Freedoom Phase 2 Feedback

[dftf]

Following my playthrough of Freedoom: Phase 1, now I'm into Phase 2.

 

As per my previous-post, I'm still using the same setup:

    Played in: Crispy DOOM v7.0 (x64)
    Control method: keyboard-only
    WAD version: 0.14.0-alpha-110 (2024-09-17)
    Difficulty level: "Bring on the Pain" (default)     

 

So... onto the feedback of the maps themselves.

 

PHASE 2: DESTINATION EARTH(?)*

(*not-sure if Phase 2 has an official subtitle: the WAD's title-screen, the manual and the official website

all don't give one, so I'm just assuming those final-words on the screen after E4M8 is completed are it?)

 

MAP01 - Hydroelectric Plant

- A great, first map with a handful of secrets to find.

- Interesting that unlike Phase 1's E1M1, this map only introduces three monster-types (not four) and has no key.

- Might I suggest switching E1M1 and MAP01?  It feels to me MAP01 would be far-better suited as E1M1, given that episode's maps are all "tech base" themed, whereas Phase 2 varies in theme far-more between maps, so E1M1 would work-better.  The blue-key could even be made mandatory then for completion.  Just an idea!

 

MAP02 - Filtration Tunnels
- Just as with E3M1, odd there's only one-secret and it's just out-in-the-open.
- Instead of two doors leading to the yellow-key room, maybe just have one door which would have both red and blue tracks beside it?  Currently the blue-door is hidden behind the red, making it initially-unclear where the blue-key door is in the map.  Some players may find the blue-key, use the switch it activates, and then be unsure what that switch actually did, hunting the map for a door they cannot yet see.  (MAP09's "box room" actually features a door with both red and yellow tracks.)

 

MAP03 - Crude Processing Centre
- In early-versions of this map, you used to be able to see the "red-key tower" from the start.  It's a pity there are no windows now to still allow this view
- Just before the end of the map, you get an Area Survey Map.  Be better to get this earlier-on, to save backtracking later

 

MAP04 - Containment Bay
- The "lift secret" with the red-armour has rather tight timing!

 

MAP05 - Sludge Burrow
- In the room where the yellow-key is gained, the Mini-gunner hiding behind one of the rock columns can be easily missed
- Good amount of secrets

 

MAP06 - Janus Terminal
- One secret in this map is another, easily-found "out-in-the-open" one (even more-so than the one in MAP02)

 

MAP07 - Logic Gate
- The layout of this map can be a little confusing, initially
- But similar to MAP05, there were a decent-number of secrets, all-of-which again were fun and fair to find

 

MAP08 - Astronomy Complex

- The first-time you come out of the teleport (opposite to where you start the map), I always wonder initially where to go: the door to the left won't open, so I end-up going through the right-hand "AGM" door, down to the basement expecting to find a switch, but then can't progress.  So then I drop-down, go up the stairs back to the start-area and only then notice the door there is now-open.  Might I suggest, either: (1) opening the door to the left of the teleport instead of the further-away one, or (2) move the yellow-key onto a windowsill in the same room as the teleport?

- The rest of the map flows-well after this, so this initial route come-overs a bit odd.

 

MAP09 - Datacentre
In the red-key room:
- The box of missiles to the right of the switch looks a bit odd when it overhangs the edge
- I feel there should be a secret-item in the slime, in the gap between the switch and the door.  Currently, the room has a 'rad-suit', but no reason to go into the slime.  This would provide a reason, and you have to get back to the lift-platform on the other-side of the room in time, too.
In the "warehouse room", with the stacked boxes:
- The "shoot box" secret feels a bit odd.  Not sure any other map ever re-uses that concept?

- You require the red-key to enter the main-room, yet after you go through the yellow-key door (that leads to the "lava falls area"), the very-next door after it also requires you the red-key.  Maybe that smaller red-door is leftover from an earlier-design of the map?
- When you finally exit the main-room, a teleport gets revealed just outside the door, to the right.  That teleporter takes you to the middle of the square-room at the far-end of the warehouse-room (the one with the four white teleporter pads in the middle), which is a room you have to visit to lower the box that blocks-access to the room housing the yellow-key, which is mandatory to exit the warehouse.  So... similar to the "temple teleporters" in E3M3, I'm not sure why we need to go back to a room we have already completed?
Some things I would note:
- Lots of great secrets
- The exit-door to the "warehouse-room" has both yellow and red strips.  I don't see that convention used often, so it looks quite unique.  Shame that the final door in the map (to the small exit room) doesn't have all-three strips beside it though, to carry the idea on.

 

MAP10 - Deadly Outlands
- To the right of the "base", there is a teleport which takes you into the room where you gain the red-key.  This allows you to get it without first needing to obtain the blue-key to open the door to that room.  However... you do need the blue-key within the "base" to obtain the yellow-key, which is required to exit the map.  So... it's odd how the blue-key appears to optional early-on, but then required later?

[MrFlibble]

27 minutes ago, dftf said:

MAP02 - Filtration Tunnels
- Just as with E3M1, odd there's only one-secret and it's just out-in-the-open.

At the core, this is a very old map, dating back to the times when Freedoom mappers generally tended not to put a lot of secrets in levels, for some reason.

[dftf]

@MrFlibble oh, some of the maps are indeed very-old, yes.

 

I've got some archived versions of Freedoom and the oldest being 0.1, which is dated 15 April 2003, and it's amazing how some of the maps that are still in the current 0.14 release started there:

 

From Phase 1 (0.1 release): E1M1 (the old "helipads level, where you go-underground to raise a slime-pool" map) I think bits of it are re-used in the current MAP01; E1M4 is still E1M4 today, though had an outdoor-secret area (near the yellow key-door where you start) added, along with the underground area to the blue-key; and E1M7 is still there today, though many areas were totally re-done (such as the original "large room with boxes, leading to a cramped maze" that came before the blue-key).  Oh, and there was no red-key back-then, either.

 

From Phase 2 (0.1 release): MAP02 is the current MAP08, and structurally I don't think virtually anything has changed!  MAP05, MAP16, MAP20 and MAP29 are still virtually the same maps then, as now.  MAP11 still features some similar-areas to the current MAP11, but massively-overhauled rooms in areas.  MAP23 is a rare case of the 0.1 release having more areas than now, featuring more rooms in the main-area of the map, and a "guitar-shaped" secret room with four "Commander Keens" that is totally gone nowadays. MAP25 is largely the same, though new areas in the outskirts-areas you travel to were added.  MAP30 though, phew: back in the 0.1 release you had to play an entire-level before defeating the "Icon of Sin".  Over time, the level-part was removed (and is currently E3M7, in Phase 1) and the "Icon of Sin" part is all that now remains in the current MAP30.

 

Amazing how some maps from over 21 years ago now are still there, and in many cases still retain their same, basic layouts and main areas!

[MrFlibble]

@dftf, in your opinion, how does the Phase 2 mapset fare in comparison with both the vanilla levels and any of the popular megawads?

 

Today I had some free time and, inspired by your posts, played the current nightly build of Phase 2 in MBF 2.04+DOSBox on HMP. I got to MAP09. I've always had mixed feelings about the level design in the game. At times, the maps feel very generic, and at others seem overly convoluted for no good reason. The old MAP02 in the MAP08 slot felt like a notable toning down of difficulty after the previous maps -- although I'm glad that MAP07 is no longer an imitation of vanilla MAP07. The key hunt in the present MAP08 is also pretty repetitive, although I would accept it in the context of the old builds where the whole project was very WIP.

 

I'd probably say that while the levels feel generally more detailed than those in vanilla Doom, they do not seem to convey a clear story or sense of progression. The level names appear to be largely arbitrary, and for the most part, the areas that comprise the maps could be described in general terms as "rooms with monsters" and "corridors with monsters". And, unlike vanilla Doom, the maps seem to be much more loosely tied thematically (I mean the texturing and the general idea of what the levels try to represent). So far, I've not found any notable level geometry or tricks that would make any of the maps stand out -- except, perhaps, the aforementioned elevator secret in MAP04 -- although, again, there is indeed more detail to the Freedoom levels -- but seemingly not enough to make it feel like a truly different game or at least a major TC (comparing this to stuff like HacX or REKKR in terms of level design).