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dr_qui

interactivity

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Carp said:

Even taking a look at Quake, it just had your basic lift, trap, trigger, door etc and the "bring it on" style of game play which was very enjoyable... ...is fine.


Exactly, interactivity isn't necessary for fun. Atmosphere is one of the most important factors for me (why I love Q1 so much), and D3 looks like it is going to have shitloads of it.

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Carp said:

I dont know about others, but for me, if Doom 3 doesnt have a tonne of interactivity but follows similar to what Doom and Doom 2 has in the way of lifts, crushers, triggers etc along with its in your face battle with monsters then im happy because thats what I call fun.

I think to much interactivity can ruin a game. I played through Doom and Doom 2 numerous times but I didnt play HL all the way through because I couldnt be bothered. While some of the interaction was good I just found it to eventually become annoying and got tired of listening to a scientist/dying scientist crap on about what has to be done.

Even taking a look at Quake, it just had your basic lift, trap, trigger, door etc and the "bring it on" style of game play which was very enjoyable so I dont think you really need a lot of intereactivity but a nice balance is fine.

This is more or less what I've always wanted to explain to others when discussing gameplay: No smarty-pants interaction is a substitue for awesome core gameplay of shooting enemies and basic puzzles.

I tend to focus mostly on the weapons and their "interaction" with the enemy: If a shotgun feels wonderfully powerful and it has the ability to hurl weaker enemies backwards, then I consider that better gameplay than a game filled to the brim with all sorts of smart little things you can do to the environment.

I admit though that I didn't like Quake too much - that was mostly because of the fact that the weapons felt too weak and insubstantial.

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Shaviro said:

wtf are you talking about? You can take whatever part of the level geometry and make it a physics object. I've done so plenty of times with the alpha and I REALLY doubt that will change.

Thanks. That's what we were wondering. I kinda assumed that Id Software would build it like this in the final version, but I had no idea it was already functional in the alpha. Thanks for the info!

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dsm said:

This is more or less what I've always wanted to explain to others when discussing gameplay: No smarty-pants interaction is a substitue for awesome core gameplay of shooting enemies and basic puzzles.

I tend to focus mostly on the weapons and their "interaction" with the enemy: If a shotgun feels wonderfully powerful and it has the ability to hurl weaker enemies backwards, then I consider that better gameplay than a game filled to the brim with all sorts of smart little things you can do to the environment.

I admit though that I didn't like Quake too much - that was mostly because of the fact that the weapons felt too weak and insubstantial.


I agree with you on the weapons feeling to weak and if weapons are a bit corny feeling then that can drop the entertainment value. For example, Doom/Doom 2 shotguns sounded alot better than the Quake shotgun which sounded quite poor in comparison.

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Carp said:

I agree with you on the weapons feeling to weak and if weapons are a bit corny feeling then that can drop the entertainment value. For example, Doom/Doom 2 shotguns sounded alot better than the Quake shotgun which sounded quite poor in comparison.

Yeah, but I admit that Quake also had some redeeming qualities, like all kinds of nifty background sounds that Doom didn't have.

It's weird to think that Quake with all it's many kickass sounds ended up having shitty shotgun sounds of all sounds in the game. (I think the sound I worry about the most in any iD FPS is the sound of the shotgun).

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dsm said:

Yeah, but I admit that Quake also had some redeeming qualities, like all kinds of nifty background sounds that Doom didn't have.

It's weird to think that Quake with all it's many kickass sounds ended up having shitty shotgun sounds of all sounds in the game. (I think the sound I worry about the most in any iD FPS is the sound of the shotgun).


Yeah the shotgun sound in Quake was pretty poor, lets hope Doom 3 has a good shotgun sound although in the E3 Doom 3 trailer wasnt he firing a shotgun but I cant remember how good it sounded.

From what ive seen between the Doom 3 and HL2 trailers, im looking forward to Doom 3 far more. Im only judging by the trailers but the fact that Doom 3 will have some creepy atmosphere should hopefully pump up the FPS gaming experience without needing alot of interactivity because it should be one "hell" of a ride.

I believe Doom 3 is going to offer a far better rush when you begin to wonder what the hell is going to be around the next corner in dark hallways or where the tapping of claws is coming from. Compared to things like in the HL2 short trailer where you see that tall spider thing and they fire the grenade launcher at it and you just think meh, im not worried.

Im not saying HL2 will be bad and you have to play them both to get a real opinion but thats just the way I see it at the moment.

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Exploding barrels have to be in the game. The have a way of making you plan out how to clear out a room. Different types of barrels would makes sense.. not every barrel in the world explodes from shooting it with a shotgun.
Add what they must, just keep it true to doom, which is all about killing monsters before they kill you. movable objects are annying.. I hate the stupid half-life puzzles where you have to move boxes and crap. I don't care if walls that get destroyed are scripted.
I never liked water in FPS games, except when used for effects, like leaking pipes and such. Maybe there could be a monster that doesn't like water at all, like lost souls. You could perhaps shoot a water sprinkler in the ceiling and then not have to worry about lost souls as much.. I don't know.
Monster encounters are important, they should be programmed to seem as if they are hunting for you, not just standing around waiting for you. maybe they will listen for you, and when they hear you, move to a place to ambush you. some of them would have better hearing.

blah blah

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yeah. Like barrels that spread fire all around the place when you shoot them. Maybe we should get to douse the zombies in fuel then set them on fire.:D I hope we get to knock tem over and kick them at the zombies. Maybe knocking them down the stairs at the same time. That would be kinda cool.

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KoRn said:

Exploding barrels have to be in the game. The have a way of making you plan out how to clear out a room. Different types of barrels would makes sense.. not every barrel in the world explodes from shooting it with a shotgun.

I've got positive things to report for ya: I recently saw a screengrab from the Doom 3 trailer in which I saw a barrel with what appeared to have a "flammable material" label on it. This highly suggests that exploding barrels will be in the game, but even without any visual evidence to suggest such things, I can still safely say that exploding barrels will be in the game, simply because it's iD and because it's Doom.
Doom "invented" the exploding barrels in the first person shooter (though I'm certain that exploding barrels have been in other game genres before it) and their popularity has never dwindled. iD has certainly also used them in later games - especially in Quake 2. So far, Q3A is the only iD game post Doom that I've seen that did not have exploding barrels, but the reason for that is obvious: It's mp only where barrels would only get in the way.

Different types of barrels seems highly likely too as the E3 2002 presentation showed a zombie knocking over what appeared to be an empty barrel (I believe it was a different colour than the one I've recently seen in the screengrab) - I don't believe that it'll be possible to knock down a barrel containing flammables without at least something spilling out of the floor, so this suggests that there will at least be empty barrels and barrels containing volatile materials.

yeah. Like barrels that spread fire all around the place when you shoot them. Maybe we should get to douse the zombies in fuel then set them on fire.:D I hope we get to knock tem over and kick them at the zombies. Maybe knocking them down the stairs at the same time. That would be kinda cool.

Mwahaha, I'm a step ahead of you: I thought about barrels like that long ago (I even posted about it recently), but yeah, it's a good idea.
Setting enemies on fire is generally a good idea - even in Doom which supposedly has Hell demons that are more or less resistant to fire (imps can't harm other imps with their own fireballs - perhaps this will be expanded upon in D3).

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Yeah, it would be real nice to see liquid spill out of them, and the flames follow the trail (a la Postal 2's kerosene trails).

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That would be sweet if you could dump gas around or on enemies and light them on fire, muhahaha I can see it now...burn bitches burn. You would of course have to take care not to spill it all over yourself and catch on fire, maybe if you did though they could incorporate fire exstingusures. I mean they would have to have fire prevention around in the areas where they had flamible materials, hmm maybe even fire axe's choppy choppy.

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I'd like to see this. I wonder how long a zombie would burn before it actually died? Or if it does. The imps aren't bothered by fire. I'm sure the Arch-Vile wouldn't haveta worry about it either. Even if the creature itself could be harmed by flame, he could just use one of his spells to protect himself.
dsm, you said you'd like to see the monsters drop in different ways depending on how you killed them? The e3 vid from 2002 had that (i don't know if you were asking or if you were just saying how you liked that in the game).

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