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AirRaid

DooM³ (as opposed to just DooM3)

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myk said:

You're fraggle on this forum, not Fraggle (or whatever


Heh, I don't think fraggle is too bothered about that...

deadnail, however...

:P

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myk said:

You're fraggle on this forum, not Fraggle (or whatever), and this is DOOM³, not Doom 3.

Yeah, I honestly have no idea why they've decided to change the forum name.

Someone might type it Doom3 or something if he's lazy or if the name is being adapted to a format or if "DOOM³" isn't possible (such as in a standard TXT file,) but otherwise you'll see the logo or DOOM³. Commercial products (with trademarks) are like that; either named by the proper logo (whenever possible) or else typed in a certain way (Quake, DOOM, Coca-Cola, tATu, etc.) Leet speak and the weird examples you gave above have nothing to do with what I'm saying.

The trademark is on the doom logo, not on the name (even with a 3). You can trademark logos like id have done here but you cant cant trademark english words. When in a written context like this you're just writing english words. Putting one character in superscript doesnt change that.

DOOM³ certainly means id Software's game, whereas Doom 3 might not,

What else could it possibly mean? Please give examples.

plus DOOM³ is tied to all the relevant associations made on this thread about the character setup in relation to the game, whereas Doom 3 does not bring any of those up.

What

And the present logo wasn't made like that "just because" at all.

My point is this: you're trying to "draw" the logo in some kind of vague ascii art. The logo looks kind of like this: "DOOM³". But this is not the name of the game. The name of the game is "Doom 3". If you're just writing text on a forum, its most sensible to simply refer to it by the name, rather than trying to "draw" the logo with extended characters/html tags.

So in this context what the logo looks like is irrelevant, as the logo does not define the name of the game. Unless of course you have some kind of special insight into the reasoning behind the way the logo was designed which would suggest otherwise.

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dsm said:

Mod abuse anyone? Oh well, as long as it's only for a single week.

DooM


rofl, way to think I was serious :P (ps I've only banned three people ever, and hardly for something as dumb as writing DooM (though writing DooM is dumb, hehe))

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D00M³ : ćáçk öƒ †hè 1337ŧ§ÇÏÍ Àr†

EDIT: oh wow, the software was changed mid-post. Funny.
EDIT2: retry

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the_Danarchist said:

I AM A MORON I AM A MORON I AM A MORON I AM A MORON I AM A MORON : ćáçk öƒ †hè 1337ŧ§ÇÏÍ Àr†

EDIT: oh wow, the software was changed mid-post. Funny.

heh, oh dear, its in a few other threads too. I forgot, what was replaced with it just now?

Edit: O_o Why did they Replace "d0" with I AM A MORON I AM A MORON ?

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DOOM Anomaly said:

Edit: O_o Why did they Replace "d0" with I AM A MORON I AM A MORON ?

Not sure, but it seemed to mess up Julian's sig for a while.

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I thought the whole point of writing it Doom³ was to take the piss out the stupid new logo, not because anybody cares about it looking right. But maybe that was just me.

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I dunno about you guys, but this discussion is beginning to annoy my eyes - especially with all this "I AM A MORON (repeats)" crap all over the place.

In other words: this discussion has turned rather stupid and redundant imo.

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fraggle said:
The trademark is on the doom logo, not on the name (even with a 3). You can trademark logos like id have done here but you cant cant trademark english words. When in a written context like this you're just writing english words. Putting one character in superscript doesnt change that.


As well as being property and a kind of "business stamp" belonging to the commercial company that uses it the trademark is an identifying tag for the product (or game, or thing.) Phonetically the logo-like way I write it and Doom 3 are the same, but in a written context they are effectively different. To say what you are saying (that simple english will do the same) you have to think that the way you write something doesn't make much of a difference and only the oral spelling of something will define its meaning, but in a visually based environment like the internet or other media the way you write or show something sure does make a difference. Using the exact spelling for something you are being much more specific.

What else could it possibly mean? Please give examples.


Some PWAD called doom3.wad, for instance. There was one that I think was a rip of pgate.wad or something, and then there was Legacy's wad, that has been called doom3.wad in some versions. Then of course, it could mean practically anything else called as the capitalized english word "Doom" and the number 3. The third chapter of a story called Doom, or whatever, or the third in a series of games called "The Doom of Haraka" or something, in a context where abbreviating it to Doom 3 is enough... you could be contrasting the series with one called "The Rebirth of Haraka," another series of related games (Rebirth 2 and Rebirth 3, whatever.)

What


I mean the posts above drew conclusions or speculated in respect to the name of the game (or the logo) being written with capital letters and a 3 in superscript. Such conclusions and speculation are not possible when writing it "Doom 3" or "DOOM III."

Look at how you wrote "What" without a question mark; the way you wrote it it means something like "this is so unclear I doubt you could even explain this, so let's move on" or something, as opposed to the normal "What?" that seems to actually request an explanation. As you can see the way its written sure makes a difference.

My point is this: you're trying to "draw" the logo in some kind of vague ascii art. The logo looks kind of like this: "I AM A MORON I AM A MORON I AM A MORON I AM A MORON I AM A MORON ". But this is not the name of the game. The name of the game is "Doom 3". If you're just writing text on a forum, its most sensible to simply refer to it by the name, rather than trying to "draw" the logo with extended characters/html tags.


What I'm doing is pretty much the opposite of what ascii art does, which is write something in a "new" and unusual (often even relatively hard to read) way. I'm using the alphabetic and numerical characters normally and I'm writing it as closely as possible to how the creators of the game are calling it, and as I predict or presume they will type it out in their documents and presentations.

So in this context what the logo looks like is irrelevant, as the logo does not define the name of the game. Unless of course you have some kind of special insight into the reasoning behind the way the logo was designed which would suggest otherwise.


Well, as I said above the way you write something certainly does make a difference. Granted we understand what Doom 3 will mean in this context... I mean, we even understand that the string of I AM A MORONs means the name of the game (or the game) in this thread as well, but in other contexts or from less specialized perspectives Doom 3 might not easily be identifiable with the game.

I've been agreeing from the start that under certain contexts spelling variations will still be understandable, but I certainly disagree with the idea that it doesn't matter or it doesn't make a difference whether you spell it like this or like that.

As for the insights, that's what this thread started with, the way the name of the game is written brings up associations and meanings that don't appear if you just bluntly spell it using simple standard english. As I said trademarked logos often have analogous text spellings that are used "officially" and they work just like the logo in naming the product (but in a less graphical context.)

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like my username.. which in itself is stupid. I should have known better than to use a username like this on a doom forum. shame on me.
I'll just call it doom 3, or "the new doom game"
just as long as people understand what I am talking about. not that I ever talk about the game.
³ would just mean it is advanced greatly.. I guess.

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myk said:

As well as being property and a kind of "business stamp" belonging to the commercial company that uses it the trademark is an identifying tag for the product (or game, or thing.) Phonetically the logo-like way I write it and Doom 3 are the same, but in a written context they are effectively different. To say what you are saying (that simple english will do the same) you have to think that the way you write something doesn't make much of a difference and only the oral spelling of something will define its meaning, but in a visually based environment like the internet or other media the way you write or show something sure does make a difference. Using the exact spelling for something you are being much more specific.

This is a text forum and as such is not a visual environment. We are communicating with text; infact the settings of the forum specifically deter the use of graphics. The superscript isnt part of the spelling of the name of the game, it is formatting used in the logo. I assert that having the 3 in superscript is not more "exact" in any way.

Some PWAD called doom3.wad, for instance. There was one that I think was a rip of pgate.wad or something, and then there was Legacy's wad, that has been called doom3.wad in some versions. Then of course, it could mean practically anything else called as the capitalized english word "Doom" and the number 3. The third chapter of a story called Doom, or whatever, or the third in a series of games called "The Doom of Haraka" or something, in a context where abbreviating it to Doom 3 is enough... you could be contrasting the series with one called "The Rebirth of Haraka," another series of related games (Rebirth 2 and Rebirth 3, whatever.)

You could say something like "doom 3 has really great lighting effects!" and this could be ambiguous. But the context defines the meaning (and you seem to agree with me on this). If you were posting in a newstuff review thread where a wad called doom3.wad was reviewed, it would be obvious what you were referring to, just like if you were posting in a forum like this one, its obvious you're referring to the game.

All the examples you've provided seem pretty obscure, in any case. And I refer you to my previous example of the Half-Life logo. Should we always refer to Half-Life as "HλLF-LIFE"? Someone might make a wad named halflife.wad, and then it would be ambiguous. Or if I was posting on a Physics forum it might be confused for the game!

The only people I can think of who are unlikely to understand what it refers to are those who are not already aware of the game, in which case putting the 3 in superscript is not going to help.

What I'm doing is pretty much the opposite of what ascii art does, which is write something in a "new" and unusual (often even relatively hard to read) way. I'm using the alphabetic and numerical characters normally and I'm writing it as closely as possible to how the creators of the game are calling it, and as I predict or presume they will type it out in their documents and presentations.

Where have the creators of the game used a superscript 3 in writing about the game? Carmack in his plan refers to it as just "Doom" from what I've seen. Todd Hollenshead writes Doom III.

As I said trademarked logos often have analogous text spellings that are used "officially" and they work just like the logo in naming the product (but in a less graphical context.)

I havent seen it used as an official analagous text spelling anywhere.

It comes down to this: what is the name of the game? One logo we've seen has the 3 in a superscript. That doesnt define the name of the game. Until I actually see the copyright logos refer to the game as "Doom ^3", or the developers in their plans referring to it as that, or it even being referred to that by any kind of news site whatsoever, I'll refer to the game by the name it is being presented as having.

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The Merovingian said:

I say we write it "DooM ]I[".

I say we cut the crap and write it the following ways:
D3, Doom 3 or Doom III.

Oh and of course, "the new Doom" is also ok.

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Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:49:26 -0500
From: Todd Hollenshead
To: Simon D Howard
Subject: Re: Doom III

"DOOM 3" is proper.

At 06:54 PM 6/25/2003, you wrote:
>Hi Todd,
>
>I'm sorry if this seems like a really stupid or trivial question, but I've
>been involved in a debate over this issue with some other people. What is
>the name of the new Doom game? The logo shown in the video from E3 shows
>the '3' in superscript, like "Doom cubed". Does this define the name of
>the game as being this? If we're writing about the game on a website for
>example, should we put the 3 in superscript to be more "exact" in writing
>the name of the game? Or is it just part of the fancy logo design?

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Oh, so it needs to be capitalized then? Seems like pretty much everyone failed it. :)

[edit]Smiley added, just to clarify...[/edit]

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I dunno why I didn't just close this thread when it was beginning to grow retarded (wait! It WAS retarded all along!).
Maybe I was worried that I'd hurt the little Members' feelings. Guess I've grown soft.

Anyways, here are my final comments on this issue: I don't personally care HOW people write the name of this (hopefully) kickass game as long as it does not bother anyone.

Problem is: The "Doom cubed" way seems to be annoying someone, so I'd politely suggest that you quit writing it like that (some Staffer got so annoyed that he made it into a script thingy that automatically turned the "Doom cubed" thingy into "I AM A MORON (repeats)").

What I really hate is when some faggots start arguing that their way of writing the name is the "right" one or the "best" one. If iD says "DOOM 3" is proper, then it means: "the name Doom (or DOOM) followed by a proper number, like 3, is the most sensible, or if you prefer, proper way to write it". That doesn't automatically mean that the name "Doom" in all caps followed by 3 is the "correct" way to do it - merely that the name should be followed by a "3". I mean, I've seen it written like "Doom 3" a myriad of times before and nobody complained.

Next time I see someone claim that writing the name like "X" instead of "Y" is better, I'll delete the post and subsequent posts without mercy. If the person persists, I'll talk to the other Staffers about possibly banning that person for plain obstinacy.

Am I clear? Now shut up with this lame discussion and give it a rest.

Thread locked

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dsm said:

Maybe I was worried that I'd hurt the little Members' feelings.

What?

dsm said:

What I really hate...

...has nothing to do with the topic at hand and shouldn't be treated as if it did.

dsm said:

Next time I see someone claim that writing the name like "X" instead of "Y" is better, I'll delete the post and subsequent posts without mercy. If the person persists, I'll talk to the other Staffers about possibly banning that person for plain obstinacy.

No, you won't.

Now settle down, and you can avoid ending up on the service end of a ban.

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dsm said:

Anyways, here are my final comments on this issue: I don't personally care HOW people write the name of this (hopefully) kickass game as long as it does not bother anyone.

[/b]


...hopefully kickass?

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Well, technically it isn't out yet, so all we can do is hope. Still, I am quite confident that it will be a most excellent game.

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Hey Airraid! You can now post that info from Rellik's email yourself. It seems I no longer have to post it or unlock it for you :P

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Shenanigans!

Anyway, I got an email from Rellik last night about this -

Rellik said:

The guys at id originally were just going to call it
"Doom". They said that since it's not a sequel it
wouldn't make sense to them to name it DOOM3. They
also knew that it might be confusing to release two
games with the same name but back in 2001 hey were
still undecided on what to do about that problem. If
they could've, they woulda just called it DOOM.
Apparently their still trying to figure out exactly
what to call it. :p


So heh, sounds like it could still be up in the air...

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AirRaid said:

Shenanigans!

Anyway, I got an email from Rellik last night about this -



So heh, sounds like it could still be up in the air...


Heh, no I don't think so. It's been Doom 3 for a looooong time now. Changing that would be idiotic.

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dsm said:

Problem is: The "Doom cubed" way seems to be annoying someone, so I'd politely suggest that you quit writing it like that (some Staffer got so annoyed that he made it into a script thingy that automatically turned the "Doom cubed" thingy into "I AM A MORON (repeats)").

What I really hate is when some faggots start arguing that their way of writing the name is the "right" one or the "best" one. Thread locked


No one else sees a contradiction here?

Kudos Lut, ive been sick of this shit for a while now

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