zdoom's bots

[netnomad312]

Guess it's time I asked these questions. Lately I've been playing DM with ZDoom's bots, because I needed to test one of my levels which also serves as a DM level. They aren't too bright but they're pretty fast, so I've been playing against them to kill a few minutes at a time. But I have some questions/observations about them.

I also made my own little DM level. It's a forest setting (predominate textures are ZIMMER#), with four main areas and a center area which has the exit. In each, there's a little building with a weapon inside (super shotgun, chaingun, rocket launcher, plasma gun) and ammo for it. Each also has one DM start.

1. How can I see everyone's stats without dying first?

2. Biggest question: can I set it beforehand what bots are playing or what team they're on? I managed today to set up a four-team match with two players on each team, but it cost me a life. I had to kill myself via rocket to see the team stats (see question 1), then I eventually tricked the computer, by changing my own color, into putting me on the green team with one ally and three other teams against us. There has to be a more efficient way to do it...

3. I've noticed that bots don't like to fire rockets in close quarters. Makes sense... but they're a little too paranoid, I think; I've frequently opened the door to the rocket launcher's room, only to find two or three bots in there, doing nothing but hugging the corners of the room trying to get a decent shot. Now, the rooms are 224 * 256, and that's plenty of room for a good shot. So I go in there and get two or three kills each time... but my question is, sometimes when I kill them I see one of two of them weren't using rockets, but the super shotgun or something (I put drop weapons on so I know). Why are THOSE bots so paranoid?

4. Is it just my imagination, or are they really, really good with the Plasma Gun?

5. Do the bots have stats or something to determine their tactics? Or are they just plain idiots? I swear, one of them kept running away every time. Which brings me to my next question...

6. Where is bots.cfg located? Can I edit it?

[Carnevil]

Skulltag bots.

[netnomad312]

Er... yeah. Uh, call me an idiot but I don't know what skulltag is or why you think its bots would answer my questions. *Shrug*

[fodders]

netnomad312 said:

1. How can I see everyone's stats without dying first?

Key \ is bound to showscores, press \ or bind another key to "+showscores"

[Use]

netnomad312 said:

4. Is it just my imagination, or are they really, really good with the Plasma Gun?

I've found the zdoom bots aren't really, really good at anything. ;)

[999cop]

Test with humans, bots are useless.

[Rellik]

If their vanilla doom or BOOM levels you can test them in Zdoom, Skulltag, Legacy, or DoomBot and see which one's bots you like the best. I'd recommend going with Skulltag as the bots are great and feature packed.

Do they avoid damaging sectors yet Carn?

[netnomad312]

999cop said:

Test with humans, bots are useless.

Easier said than done. I can't hook up a LAN, and my sucky internet connection makes it next to impossible to play online...

[Zakath]

999cop said:

Test with humans, bots are useless.

You obviously haven't played and tested alot of games....

[Zakath]

Use3D said:

I've found the zdoom bots aren't really, really good at anything. ;)

I AGREE!

[999cop]

Zakath said:

You obviously haven't played and tested alot of games....

No, no offense, but you either are too weak or overestimate what bots can do in Doom.

netnomad312 said:

Easier said than done. I can't hook up a LAN, and my sucky internet connection makes it next to impossible to play online...

well if you are expecting to play it online, you will have to do it eventually. If not, well, I could still own lots of people with 500 ping in the old days and I still had a lot of fun. It depends on how well you can get used to it and handle the lag.

[Zakath]

999cop said:

No, no offense, but you either are too weak or overestimate what bots can do in Doom.

How weak can I get if I said:

Zakath said:

You obviously haven't played and tested alot of games....

I'm not talking about the bots in ZDoom.

I'm talking about alot of other games besides Doom....

But now that you mention it..the only Smart/Great bots I've had the chance of meeting in Doom are TonyD's bots....

(O yeah, Quit hatin on Skull Tag!)

[deathz0r]

999cop said:

It depends on how well you can get used to it and handle the lag.

Too bad over half of the high pingers out there don't understand that at all and have to continously whine and whatnot.

[999cop]

Imho there is no good bots in Doom because bots don't know how to take strategies and Doom deathmatch is required of lots of tactical strategies to be good at it. For me, another FPS that I play - Quake 3, its bots are only good because all they know is to aim with their "autoaim hack". The game doesn't take many strategies as Doom does.

[Zakath]

999cop said:

Imho there is no good bots in Doom because bots don't know how to take strategies and Doom deathmatch is required of lots of tactical strategies to be good at it. For me, another FPS that I play - Quake 3, its bots are only good because all they know is to aim with their "autoaim hack". The game doesn't take many strategies as Doom does.

Lucky for you, the ACBots(The originals created by TonyD for Doom Legacy V1.32 not the hacked up modified ones by Relik) perform strategies and - *GASP* - actually ROAM the maps! (I always did say to myself before August 2002 that I never thought I'd see any Doom Bot roam around maps)

Heh...I like that. Now, For the mentally challenged! (The Quake 3 Bots)

Yeah, that's true...the only thing they're good at is aiming and finding ways to irritate you to the max with their stupidity. They got some whack lines too, for real....I pity da foo who made them so rusty!(Mr. Elusive)

But even through all that, I still smack their asses left and right like a bad habit.
:)

Let's take the time to see what Carnevil can do, even though as much as you piss on Skull Tag, I wonder if he can create smart AI. Problem is he said he could create AI but he didn't say what they were going to be like...Makes me shudder.

[DOOM Anomaly]

999cop said:

No, no offense, but you either are too weak or overestimate what bots can do in Doom.

The Zdoom bots are very easy compared to the Skulltag ones on the hardest difficulty, SkullTag bots are awesome, but Zdoom's ones are good too. :D

[Zakath]

DOOM Anomaly said:

The Zdoom bots are very easy compared to the Skulltag ones on the hardest difficulty, SkullTag bots are awesome, but Zdoom's ones are good too. :D

But don't forget, in the older versions the Skull Tag bots are originally Cajun Bots, so the ZD and ST bots are the same.


And both play like they took an overdose of duff n wine.

*Zakath gets into chilling mode and waits for Carnevil to release the next version of Skull Tag to see what the bots have learned...

[mawcor624]

i know that the cajun bots in zdoom are about as smart as a block of wood... or a bag of bricks... or a peice of, well... you get the point, but they still do go around and SOMETIMES open doors and do a good job killing things. However, when they go to the next level with you, they just run around in circles at the entrance. When i add another bot on the level, it does ok in running around and shooting things, but the ones from the previous level just keep going around in circles. is this a problem with zdoom, or cajun bot, or something else? It's like they still have the nodes for the previous level stuck in their thick heads. Is there any way to fix this? (go in co-op mode and see this for yourselves).

[Darkstalker]

Like Boris said on another thread you created, go to the zdoom forums to tell it.

[fodders]

Merged the threads.

[mawcor624]

i agree that tonyd's acbots are definitely the best doom bots, but they're for doom legacy.... and you can't edit their names/skins or anything. zdoom's bots have that annoying coop problem about them, and all the other bots are for deathmatch only. what do you mean by "deathmatch strategies". the only strategy is when you encounter another player... kill him before he kills you! as long as the bots are good in combat and run around, they don't need strategies! just because bots aren't as smart as people, some can still whoop your butt with a pistol in 5 seconds.... strategies or no strategies!

[Zakath]

mawcor624 said:

i agree that tonyd's acbots are definitely the best doom bots, but they're for doom legacy.... and you can't edit their names/skins or anything. zdoom's bots have that annoying coop problem about them, and all the other bots are for deathmatch only. what do you mean by "deathmatch strategies". the only strategy is when you encounter another player... kill him before he kills you! as long as the bots are good in combat and run around, they don't need strategies! just because bots aren't as smart as people, some can still whoop your butt with a pistol in 5 seconds.... strategies or no strategies!

You're proving exactly what 999Cop is talking about. Having more balls then brains won't get you to Elite status, Grass-hoppa!

Why shouldn't they NOT need strategies? It's all apart of the game! So many ways to kill...so many styles to do so! Why should the ACBots NOT fire at a corner where they predict a player or monster might be.

Or how about in times where they'll grab a certain weapon, see you running up, take a shot, then head for cover.

Or Camp........Well Hell, you know the rest....I hope.

If you want Smartties, stick with the ACBots and play over the net.

If you want stupid asses, check out the bots in ZDoom.

The ACBOT's also have Cooperative. Surely you'd know if you read it's readme file.

[LECTURE ENDED] :-)

[999cop]

Well, I never used Doom Legacy or even tried with tonyd's acbots, therefore I cannot comment on that :p

But Skulltag's bots are nothing more or less like autoaim players, non-tactical.

[Rellik]

Zakath said:
(The originals created by TonyD for Doom Legacy V1.32 not the hacked up modified ones by Relik)

Hey! Heh, if you play on Nightmare! mode the bots are still exactly the same. :p I only dumbed 'em down cuz playing uber bots for the review site got annoying. It's easier to see how well a level is playing if you have time to slow down and see how things are flowing. :) TonyD said he was going to resume work on the bots including being able to set up our own pathing nodes but I have no idea when that will be ready. I'm hoping for the next release but I wouldn't count on it.

[Zakath]

Rellik said:

Hey! Heh, if you play on Nightmare! mode the bots are still exactly the same. :p I only dumbed 'em down cuz playing uber bots for the review site got annoying. It's easier to see how well a level is playing if you have time to slow down and see how things are flowing. :) TonyD said he was going to resume work on the bots including being able to set up our own pathing nodes but I have no idea when that will be ready. I'm hoping for the next release but I wouldn't count on it.

Ahh thanx for the nightmare news! I was thinking they were fux0red delux0r in the new one...[Shrugs]

:-)!

[deathz0r]

999cop said:

Well, I never used Doom Legacy or even tried with tonyd's acbots, therefore I cannot comment on that :p

Try them. They're my preferred choice.

[Rellik]

I'm working on a ACBot deathmatch wadpack. I've got 6 levels done, but I keep thinking I want to make a fancy machinima intro movie thing and that keeps delaying things.

[Zakath]

Mmmmm....Wonder how Skull Tag is progressing....


Damn, wish I knew C++. :/!!!!!!!!!!!!