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EarthQuake

Classic Doom Limits

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You could give MBF a go, in 'feel' it's probably a bit closer than PrBoom.

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Will do... and thanks for everyone's input..

As a side note, I've exceeded what I thought was the blockmaps limit O_o with no errors...It seems that reject and blockmap limits are at 65535.

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EarthQuake said:

Doom95, IMO, had the best front end I've seen. I don't care about support for more than one .wad at a time, because if someone doesn't know how to make wad without including all the content in one file, then I'll probably delete it as soon as I open the zip file :)
And I don't care what everyone else thinks about Doom95!


If you want to run multiple PWADs using doom95 you can do so if you use a batch file or shortcut (or the "run" feature on the taskbar menu) and apply the command line parameters, like: doom95 -file mm.wad mmmus.wad. You can also use the command line to record demos, a feature that's broken on the launcher. Though you can fix the recording bug with this:

ftp://3darchives.in-span.net/pub/idgames/utils/misc/dm95fix.zip

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EarthQuake said:

... It's.. uhh... against my religion.

I don't like all the new features alot of the source ports add on (such as 3D acceleration, jumping, mouselook), so I just use Doom95.
I test with Doom2.exe in detailed areas, where it will crash if it finds a visplane overflow :)

I've added up the total number of sidedefs and linedefs from the wads im merging, and it totals out to be more than what Lavarn mentioned above. 15302L/20093S :D

Maybe this level will go down in history ;)


Let me tell you something about Doom95 vs. sourceports. I used to have a bad feeling about any source port because one of them (it was so long ago I don't remember which) screwed up Doom II. Finally I tried ZDoom.

There's nothing to be afraid of with ZDoom. You can turn off any of the "features." And while Doom95 does have the nice launcher screen, ZDoom works 99% like Doom at the command prompt. You just say "zdoom -file whatever.wad" and it works.

Also, you will enjoy how much clearer ZDoom looks. I play Doom95 now and get frustrated. But the best thing about ZDoom, IMO, is that you can use wads with new sprites in them (without doing anything with DeuSF) and use DeHackEd patches as well (without creating a second .exe using DeHackEd).

EarthQuake said:

32,767 is the limit for linedefs, sidedefs, sectors, ssectors, segs, nodes, and blockmap. The exception is for reject (which I'm supposing is twice that). The limits are hard coded and defined with unsigned short integers.


32,767 is the limit an integer can go to in most codes. I'm assuming Doom and its ports were made in either some form of Basic or C++ (I don't know). Reject probably uses a "long" instead of an integer.

One more thing... keep in mind that making your wad too big will crash Doom95's savegame buffer. ZDoom fixes that.

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EarthQuake said:

Doom95, IMO, had the best front end I've seen. I don't care about support for more than one .wad at a time, because if someone doesn't know how to make wad without including all the content in one file, then I'll probably delete it as soon as I open the zip file :)
And I don't care what everyone else thinks about Doom95!

Hmm, isnt that like someone saying they wouldnt play a wad if it didnt replace the music?

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EarthQuake said:

I don't care about support for more than one .wad at a time, because if someone doesn't know how to make wad without including all the content in one file, then I'll probably delete it as soon as I open the zip file :)


Well, don't you have Wintex, EarthQuake?

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netnomad312 said:

32,767 is the limit an integer can go to in most codes. I'm assuming Doom and its ports were made in either some form of Basic or C++ (I don't know). Reject probably uses a "long" instead of an integer.


Actually Doom was programmed in 32-Bit mode (in C) but the data files used short (16 Bit) types for space reasons. This is why all relevant fields in the WAD file have a maximum value of 32767. If they had used unsigned shorts most fields could have been extended to 65535. But if you look at the size of the original Doom levels it's obvious that nobody ever thought seriously about surpassing these limits.
The reject table is actually a bit field with a size of (numsectors)². That is that there is one bit for each sector pair (to be exact, there are 2 bits for both directions) which tells whether one sector can be seen from the other.

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netnomad312:

I use Deepsea for all my lump managing, and I know ways of replacing all graphics without having to include every sprite/flat/etc...


ravage:

I don't always replace music in my own wads. Usually I would only if it adds something to the level's feel.


Graf Zahl:

32767 to -32767 (65535 values) is the range for unsigned short integers in c++. These are what is used in Doom. Since you cannot have levels with less than 0 linedefs or with negative numbers, your limit is somewhat shortened, although you still have the same overall range.
If only the variables were declared with a "signed" short integer, which has a range of 0 to 65535 (still 65535 values), then the Doom limits would be twice as hard to reach.

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Earthquake,

you confused 'signed' with 'unsigned'. The ones which can have negative values are the signed ones, not the unsigned ones. Unsigned means it cannot have a sign ('-'). If you don't believe me, look in any decent C tutorial.

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EarthQuake said:

I don't always replace music in my own wads. Usually I would only if it adds something to the level's feel.

That one wasn't about you. I think it was Vulgar who said he would only play wads if they replaced music.

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ravage: I remember him saying that, so I knew it wasn't toward me :)


Graf Zahl: Sorry, I was thinking straight but it didn't come out right. Come to think of it, I made the same mistake earlier...

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netnomad312 said:

32,767 is the limit an integer can go to in most codes. I'm assuming Doom and its ports were made in either some form of Basic or C++ (I don't know). Reject probably uses a "long" instead of an integer.


It was made in C.

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EarthQuake said:

netnomad312:

I use Deepsea for all my lump managing, and I know ways of replacing all graphics without having to include every sprite/flat/etc...


You don't have to do that in Wintex, either... but my point is, you could simply open it up and add the music from the auxillary wad.

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Blah, where were we? We're kinda offtopic and I think this thread should be closed now :)

Thanx for the constructive/destructive criticism.

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