DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 (edited) Hello again DoomWorld, Last year I posted about a DOOM mod I'm working on but didn't get any feedback. Work on it continued but there was still no interest. Without an established brand it's difficult to get anyone to download & install your mod (mod meaning source port with built binaries). To resolve that I felt I needed to get it up on a digital store like the Microsoft App Store or Steam. The main feature is the multiplayer aspect. The goal was to have a way you could download the app, play standalone, and then connect online to battle. The Freedoom project was created to provide a way to play a standalone game without requiring DOOM. They also allow you to include it with some conditions. Perfect. I can put my mod on a store, include Freedoom, and allow players who own the classic DOOM games to play online battles. The full source code is included so you can build the game, learn from it, and enjoy it online with your friends. But, in addition to my time, the online service has a cost. How do I solve that? Well I thought a small fee (~$5) to download the built program was reasonable. For anyone that didn’t want to pay it, they could build the source. Perfect. Everyone’s happy. No, DoomWorld is very upset. The folks that I want to play & support my mod don’t like this at all. So how can we resolve that? There is another thread which I have read all the responses. It’s heartbreaking reading those responses, but I understand the reason. I should have posted more about the mod here before it showed up on the store. Here are a few key points: I have been working on the project for over 2 years as a hobby. This link contains some of the code changes. Click it to see a very big diff. This is all code I want to contribute to Odamex & the DOOM community (plus more code incoming). https://github.com/odamex/odamex/compare/stable...DoomBattleZone:odamex:doombattlezone The key feature is zoning (transferring a player with state from one server to another). You can review the changes for more info or ask about any of the changes. I came up with the name Zugnaex. It does sound like a pharmaceutical brand which is funny but there is a story around it. I’ll reveal more later though. I'm a programmer. I used AI for different parts of the project including coding, creative writing, and imagery. I also paid artists and streamers to create content for it. For the key artwork in the game, I’ll commission those out instead. You all raised good points in regard to usage for front facing aspects like the store page. My goal for this project is like what you all are doing here. DoomWorld is a community dedicated to DOOM. DoomBattle.Zone is an online platform dedicated to DOOM mods. It's not there yet but I'm working to get it there. Edited October 9 by DoomBattleZone 1 Share this post Link to post
wolfmanFP Posted October 9 (edited) The problem was not that you didn't have an estabilished brand IMO. Why would I choose this over playing Odamex proper (or Zandronum) - for free? That might not be clear to most people. Quote The key feature is zoning (transferring a player with state from one server to another). If I understand it correctly, this is the defining feature of DBZ/Zugnaex. However, it's still not clear to me what does this mean for player experience. 6 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 1 minute ago, wolfmanFP said: If I understand it correctly, this is the defining feature of DBZ/Zugnaex. However, it's still not clear to me what does this mean for player experience. Yeah I see exactly what you are saying. So in Odamex & Zandronum you connect to a single server. The server changes maps & everyone switches to the new map. In DBZ you can have multiple servers each hosting a map. A player/client can switch between them but still have all stats. So you could run around the maps. When you come back to the map, it will be in whatever state it was in when you left plus anything that may have changed (like enemies infighting or other players changing things). Example would be The Slaughter mode. Everyone starts in a lobby then zones to the arena. If you die, you come back in the lobby & can zone back to the arena where your friends are fighting. There are many additional features as well like server driven UI, battle mode, client timers, and more. All of these features allow you to create mods that support zoning/battles. Sadly I do not really write documentation for hobby projects but I should do that to help clear things up & so folks will understand what they are getting. 0 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 55 minutes ago, wolfmanFP said: The problem was not that you didn't have an estabilished brand IMO. Why would I choose this over playing Odamex proper (or Zandronum) - for free? That might not be clear to most people. And I didn't answer your first question. Since Zugnaex is open source, you can build it for free. You don't have to pay anything to play it. Online is free. I put a small fee on the Steam & MS App versions so that players who want to support our mod can do so. Plus they get a nice package ready to go. Steam provides you with a binary that is run through their certification process. They also handle updates for you. Same with Microsoft. Other open source projects use ads or donations to keep the lights on. Folks seem to be ok with that. I'm ok with that. 0 Share this post Link to post
Deffers Posted October 9 (edited) Assuming that works as intended, and the end-user has the ability to modify the server hosting rules such that it can be suited to multiple game modes, that sounds somewhat useful. Having a multiplayer feature where different players were on different maps was actually something that I was interested in posting in my The Newer Technology thread a few months back but then I let it die instead. I'm not sure how effective this particular strategy will be for adoption, though-- having lurked through the whole response to the Zugnaex thing it was not remotely clear to me this novel feature is something people are at all aware of, and it's obviously gotten off on the wrong foot. I'm familiar with the content strategy you're referring to-- open-source software that's free to build yourself but has a precompiled version for purchase. Given the use of an established IP and otherwise thoroughly open-sourced community content, however, I cannot help but feel establishing context would have been crucial for community acceptance. Additionally, you run into a problem-- what if map-makers want to build around your features but they're not interesting in building from source? All they're going to see is a paywall from someone who has an up to this point muted community presence, and if there isn't stuff built for this new multiplayer feature suite, that's not going to help adoption, is it? A further problem presents itself too-- the use of AI is anywhere from a yellow flag to a red flag in open-source projects because of the unresolved legal status of AI-generated code. It is very likely the project leads on the various multiplayer projects are going to have serious questions about the viability of merging any self-admittedly AI-genned code. You may have to consider the possibility that you'll need to help facilitate a cleanroom build of the code if you're looking for an eventual merge, but that's a question better taken up directly with them, not a rando passerby. I don't think it's hopeless to want to make money off the DOOM hobby-- plenty of people do it. Hellforge Studios people do it all the time, to say nothing of the members of the community who're working at Night Dive today. I think the key is all in the presentation. Packaging Freedoom is technically permitted (I would have some questions about the explicit naming of DOOM, though... I suppose you'll find out if it really is a problem sooner than later and not from us) but it gives little indication to the community of what the novel contribution here is. Since you're primarily a programmer, your inclination was likely to try and market directly the zoning improvements. Unfortunately people are going to judge the project visually, especially when money's on the line. Perhaps a novel project with a novel set of assets would have been a good place to start for something like this. I'll be blunt-- DOOM's multiplayer community has been underserved by the technical aspects of development for a while. Whether it's the Zandronum/GZDOOM split that's been unresolvable despite years of attempts under some of the more prestigious and experienced members of the community or the under-explored nature of potential gameplay opportunities brought about from more sophisticated networking code that can support multiple maps. While Odamex's UDMF support is a bright star for me, it's certainly far from where I'd like it to be. The nature of reliable netcode programming makes technical progress uneven compared to the other kinds of things the community can pull up. Because of this, I suspect I'm more willing than most to offer benefit of the doubt despite the rocky start-- at least acknowledge that I can see the potential-- but that's solely if the community at large stands to benefit from further development. I mean it when I say hopefully you can clear up doubts to the community's satisfaction and provide lasting contributions. But only time will tell if that's going to be possible. 4 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 (edited) Sorry miss post. Working on a response now. 0 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Deffers said: Assuming that works as intended, and the end-user has the ability to modify the server hosting rules such that it can be suited to multiple game modes, that sounds somewhat useful. Having a multiplayer feature where different players were on different maps was actually something that I was interested in posting in my The Newer Technology thread a few months back but then I let it die instead. I'm not sure how effective this particular strategy will be for adoption, though-- having lurked through the whole response to the Zugnaex thing it was not remotely clear to me this novel feature is something people are at all aware of, and it's obviously gotten off on the wrong foot. I'm familiar with the content strategy you're referring to-- open-source software that's free to build yourself but has a precompiled version for purchase. Given the use of an established IP and otherwise thoroughly open-sourced community content, however, I cannot help but feel establishing context would have been crucial for community acceptance. Additionally, you run into a problem-- what if map-makers want to build around your features but they're not interesting in building from source? All they're going to see is a paywall from someone who has an up to this point muted community presence, and if there isn't stuff built for this new multiplayer feature suite, that's not going to help adoption, is it? These are all good points. I'm still figuring things out. Making payment optional but requiring knowledge to build code is a problem. Need to think about that one. Quote A further problem presents itself too-- the use of AI is anywhere from a yellow flag to a red flag in open-source projects because of the unresolved legal status of AI-generated code. It is very likely the project leads on the various multiplayer projects are going to have serious questions about the viability of merging any self-admittedly AI-genned code. You may have to consider the possibility that you'll need to help facilitate a cleanroom build of the code if you're looking for an eventual merge, but that's a question better taken up directly with them, not a rando passerby. Good point. There is no AI generated code in DBZ or Zugnaex that was put there by me. Using AI like google or stackoverflow to look up information is how I've always used it to avoid any issues like you are mentioning. What's the printf format specifier for a floating point value? It generates stuff but I'm just looking for %f. This is a deep topic though. I appreciate you bringing it up. Quote I don't think it's hopeless to want to make money off the DOOM hobby-- plenty of people do it. Hellforge Studios people do it all the time, to say nothing of the members of the community who're working at Night Dive today. I think the key is all in the presentation. Packaging Freedoom is technically permitted (I would have some questions about the explicit naming of DOOM, though... I suppose you'll find out if it really is a problem sooner than later and not from us) but it gives little indication to the community of what the novel contribution here is. Since you're primarily a programmer, your inclination was likely to try and market directly the zoning improvements. Unfortunately people are going to judge the project visually, especially when money's on the line. Perhaps a novel project with a novel set of assets would have been a good place to start for something like this. Yeah I also feel there is innovation on the HUD like the mini map & targeting display. I think it's just coming down to me not explaining it well enough and causing confusion. Quote I'll be blunt-- DOOM's multiplayer community has been underserved by the technical aspects of development for a while. Whether it's the Zandronum/GZDOOM split that's been unresolvable despite years of attempts under some of the more prestigious and experienced members of the community or the under-explored nature of potential gameplay opportunities brought about from more sophisticated networking code that can support multiple maps. While Odamex's UDMF support is a bright star for me, it's certainly far from where I'd like it to be. The nature of reliable netcode programming makes technical progress uneven compared to the other kinds of things the community can pull up. Because of this, I suspect I'm more willing than most to offer benefit of the doubt despite the rocky start-- at least acknowledge that I can see the potential-- but that's solely if the community at large stands to benefit from further development. I mean it when I say hopefully you can clear up doubts to the community's satisfaction and provide lasting contributions. But only time will tell if that's going to be possible. I'm with you on this. Let's see if we can make happen. Although I am not heavy on the social side in general, it would be cool to push this tech further. Edited October 9 by DoomBattleZone 0 Share this post Link to post
Pechudin Posted October 9 Changes at a server are saved? Like Minecraft servers? 0 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Pechudin said: Changes at a server are saved? Like Minecraft servers? Oh I mean while the server is running. You leave & come back. After the server restarts, it's back to its same initial state. Some leaderboards do stick around though. A way to persist the state of a game server is a really interesting idea though & could fit in the mods future. I'm making a note to give you credit on that one! 0 Share this post Link to post
GibFrag Posted October 9 (edited) A big issue with your linked thread is it doesn't really detail what this thing is. It's a bit too brief and worded in a way that may confuse some people. Perhaps make a video trailer/demo? 6 Share this post Link to post
Trov Posted October 9 (edited) The problem is simply that nobody knows what the fuck you are talking about. We are players, not executives looking for buzzwords. None of your videos show anything different than a basic co-op doom gameplay with a fancy HUD. If you want to sell people on this bespoke instancing thing maybe you should actually describe and demonstrate it with a trailer or mention it on the steam page at the very least. Until then "online battles" just sounds the same as playing online with Odamex or any other multiplayer doom port. 12 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 11 minutes ago, GibFrag said: A big issue with your linked thread is it doesn't really detail what this thing is. It's a bit too brief and worded in a way that may confuse some people. Perhaps make a video trailer/demo? Yeah how the current battle modes work & the tech itself (both the server and client features) can be better explained or demoed. The Kneed for Speed mode mentioned there is a speed racing mode with a persistent online leaderboard. Since it's multiplayer it's also PvP. Here are a few videos demoing some of the battle modes for reference: This stream from the other day shows all the modes: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2266902703 (note: This streamer also works for Nightdive but this stream is her personal one not related at all to Nightdive.) And this is my no-ad Youtube which has promotional videos for Ready or Knot (Hide & Seek) and Hell Racer (another speed race variation) https://www.youtube.com/@doombattlezone 0 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 22 minutes ago, Trov said: The problem is simply that nobody knows what the fuck you are talking about. We are players, not executives looking for buzzwords. None of your videos show anything different than a basic co-op doom gameplay with a fancy HUD. What makes the mod different is something I'm not doing a good job of conveying. You're pretty much right that everything players are doing in the demos or streams I have are what you can do in other mods. The way they do it though on the tech side is an aspect that is unique. I'll figure out a better way to highlight this. 0 Share this post Link to post
The Almighty Egg Posted October 9 This "Doom Battle Zone" thing is a scam isn't it. Your wording on your posts is veeery odd. Free account and for what? If people want to play deathmatch or co op with their friends setting up a server isn't the hardest thing in the world. Plenty of tutorials out there 5 Share this post Link to post
Kinsie Posted October 9 10 minutes ago, DoomBattleZone said: And this is my no-ad Youtube which has promotional videos for Ready or Knot (Hide & Seek) and Hell Racer (another speed race variation) https://www.youtube.com/@doombattlezone The "Hide and Seek" video appears to be footage of vanilla E1M1 and E1M2 interspersed with clips from a movie trailer, which leaves me more confused than before I clicked it. 1 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 3 minutes ago, The Almighty Egg said: This "Doom Battle Zone" thing is a scam isn't it. Your wording on your posts is veeery odd. Free account and for what? If people want to play deathmatch or co op with their friends setting up a server isn't the hardest thing in the world. Plenty of tutorials out there Yeah you can host your own DOOM servers. This mod provides hosting for you. Anyone can connect to the service & play. It's actually very different from local hosting since you don't know and can't control currently who you are playing with. This is an experimental aspect of the mod as well. Basically, anything goes online. You don't know who or what is next. 0 Share this post Link to post
LexiMax Posted October 9 (edited) Hi, occasional Odamex developer here. When you're making a product that is based on an open source core - and I can only assume you are, based on the fact that you're charging money for it - you need to ask yourself a few questions. What is the value-add that my port is adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if the doom community has any interest in the things that I am adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if the public at large has any interest in the things I am adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if I'm charging a price that people are willing to pay? EDIT: Have I done the necessary market research to know if the target market would blanch at any sign of AI created content? From all outside appearances, it looks like you took Odamex, added a few features that could have easily been pull requests to the main project (though some of them might be things we're not interested in, which to be fair is fork-worthy), slapped Freedoom on top of it, and are charging money for it. Even if this is a simplification of the reality, this is not obvious from a casual perusal, and I immediately lost interest when I saw Freedoom assets. To be blunt about it, I don't think the venn diagram for your target market exists. You know what would actually give people a reason to pay money to play your port? New, human-authored content that is visually distinct. People are actually huge fans of "Total Conversion" projects like Sonic Robo Blast 2, The Adventures of Square, and Selaco, and that's because those projects have all new graphics and levels, and aren't leaning on the "stone soup" that is Freedoom. Edited October 9 by LexiMax 23 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 2 minutes ago, Kinsie said: The "Hide and Seek" video appears to be footage of vanilla E1M1 and E1M2 interspersed with clips from a movie trailer, which leaves me more confused than before I clicked it. Yeah that was a very promotional video. In the Ready of Knot battle mode, players join the first zone. It can be any zone but currently it picks randomly from E1M1 to E1M4 since many folks are familiar with those. While you are playing, someone at random becomes it. Now it goes PvP (everyone vs that 1 player). Everyone has a limited amount of time to get through each level (it or not it). So you're racing back and forth across the levels trying to survive or kill who's it. When "it" is killed, another player becomes it. It's a pretty fun multiplayer experience I think. Also it highlights the multi-server zoning aspect of the game. 0 Share this post Link to post
lizzieshinkickr Posted October 9 (edited) 8 hours ago, DoomBattleZone said: Last year I posted about a DOOM mod I'm working on but didn't get any feedback. 1 hour ago, Trov said: The problem is simply that nobody knows what the fuck you are talking about. Let me be a little bit more specific, and maybe I can help you to see why people weren't jumping on commenting. In short: With your initial announcement post, you give off the impression of an individual pretending to be a corporation. I'll go into specifics with references: Spoiler On 9/2/2023 at 7:42 PM, DoomBattleZone said: [TITLE] DoomBattle.Zone - Online DOOM® Multiplayer 😈 Today we released a big update. Emoji use on a text-based forum isn't unheard of, but it is standoutish. Your promotional materials also are very emoji-heavy, but that's more on platforms such as Twitter, so I guess it makes more sense there. On 9/2/2023 at 7:42 PM, DoomBattleZone said: Today we released a big update. [...] We're a modification of the Odamex client/server DOOM source port. Our current battle mode... You are using a lot of Royal We here. In your post today, you started to use more standard first person pronouns. People will wonder who your group is if you use words like Our and We a lot, but it doesn't really signify a sense of individual passion or sincere engagement with the community. It reads like very corporate PR draft. On 9/2/2023 at 7:42 PM, DoomBattleZone said: Our current battle mode - Kneed For Speed - is live now. You "Kneed" to check it out. 57 minutes ago, DoomBattleZone said: And this is my no-ad Youtube which has promotional videos for Ready or Knot Youtube video you linked: Quote Experience #DOOM® like KNEVER before! You keep using this "Kneed/Kn" thing in your posts. It appears to be a pun? Maybe? It makes the assumption that we know what you're talking about. It feels extremely forced and unnatural. On 9/2/2023 at 7:42 PM, DoomBattleZone said: A copy of Ultimate DOOM® must installed on your PC to play. Dude, this is extremely blatant "I am a product trying to make money off the community/other IPs ever". It's kinda assumed on the Doom forums that we know how Doom mods work. This is probably the biggest culprit of "this is just a press release for a product" rather than a work of passion. On 9/2/2023 at 7:42 PM, DoomBattleZone said: [Download link]* * verified as safe (not malware) by both SourceForge and Microsoft Defender Smartscreen. Um, okay? Again, there's this weird assumption that if you didn't put this in your post the community -would- think it was unsafe (and malware). I don't really know why you would go out of your way to signify this, it actually makes me *more* suspicious. On 9/2/2023 at 7:42 PM, DoomBattleZone said: Don't take too long to try it out! The Icon of Sin doesn't like to wait... This catch phrase feels infantalizing. Like "cheesy 90s gamer magazine" levels of out of touch with the general community. I think you have a good idea, but all of this really gives off the impression that you don't really understand why people play Doom or come to the community to begin with. Which, to be fair, isn't really that important in the long run! But if you also want to build a platform, it might just be cyanide to your project. With all the AI generated content, extreme corporate speech (even using an LLC!), using the other codebases, paying for streams and views, and capping it off with selling it on various markets when all the Sourceports I know are free... 8 hours ago, DoomBattleZone said: I also paid artists and streamers to create content for it. It looks like "content". It looks counterfeit. Edited October 9 by lizzieshinkickr : cleanup 4 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 5 minutes ago, LexiMax said: What is the value-add that my port is adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if the doom community has any interest in the things that I am adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if the public at large has any interest in the things I am adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if I'm charging a price that people are willing to pay? From all outside appearances, it looks like you took Odamex, added a few features that could have easily been pull requests to the main project (though some of them might be things we're not interested in, which to be fair is fork-worthy), slapped Freedoom on top of it, and are charging money for it. Even if this is a simplification of the reality, this is not obvious from a casual perusal, and I immediately lost interest when I saw Freedoom assets. To be blunt about it, I don't think the venn diagram for your target market exists. You know what would actually give people a reason to pay money to play your port? New, human-authored content that is visually distinct. People are actually huge fans of "Total Conversion" projects like Sonic Robo Blast 2, The Adventures of Square, and Selaco, and that's because those projects have all new graphics and levels, and aren't leaning on the "stone soup" that is Freedoom. I know you're an Odamex dev. Your cmake setup for odamex is a big reason why I picked it. It built perfectly. I think you also did the UI system which I extended to be server driven through a markup system. A very nice system as well. Ok this is very good advice. I did none of that research. This is based on an idea to have random battles using Odamex client/server where players can jump around servers. Basically live in a DOOM universe (I'd say "world" usually...). So yeah as soon as anyone sees Freedoom it's another person trying to flip a profit on Freedoom. What I should have done is reached out the to DOOM community, pitch the mod, & asked if anyone would be interested in building out an IWAD for a store distribution. But this is a learning lesson for me as well. Looking at Selaco, with a completely new game around GZDoom, they pulled it off perfectly. My mod is focused on multiplayer. Sometimes you try to do it all yourself on these projects and fall short. 0 Share this post Link to post
Kinsie Posted October 9 I think the thing that's causing the most confusion is that the promo materials I've seen mostly just showcase vanilla player vs. monsters gameplay, often with a single player. It doesn't show off the thing you're declaring your big major feature (shared state between servers? It's still unclear). If this is the sort of thing I think it is, a clearer demonstration would be, say, a Deathmatch between three or so players where there are teleporters set up to jump between different maps/servers, showcasing a knock-down drag-out gunfight across multiple maps/servers. Or maybe I've got it all wrong and I'm just on the completely wrong track. Either way is possible. My head hurts. 11 minutes ago, DoomBattleZone said: Yeah you can host your own DOOM servers. This mod provides hosting for you. Anyone can connect to the service & play. It's actually very different from local hosting since you don't know and can't control currently who you are playing with. This is an experimental aspect of the mod as well. Basically, anything goes online. You don't know who or what is next. ...are you declaring "there are no safety precautions" to be a selling point? In 2024? Because, uh, 7 Share this post Link to post
The Almighty Egg Posted October 9 10 bucks all of this was AI generated ideas/art to make a quick buck. 2 Share this post Link to post
DiavoJinx Posted October 9 20 minutes ago, LexiMax said: Hi, occasional Odamex developer here. When you're making a product that is based on an open source core - and I can only assume you are, based on the fact that you're charging money for it - you need to ask yourself a few questions. What is the value-add that my port is adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if the doom community has any interest in the things that I am adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if the public at large has any interest in the things I am adding? Have I done the necessary market research to know if I'm charging a price that people are willing to pay? From all outside appearances, it looks like you took Odamex, added a few features that could have easily been pull requests to the main project (though some of them might be things we're not interested in, which to be fair is fork-worthy), slapped Freedoom on top of it, and are charging money for it. Even if this is a simplification of the reality, this is not obvious from a casual perusal, and I immediately lost interest when I saw Freedoom assets. To be blunt about it, I don't think the venn diagram for your target market exists. You know what would actually give people a reason to pay money to play your port? New, human-authored content that is visually distinct. People are actually huge fans of "Total Conversion" projects like Sonic Robo Blast 2, The Adventures of Square, and Selaco, and that's because those projects have all new graphics and levels, and aren't leaning on the "stone soup" that is Freedoom. This eloquently & succinctly summarizes that thread I read through yesterday. 1 Share this post Link to post
Jimmy² Posted October 9 (edited) 8 hours ago, DoomBattleZone said: I used AI for different parts of the project including coding you what 40 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 33 minutes ago, lizzieshinkickr said: Let me be a little bit more specific, and maybe I can help you to see why people weren't jumping on commenting. In short: With your initial announcement post, you give off the impression of an individual pretending to be a corporation. I'll go into specifics with references: Reveal hidden contents Emoji use on a text-based forum isn't unheard of, but it is standoutish. Your promotional materials also are very emoji-heavy, but that's more on platforms such as Twitter, so I guess it makes more sense there. You are using a lot of Royal We here. In your post today, you started to use more standard first person pronouns. People will wonder who your group is if you use words like Our and We a lot, but it doesn't really signify a sense of individual passion or sincere engagement with the community. It reads like very corporate PR draft. Youtube video you linked: You keep using this "Kneed/Kn" thing in your posts. It appears to be a pun? Maybe? It makes the assumption that we know what you're talking about. It feels extremely forced and unnatural. Dude, this is extremely blatant "I am a product trying to make money off the community/other IPs ever". It's kinda assumed on the Doom forums that we know how Doom mods work. This is probably the biggest culprit of "this is just a press release for a product" rather than a work of passion. Um, okay? Again, there's this weird assumption that if you didn't put this in your post the community -would- think it was unsafe (and malware). I don't really know why you would go out of your way to signify this, it actually makes me *more* suspicious. This catch phrase feels infantalizing. Like "cheesy 90s gamer magazine" levels of out of touch with the general community. I think you have a good idea, but all of this really gives off the impression that you don't really understand why people play Doom or come to the community to begin with. Which, to be fair, isn't really that important in the long run! But if you also want to build a platform, it might just be cyanide to your project. With all the AI generated content, extreme corporate speech (even using an LLC!), using the other codebases, paying for streams and views, and capping it off with selling it on various markets when all the Sourceports I know are free... It looks like "content". It looks counterfeit. Now that you point it out I see what you mean. I thought you mentioned emojis too which I do go overboard on. Yeah you want to not sound like a corporation. An LLC is basically an individual under the liability protection. I had one from before so why not use it. Again, it comes down to not communicating with the community I'm making the mod for and who's tools and tech over the years make what I'm doing possible. This is an area I need to improve on. 0 Share this post Link to post
msx2plus Posted October 9 4 minutes ago, Jimmy² said: you what great for automating bullshit nothing-code tasks, but for something like this? lol lmao 10 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 3 minutes ago, Jimmy² said: you what Not copy & paste code but a fast google search if that is ok. Honestly I don't know what is ok or not with AI anyone. Everything is using AI. I don't post publicly often or share my development processes. I'm trying to be transparent. I understand now that AI is something many folks have deep concerns about. I need to be more careful on its use. 0 Share this post Link to post
kevansevans Posted October 9 No. Not “everything” is using AI, and anyone with an ounce of creativity and or willingness to contribute to society without monetary motivation will tell you not to use it. 25 Share this post Link to post
DoomBattleZone Posted October 9 34 minutes ago, Kinsie said: I think the thing that's causing the most confusion is that the promo materials I've seen mostly just showcase vanilla player vs. monsters gameplay, often with a single player. It doesn't show off the thing you're declaring your big major feature (shared state between servers? It's still unclear). If this is the sort of thing I think it is, a clearer demonstration would be, say, a Deathmatch between three or so players where there are teleporters set up to jump between different maps/servers, showcasing a knock-down drag-out gunfight across multiple maps/servers. Or maybe I've got it all wrong and I'm just on the completely wrong track. Either way is possible. My head hurts. ...are you declaring "there are no safety precautions" to be a selling point? In 2024? Because, uh, A few folks have mentioned that. I'm definitely going to look into messaging more clearly on anything promotional with regard to this mod. I think your example is great. That sounds like a fun mod! And also on the tech front being more clear. I don't mean "no safety." You connect to a hosted server like you do when you play on Zandronum or Odamex. You just don't have a choice which battle mode, maps or players you get. Classic multiplayer DOOM is better when you want to play specific maps with a group of friend. This is intentionally a different experience. 0 Share this post Link to post