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Alboroto

What About Sarge?

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Well, Doom is made of the fear that being alone means, but I wouldn't be upset if the storyline involves another stranded marine. (as long as he's not fighting beside me)
Sarge should appear on the cinematics, trying to give orders to a bunch of survivors (including the player).
Crash, in something like a MGS' Codec?

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Alboroto said:

Well, Doom is made of the fear that being alone means, but I wouldn't be upset if the storyline involves another stranded marine. (as long as he's not fighting beside me)
Sarge should appear on the cinematics, trying to give orders to a bunch of survivors (including the player).
Crash, in something like a MGS' Codec?

Yeap, Doom is about being alone, which I also strongly believe that Doom 3 will be, despite those few NPCs.

iD has said that there will be a few NPC survivors, but they won't do anything else than tell you stuff and give you some goodies (like ammo) - no NPCs fighting alongside the player (thankfully - I hate NPC team mates. More than one decent game was ruined by the inclusion of AI-controlled team mates).
I'm sorry I forgot to mention this before.

Remember that sarge is a rank, not a name, it could be some totally different guy XD

The rank is called "Sergeant" (pronounced 'Sar-gent'), 'Sarge' is what the soldiers call their Sergeant when they've got to know him a little better and are being more colloquial and informal with him.
Consider these two examples:
"Sergeant, take your men to the nearest ridge and await my orders!" (superior adressing a Sergeant in a formal way, giving him orders).
"Hey Sarge, I made ya some cofee. Want some?" (A Private who casually adresses his superior asking him a simple everyday question).

"Sarge" is pretty much treated like a name (and not all Sergeants tolerate being called "Sarge", because some can be arrogant bastards). But yeah, Sarge could be a totally different guy, it's just that iD already made a character named "Sarge" once and that this character actually has a lot of personality that kinda fits well with the Doom 3 universe.
And then it was the way he was "described" in the PC Gamer article (he was kinda mentioned as if the reader already knew who Sarge was).

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WARNING: not related to topic soulrevelation...

dsm said:

"Sarge" is pretty much treated like a name...


Belive it or not i used to be 'Sarge' at school! It just about my name: Sergei (read as it written). In russian Sergeant pronounces like Serjant => Serge > Sarge!!!

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Yo Sarge, whaddup? Been enjoyin' any good cigars lately? :-P

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dsm said:

Yo Sarge, whaddup? Been enjoyin' any good cigars lately? :-P


Muahahahaha!!! It was actually like: been enjoyin any good vodka lately?

Oh those school days gives me creeps!!!

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Explaining some crap:

What i meant about sarge giving you orders is that he cant get to you (so he isnt fighting alongside the player), but he sends you orders through the PDA (IE something like "We need you to reactivate the oxygen processor or we'll all run out of air"), but you actually have to do the mission alone (meeting up with the occasional dying scientist who gives you a keycard or something on the way)

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Sorry to bump this thread, but this isn't worth starting a new topic over.

Ever notice the similarities between Sarge's weapon in the Q3 intro and the new assault rifle?

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gatewatcher said:

Ever notice the similarities between Sarge's weapon in the Q3 intro and the new assault rifle?


I don´t see many similarities... Sarge´s gun has spinning barrels and looks a bit like the Venom Gun from RtCW, but the Doom3 Assault Rifle has 2 (or 3?) regular barrels and a different shape.

BTW, just watched the Q3 intro movie again... would have been so cool if Q3 had a real Singleplayer like Q2. I love that mix of dirty futurist style and gothic elements which is shown there and which is present in all the Q3 characters.

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Tetzlaff said:

...BTW, just watched the Q3 intro movie again... would have been so cool if Q3 had a real Singleplayer like Q2. I love that mix of dirty futurist style and gothic elements which is shown there and which is present in all the Q3 characters.


Speaking on other Q3 characters: maybe they will appear in new games of id. It would be so cool to play as a Xaero!!! It will be like episode 1 where young monk takes the first steps on the road of perfection.

I made some counting about Q2 characters in Q3:

Bitterman,
Grunt,
Stripe,
Major,
Razor,
Tank Jr,
Keel.

These might appear in Quake 4!!!

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get that sarge fuck outta doom 3! if the doomguy is badass enough to kill hordes of demons, im pretty sure he'll get to know the situation and what to do ( like he did in doom 1 and 2). i hate this mission-based shit anyways, it reminds me of unreal 2 that was perhaps the worst game i've played in this millenium.

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Yeah I already told them that but noone listens to me^
This is Doom, it's not a mission-based game, it doesn't need NPCs, it don't need the "Oh look, it's the badass, I-wanna-cream-in-my-pants-he's-so-cool" Sarge character, whether original or from Quake. The simple fact that alot of people seem to like this character convinces me that he will be a terrible addition to D3.

I've already stated that another character in the game that you can talk to, or even if he just talks to you, ruins the atmosphere, the feeling of being alone, the sense that you may be the last living human and you'd better kick some ass so noone forgets us.

I pray to anything that may be holy (and I've yet to find something yet, but if it's there, I hope he/she/it is listening) that Id wakes up and makes this Doom.

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heh, i'd rather talk to myself in front of the monitor than any other characters in the game. It is very annoying feature in many horror games where NPCs are like there was nothing horrific happened and they tend to be cool. It ruins the scariness and the atmosphere of the game.

and about other marines, I prefer being my own than sharing my kills with others :P

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The_Aeromaster said:

...the feeling of being alone...


C'mon, Sarge may just scream in the next room while being teared by imps and scaring living shit including you.

I guess npc's will have really bad deaths... just to make you feel doomed...

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niguel said:

get that sarge fuck outta doom 3! if the doomguy is badass enough to kill hordes of demons, im pretty sure he'll get to know the situation and what to do ( like he did in doom 1 and 2). i hate this mission-based shit anyways, it reminds me of unreal 2 that was perhaps the worst game i've played in this millenium.

I think you're being too sensitive about minor issues.
You will be fighting alone in Doom 3 - it's not like Sarge will be fighting along your side. Just because the doomguy is badass, doesn't mean that he knows the layout of the base or has a lot of overview, so he'd need someone to give him a few hints. To me, Sarge is an excellent addition to the Doom universe.

What's wrong with mission based FPSs btw? Missions add a lot to the game instead of the same boring "get-out-of-the-place-you're-in" scenario that got extremely boring in Quake 1.

I always wanted Doom 3 to be somehow mission based and I'm pleased that it is - as long as it isn't exactly like in Q2 where you're told everything including how to move your damn trigger finger.

You should not encounter anyone alive. An exception would be walking in the VERY moment before a hell knight rips some fucker up.

Not meeting anyone alive = old, boring shit
You need to encounter a few survivors to give you some hints and provide some spice to the overall gameplay. As long as these people are terrified and almost totally useless in terms of aiding you directly, it'd be a great addition to the overall atmosphere. It worked perfectly with the few non-intrusive NPCs in RtCW, so why wouldn't it work in Doom 3?

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dsm said:

I think you're being too sensitive about minor issues.

And that's coming from you :)

Anyway, I agree that the levels should be mission-driven. And NPCs are great, as long as they don't get overused the way they are in certain other games. After all, Doom³ is survival-horror-oriented.

An interesting scenario would perhaps be one where a person follows you and helps you get around, only to get slain violently by some unknown entity, as a means of escalation. Just a thought.

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NPCs must be an important part of the game, cause if you go walking through the base with no one alive, you'll have a great atmosphere... for a couple of levels, then it will be boring.

Imagine the sounds of people scared to the point they are totally useless, or a scientist getting possesed in front of your eyes.
Imagine a zombie eating a half alive soldier, or a soldier begging for his life in the room next to you...
Now, tell me, what atmosphere sound better?

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Fredrik said:

And that's coming from you :)

You're absolutely right, I'm in no position to call people over-sensitive so I'll retract my statement and just say that I disagree that adding a Sarge-guy who gives you orders would detract from the original Doom feel.

I see it as an extension of the overall gameplay and gaming world, but the core of Doom hasn't really been touched, because it's still you who fight all alone against a seemingly unstoppable nightmare. The NPCs won't be of any help - I doubt you'll encounter soldiers who (in theory) could still fight the demons effectively (because they're wounded or in shock or whatever) together with you.

The NPCs will just be there to add some excitement and interaction to the game as well as helping the story along. The only aid you can expect from them is info and perhaps some goodies (ammo 'n stuff) and that's exactly what any compelling story game with any respect for itself needs. In classic Doom, the lack of any of this stuff was more because of tech limitations and because the idders didn't have time to implement it right.

I mean, think about a good horror movie. A good horror movie usually has several characters involved - most of which die off one by one - as it adds tension to see how they react to the horror. We've tried being all alone in a world with only monsters and corpses and we've tried it a lot. Granted, we've also tried NPCs before, but that's an issue that can always be extended on.

I will say that I agree partially on the Sarge thing though. If iD implements him so that he's all badass and level-headed, then I believe it'd ruin Doom 3, but if they do it right, and I'm convinced that the iD boys know what they're doing because they've created a really creepy atmosphere thus far, it could turn out to really enhance the game tremendously.

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dsm, completely agreed. If they add this Sarge character, a hardened, battle-scarred badass, and have him cowering, broken and fucking scared, that would have its own fear effect. I think that the game should have someone in the first level or two and have you bring back something to them, and when you do their body is torn open on the floor, and as you approach the monster that did it emerges from nearby shadows, bloodstained. In the first game, a big part of the "story" is to avenge your buddys' deaths, I think that that would take the game a little farther in terms of gameplay, from the original story. Kind of like Manhunter vs Red Dragon. They are both based on the same book, but you get to see how Hannibal Lector is caught in Red Dragon. Another movie comparison : Aliens --> Alien³. Everyone hated Alien³ because hicks and newt died. to me, that made me identify more with Ripley because of the happy ending of Aliens. It makes you want to kill when you have something to protect, or you could just kill the npcs if that's your thing : )

As far as the lonely feeling in being the only person, also agreed that its boring/can be if done like it always has been. If the original DooM was perfect for all time, there would have been no modding community. The fact is that it was(is) a great game, but in order to stay great as time passes it have to have features of modern games to make it appeal to the standards of today.

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Scabbed Angel said:

... Everyone hated Alien³ because hicks and newt died...


i like Alien 3. It was the good ending of trilogy. No happyends and awsome industrial views. The A4 sucked a lot imwo...

speaking of Sarge again: i wish him to die hard with honor... :)

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wasted said:

i like Alien 3. It was the good ending of trilogy. No happyends and awsome industrial views. The A4 sucked a lot imwo...

speaking of Sarge again: i wish him to die hard with honor... :)


right on dude! its my favorite alien movie. from an alien fan standpoint, watching the 4rth movie is probably right up there with having an enraged, starved pitbull chewing on my balls. terrible, just terrible. . . perhaps that's why i am a little offended that some people think that the new hellknight looks like the half human alien in that movie.

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