Community Chest Project

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Deathman said:

I seconded that. We really need a review.

I've got a cool idea - why don't we get Cadman to do a map-by-map review and post it here at DW!!

(apart from that, the only person I know who does full map-by-map reviews is Metabolist, and he doesn't do them that often)

[Kid Airbag]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

I've got a cool idea - why don't we get Cadman to do a map-by-map review and post it here at DW!!

(apart from that, the only person I know who does full map-by-map reviews is Metabolist, and he doesn't do them that often)

Andy Olivera did awesome level-by-level reviews of several major megawads at his site, Visions of Doom.

I'm not sure if he still does anything, since the last update was in January, but an e-mail might be worth a shot.

[Cadman]

I take it you guys want me too do a level by level review of the "Community Chest Project"? If I do this then how do you want me to submit my findings?


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

[Volte]

If you'd like, I'll do one too. :p

[Rich]

Aleaver said:

Anyone got anything to say about maps 16 or 17?

Andy,

I enjoyed playing/recording maps 16 & 17.

Nice designs and good gameplay, especially map 17.

I sent the lmps to you at your parkerinfo email address.


Rich Sham

[Grogglogobofink]

VolteFace said:

If you'd like, I'll do one too. :p

i already told torn i'd do one at some point.

[cyber-menace]

Hey Ultimate Doomer! I just gotta say that I really enjoyed the first map in the CC megawad. That level of yours is tough, and I kinda found out the hard way why not to shoot the guy that looked just like me... And I also didn't realize I could just crush that arachnatron instead of blasting it a couple hundred times with the pistol... and just out of curiosity is there any way to destroy that manubus without just shooting it?

[ReX]

Cadman said:

If I do this then how do you want me to submit my findings?

1. You could post your review on the official Community Chest site, and get the word out through DW news, etc.
2. You could ask someone who already has a review site to host your "guest" review. (I'd be happy to host your review.)
3. You could post the review on your own site.

While I'm sure you'll do an admirable job of reviewing the levels, I wonder if you might be perceived as being too close to the project to be objective.

[Grimm]

Well, he never made any, so . . .

[The Ultimate DooMer]

cyber-menace said:

Hey Ultimate Doomer! I just gotta say that I really enjoyed the first map in the CC megawad. That level of yours is tough, and I kinda found out the hard way why not to shoot the guy that looked just like me... And I also didn't realize I could just crush that arachnotron instead of blasting it a couple hundred times with the pistol... and just out of curiosity is there any way to destroy that mancubus without just shooting it?

Thanks.

You can't actually kill the mancubus by pacifistic means, but you can get the caco in the little room to come out and fight it (if you can, as I'd imagine it's tough to do so) and then finish it off yourself.

ReX said:

1. You could post your review on the official Community Chest site, and get the word out through DW news, etc.
2. You could ask someone who already has a review site to host your "guest" review. (I'd be happy to host your review.)
3. You could post the review on your own site.

While I'm sure you'll do an admirable job of reviewing the levels, I wonder if you might be perceived as being too close to the project to be objective.

I reckon a special news article of the review would do it. Kinda like newstuff, but a special one-off review. Then we could all comment on it as well.

I think I'll ask Metabolist to give it a review as well, it's worth a try (and he only made one map, so no trouble with level-by-level).

Regarding Cadman being too close to the project - I don't think that's a problem, in fact it would be interesting to hear what the project leader (who made no maps for it) thinks of each map. I had no trouble reviewing it for newstuff (the only special things I did were to avoid plugging my maps in the review, and to take no screenies of them).

[Use]

I got the caco and mancubus to fight, but the caco wouldn't come out, he'd just start blasting when I opened the door up. I can't get into the lower sections, I guess I'll have to keep looking..

[The Ultimate DooMer]

The secret doors are marked in some way, you'll find them eventually.

[Rich]

Played and recorded some more nice maps. Not DSDA quality lmps but still fairly enjoyable.

So far I've been jumping around and have found a lot of great designs and interesting gameplay.

Good job to those who designed 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 14, 15, 18, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 26, 30 and 31. I already mentioned 16 and 17 in a previous post. I'm also familiar with the quality designs and fine gameplay of maps 6, 7, 19, 28 and 32 having recorded them at an earlier date.

Actually, after all their work, I should mention the designers.*

01 - The Ultimate Doomer
02 - Thomas van der Velden
03 - Alex Parsons
04 - Bad Bob
05 - Black Void
06 - Magikal
07 - Gene Bird
08 - Bad Bob
09 - Bad Bob
10 - Kaiser
11 - Alex Parsons
12 - Use3D
14 - Metabolist
15 - Kaiser
16 - Andy Leaver
17 - Andy Leaver
18 - Rex Claussen
19 - Gene Bird
20 - The Ultimate Doomer
21 - Sphagne
22 - Ravage
23 - Sphagne
24 - Torn
26 - Kaiser
28 - Gene Bird
30 - Thomas van der Velden
31 - VolteFace
32 - Gene Bird

* The text was slightly off so I hope I've credited the proper individuals.

Okay, time to check out some additional levels. I know there are many other good maps. I just haven't recorded them as yet.

[Rich]

Torn,

Something odd I found in map 24.

If you play it using Legacy 1.4 there is a cyberdemon and a bfg near the end but if you use prboom or zdoom the cyberdemon and bfg are gone and in their place are six imps and a plazma gun.

I confirmed this with one other player. I also reported it as a bug on the Legacy page.

Also, I looked at the map using deep97 and it does not show the cyberdemon or the bfg, visually or statistically, near the ending. It does show one multiplayer bfg elsewhere in the map. However, the DMTHA utility shows there is one cyberdemon but no plazma gun (?).

Additionally, when using Legacy in skill 4, a baron and two hell knights are in the rocket room even though the hell knights are not tagged for skill 4.

Lastly, I created a wad with three enemies. All three are to show up in skill 4 while only two show in skill 3 and one in skill 2. This map worked in legacy, zdoom and prboom.

It appears there 'may' be an error in the assembly of map 24 or my system and my friend's system are in error. If so I guess it really doesn't matter because these maps are not designed for Legacy.


Rich Sham

[Torn]

Rich said:

Torn,

Something odd I found in map 24.

If you play it using Legacy 1.4 there is a cyberdemon and a bfg near the end but if you use prboom or zdoom the cyberdemon and bfg are gone and in their place are six imps and a plazma gun.

I confirmed this with one other player. I also reported it as a bug on the Legacy page.

Also, I looked at the map using deep97 and it does not show the cyberdemon or the bfg, visually or statistically, near the ending. It does show one multiplayer bfg elsewhere in the map. However, the DMTHA utility shows there is one cyberdemon but no plazma gun (?).

Additionally, when using Legacy in skill 4, a baron and two hell knights are in the rocket room even though the hell knights are not tagged for skill 4.

Lastly, I created a wad with three enemies. All three are to show up in skill 4 while only two show in skill 3 and one in skill 2. This map worked in legacy, zdoom and prboom.

It appears there 'may' be an error in the assembly of map 24 or my system and my friend's system are in error. If so I guess it really doesn't matter because these maps are not designed for Legacy.


Rich Sham

wtf?. I don't understand it. I had a plasmagun at that place tho, but it got deleted before I sent it to cadman. Hmm... I really don't understand it. There shouldn't any imps there, but the weird is that I had imps also there. But it must be legacy bug or wad author bug. Phantom weapons/enemies?.

[Searcher]

Rich said:

Torn,

Something odd I found in map 24.

If you play it using Legacy 1.4 there is a cyberdemon and a bfg near the end but if you use prboom or zdoom the cyberdemon and bfg are gone and in their place are six imps and a plazma gun.

I confirmed this with one other player. I also reported it as a bug on the Legacy page.

Also, I looked at the map using deep97 and it does not show the cyberdemon or the bfg, visually or statistically, near the ending. It does show one multiplayer bfg elsewhere in the map. However, the DMTHA utility shows there is one cyberdemon but no plazma gun (?).

Additionally, when using Legacy in skill 4, a baron and two hell knights are in the rocket room even though the hell knights are not tagged for skill 4.

Lastly, I created a wad with three enemies. All three are to show up in skill 4 while only two show in skill 3 and one in skill 2. This map worked in legacy, zdoom and prboom.

It appears there 'may' be an error in the assembly of map 24 or my system and my friend's system are in error. If so I guess it really doesn't matter because these maps are not designed for Legacy.


Rich Sham

Yep. Same on my system. Legacy shows a Cyber, archie and a BFG leading to the exit. Zdoom shows an Archie and 6 imps plus a plasma gun in the same place. I thought that cyber was a little severe in that last room. Hell he isn't even there. But he can kill you in Legacy just the same. I don't get it either.

Nice job on map 24 btw.

[Rich]

Searcher,

Thanks. I thought I must have been doing something wrong. I did enjoy the map and recorded it in zdoom 47. Fun level :).

[The Ultimate DooMer]

I get a cyber, archvile and bfg in the last room, and this is with ZDoom 2.0.47 as well. Difficult but do-able...

[Searcher]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

I get a cyber, archvile and bfg in the last room, and this is with ZDoom 2.0.47 as well. Difficult but do-able...

This is very strange. I only get the cyber at the exit with Legacy.

With zdoom 2.0 cab 47 I get an archie and 6 imps at the exit in 24. I wonder if it is a Wad Author problem or a reject problem or?

This sure doesn't make it as fair to Legacy users, but not sure where the fault lies. Maybe I will extract the map and rebuild the nodes and such with deepsea then test it. If it works then we at least know that the compilation went bad somewhere, and one of the tools had a hic-up.

[Rich]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

I get a cyber, archvile and bfg in the last room, and this is with ZDoom 2.0.47 as well. Difficult but do-able...

Just curious... did you download your copy of cchest from newstuff? I ask because it seems like there were a couple of builds going around towards the end of the project.

[Lüt]

Archvile46 said:

Someone oughta do a level-by-level review.

I should do that. One regarding co-op gameplay at least. It's just a matter of time, so unfortunately I doubt I'll have that within the next few months :(

Otherwise, I'd update TI with it.

[Volte]

I just tested it.

With the final, /newstuff build, (cchest.wad), there is a plasma gun, two arch-viles (one in the elevator, one in the final room), and six imps.

In the final release candidate build (ccproj.wad) that was internally releaed, there is a BFG, two arch-viles (same locations as above), and a cyberdemon.

I couldn't get either build to show otherwise, with any ports.

[Searcher]

VolteFace said:

I just tested it.

With the final, /newstuff build, (cchest.wad), there is a plasma gun, two arch-viles (one in the elevator, one in the final room), and six imps.

In the final release candidate build (ccproj.wad) that was internally releaed, there is a BFG, two arch-viles (same locations as above), and a cyberdemon.

I couldn't get either build to show otherwise, with any ports.

Did you try Legacy ver. 1.4? Rich and I can not be the only ones with this problem. As Rich stated above on both our systems Prboom and Zdoom both show the proper monsters.

Thanks for checking.

Can anyone else check on their system with Legacy and post results? You don't have to play the whole level if you don't want just use god mode from the start and clip straight ahead three rooms to the exit in map 24 and look for a cyber. Only take a couple of seconds.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Rich said:

Just curious... did you download your copy of cchest from newstuff? I ask because it seems like there were a couple of builds going around towards the end of the project.

No, I didn't - my version is a modified final release build (which I called cc.wad), as it has my music wad planted in it. I've got the map 25 update, but obviously not the map 24 one. Shouldn't be too hard to fix, though... (even though I can actually kill the cyber without cheating)

[Rich]

Aleaver said:

Anyone got anything to say about maps 16 or 17?

Andy,

Did you ever get my lmps of 16 & 17?

[Torn]

hehe, can you send me the lmp of map24, I'd like to see it. :)
send it to here: mailto:tornthedark@nospam.yahoo.dk

remove nospam.

[Rich]

Torn said:

hehe, can you send me the lmp of map24, I'd like to see it. :)
send it to here: mailto:tornthedark@nospam.yahoo.dk

remove nospam.

Sure! I just now sent it.

[Use]

Dude Rich, record some of my maps. I'd like to see them done by someone else. What do you use to record? Legacy? prBoom? ;)

[Cadman]

Okay guys...make sure that you download what is now in "newstuff". When I initially released it was missing the DEH & BEX files in the zip. I quickly re-uploaded the corrected zip with all the files intact. I made a note earlier in the forum about this issue so the correct zip is in there. Thanks everyone!

Also, just a point of observation, even though all the maps have a tendency to be very difficult for Co-op play I can probably say that the maps didn't get the added monsters, health, ammo and artifacts as a "net" game demands. Of course in just about any editor you can include the extra stuff and check the box for "net only" and it would only show up in "net mode." The four player starts are there but the ammo, health and monster numbers are the same as in a single player game. I really haven't looked at it closely but I can probably guarantee that observation for most of the maps within the project. If the mappers did it for their map then I congratulate them for remembering that observation and beefing up their maps accordingly.


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Map 20 has extra co-op stuff in it (even a special teleporter).

Map 01 (due to it's pistol-based nature) doesn't.

Rich: I wouldn't mind seeing a demo of my maps, as it would be interesting to see how someone else approached them. (preferably Legacy 1.40 or ZDoom 2.0.47 - yes it works, I just recorded a demo on v47 and it played back fine)