didn't know that term untill I stayed here long enough to see people with the Rank: "Save Scummer" and saw posts about it.

 

I do save before ecounters too, and load it over and over untill its clear.  I don't mind the way I play.. I won't be using IDKFA anytime soon.  

 

https://fruitlab.com/video/G4KTHsolCv0ZQAvy?ntp=cp

 

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2 minutes ago, Monsieur E said:

no, it doesn't count if you finish a wad by savescumming. At that point, just play on iddqd 😌

Playing on IDDQD?

 

Great idea! Why did I never think of that... Thanks!

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4 hours ago, RHhe82 said:

Seriously though; I remember from olden days playing rogue-like RPGs such as Nethack and Angband: there the act of utilizing saves in the same vein as in Doom and most games for that matter was called savescumming. Those games were, as far as I understand, designed to be played with permadeath in mind, and that you could only save to have a pause, and then return to your playthrough later on.

 

Naturally people could jump in to DOS and make backups of transitory savefiles, and in case of death, restore the situation by pulling the backups whenever needed. But: that required file operations outside of the game, something the designer didn't want you to do. There the discussion of whether you've truly beaten the game using saves is founded. In the context Doom, it's just toxic ego contest to condemn using saves.

 

I really like this take. Doom has saving as part of an official feature set.

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The truth is, I'm too old to bother worrying about things like pride and artificial standards when it comes to video games. If you don't realize no one really has the time to not save-scum in levels that are more long and hard, that's less a problem with the map creator and more with the mentality you have. Life's too short to be too concerned with such things.

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I don't want to be condescending like others. Do whatever feels right in your mind. If it doesn't and you have to ask, don't. If validation is what you're looking for, save-scumming in Doom is not the problem itself.

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19 hours ago, RHhe82 said:

@TheMagicMushroomMan You forgot "Is it okay to play on HMP". (Give or take a few years, and we'll be asking if we have truly beaten the game if don't enable coop_spawns).

Dear god... co-op spawns, solo play only... Plutonia...

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I'm not a save-scummer, I'm a resurrect-scummer.

 

If the Prince of Persia and the main guy from Braid can reverse time or whatever to resurrect themselves to continue on their quests, then so can I.

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On 9/28/2024 at 11:59 AM, vanilla_d00m said:

Ok.. I’m a save scummer, I can’t change it.  Do you think it counts when I finish any WAD playing this way??  I’m playing Hell Revealed 2 right now for the first time.  And I’m also trying UV difficulty for the first time.  I’m in level 9.

 

You have brought shame on your family. The ghosts of your ancestors are shaking their heads in disgust!

 

Ok actually serious answer, one I always give on these threads. Holy fuck, it's a GAME! It's supposed to be FUN! Play it however you like so long as it makes your brain do a happy. Stop over-analysing it to the point where you're making posts like this. It's so stupid and frankly a bit depressing that this needs to be said at all.

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On 9/28/2024 at 3:02 PM, DevilMyEyes said:

Why am I a scum for saving on a map? Will John Romero come to my house and decapitate me with a chainsaw if I do so?

 

Actually we are safe, John Romero has no body to use a chainsaw, that's why we can still keep our heads intact

 

Reverse headless horseman. 
He comes to claim your body.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the replies guys.. I’m already used to playing this way and don’t think it will change.  Keep in mind.. I wasn’t lying when I mentioned about also doing it on the easiest difficulty setting.  

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