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Julian

Interventionism

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No way. Not because I give a damn about our existence from a philosophical point of view, but there's just nothing whatsoever that backs up the theory of alien intervention. Evolution for me.

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Fredrik said:

No way. Not because I give a damn about our existence from a philosophical point of view, but there's just nothing whatsoever that backs up the theory of alien intervention. Evolution for me.

You should really read at least the second part. Tho the first one is a real blast in the darwinists face.

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I'm too lazy to read all that, so I'll just assume the biased point of view that all the article's claims are are invalid. Try me.

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Let's see... read a whole load of stuff that may or may not annoy me, or play CChest? That's a tough one.

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I don't agree 100% with any of the ideas, although in my opinion, I think undirected panspermia is probably the closest.

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That was a surprisingly good read, though it seems natural that any diety is just as capable of bringing life to planets as "terraformers" would be. It any rate, there are a lot of interresting points there.

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Chalk me up on the list of "I'm not going to bother to read that or click on the link, but I feel like replying anyway" people.

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Fredrik said:
I'm too lazy to read all that, so I'll just assume the biased point of view that all the article's claims are are invalid. Try me.


Don't worry about it, I breezed though it and... there's some nice (but not too original) science fiction there, but not much more.

I have nothing against the idea of life not originating on Earth, or anything against the idea of multiple sources of life, but I gather it'd be more like a giant cycle in space where when a living planet is old the life on it becomes very simple yet very resistant and as the planet is destroyed its parts disseminate and in some form reach younger planets that may potentialy "live," or something like that. But that idea about intelligent dudes coming over here to harvest life... I'm like "whatever."

We humans are just awed at intelligence because it surpasses us as individuals, but really, why think it's more than just something complex, why always try to look for another unseen level of it?

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myk said:

We humans are just awed at intelligence because it surpasses us as individuals, but really, why think it's more than just something complex, why always try to look for another unseen level of it?

Same thing about religion and the afterlife. Why try to describe it in detail, with pearl gates and Jesus and sins and commandments, and use such folklore to form other opinions?

Although I'm sure I'm just preaching to the, well, you know the rest.

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The first one is interesting and certainly possible, I suppose, but it solves NOTHING. Then, instead of life evolving on Earth, life had to evolve on some other planet. It's just taking the origin-of-life debate one step back. The original life still had to come from somewhere, after all.

The second one is just utter nonsense. Humans aren't related to primates because we have less hair and aren't as strong? It claims that bipedal apes exists but have just never been found? MACROEVOLUTION DOES NOT EXIST? Sorry, that whole thing is just crap.

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Yeah, the concept of extra terrestrials causing all of this still doesn't explain how they got to that point to begin with... but then again, how is it possible for a god to exist? The whole thing doesn't seem all that much different than creationism, but it does bring up some interresting points countering Darwinism that can be accepted without believing in alien involvement. If anything, though, the points he makes do little other than suggest that there is a higher being that didn't just drop it's seed and run... it comes back to check on things, it mainly does so in taking the stance that humans are not as important as many of us would like to believe. Like you said, Ling, it really doesn't solve anything... it just tries to disprove the solutions we already have, but then again, it's kind of foolish to expect any sort of real solution. Not even Darwinism, though it tries, can give any sort of explanation... there had to be something instead of nothing for anything to become what it is, and there's no explanation as to why there is more than nothing, or how that something got there to begin with.

The second one... well, I can see how you can see it as crap, Ling, and I agree that some parts are a little far fetched, but some of the things in it seem to be as logical a conclusion based on the information we have today at the idea that we are the result of macroevolution.

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Interventionism isn't a weird idea at all. Look at us for example. We send objects to other planets and we feel the need to explore space. All it takes is another race, similar to ours regarding the eagerness to explore other planets, and you might one day start alien life on another planet as an experiment. It might have happened to us.

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Disorder said:

Interventionism isn't a weird idea at all. Look at us for example. We send objects to other planets and we feel the need to explore space. All it takes is another race, similar to ours regarding the eagerness to explore other planets, and you might one day start alien life on another planet as an experiment. It might have happened to us.


agreed.. if the first cells of life here on earth arrived from somewhere else, that doesnt really change evolutionary theory, it just makes me more hopeful that we'll be able to spread life in a similar fashion.

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mewse said:

agreed.. if the first cells of life here on earth arrived from somewhere else, that doesnt really change evolutionary theory, it just makes me more hopeful that we'll be able to spread life in a similar fashion.

mewse, the intergalaxtic spunkgun

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Ok the idea that life didn't start here is fucking stupid.

Isn't that a plot line from Star Trek or some shit?

I totally deny the idea that some alien jacked off in space a billion light years ago and the spooge just happen to land on earth and cause life.

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I noticed how he conveniently "forgets" about the existence of DNA throughout almost the entire article, which would otherwise make many of his arguments completely invalid.

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Linguica said:

The first one is interesting and certainly possible, I suppose, but it solves NOTHING. Then, instead of life evolving on Earth, life had to evolve on some other planet. It's just taking the origin-of-life debate one step back. The original life still had to come from somewhere, after all.

That's the exact same thing I was thinking. I read the first half of the first article, but pretty much everything in it was easily refutable so whatever. Panspermia is possible but rather unlikely. Any kind of life-form travelling through space will not likely be able to survive the void and extremely low temperature. If they do, they will run out of any nutrients they are surviving on long before they reach any planet. In short, they would have to be in some kind of air-tight micro-environment to ever survive the trip.

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the_Danarchist said:

Any kind of life-form travelling through space will not likely be able to survive the void and extremely low temperature. If they do, they will run out of any nutrients they are surviving on long before they reach any planet.

A much lesser problem than one might think. We already know of microorganisms on Earth that can survive for indefinite periods of time without any nutrition and under extreme conditions.

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Fredrik said:

A much lesser problem than one might think. We already know of microorganisms on Earth that can survive for indefinite periods of time without any nutrition and under extreme conditions.

Hmmm, I guess you are right. Still, it took millions of years just for those Mars rocks to reach Earth. Think of how long it would take something from outside the solar system to get here. I don't even know if the Universe is that old. o_O

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the_Danarchist said:

Hmmm, I guess you are right. Still, it took millions of years just for those Mars rocks to reach Earth. Think of how long it would take something from outside the solar system to get here. I don't even know if the Universe is that old. o_O

Recent estimates suggest that the universe is 13 billion years old (or thereabout), which is long enough not to preclude the possibility of life forms at least coming from regions of our own galaxy.

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Heh, reminds me of an old movie I saw on TV a few years back. A group of about 20 miners (oil, I believe) had set up station in Antarctica. They began drilling and eventually drilled deep into an alien ship. An alien was awoken and let loose, and although it killed a few of the people, it also helped a lot of them. They dug further into the ship and found "blueprints" of all kinds of lifeforms on Earth, some insta-heal gunk and some other things for the process of creating life. They eventually discover that the aliens had spawned life on Earth for a food supply, kinda like Earth was a giant farm, and the aliens were coming back soon to collect harvest.

Of course, the miners somehow break the signal beacon the alien's trying to set up and the rest of the aliens never get the harvest signal, but I still think it was still a great concept.

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