What makes a good deathmatch map?

[zark]

Alright, I have a LAN party coming up so me and my friends have decided to give Doom a go. So, I'm going to make a few deathmatch maps that me and my friends can play. I was wondering, what (in your opinion) makes a good deathmatch map? Like, what level features would be good to include? I've done a few DM maps before, nothing that special though. Also, what (if any) ZDoom features would make nice additions to DM maps? Thanks!

[Opulent]

Well, I've found that some of this is dependant upon the skill of the players who will be playing it.
the dwango/mancer/styx/dweller-type maps are sure to please all but the top players.
the classics like judas23 and map01 are really for challenge-level players more than the masses.
personally, a map with a good balance and flow (like the xfire-series or toke's maps) are probably the type of map you should emulate.
good luck... and don't forget to record. ;)

ps. I don't have much to offer on the zdoom front... remember that with dmflags you can really make some maps interesting....

[Rellik]

Game flow is all important, if you can make the map so any given area has atleast 2 ways in you'll pretty much eliminate camping. You want things to move smoothly and give the players lots of room to slide around in. When it comes to items, try not to put ammo for a weapon right next to that weapon. If you put shotgun shells next to the rocketgun, the player is encouraged to move on to find some more RG ammo, or get a shotgun. Lots of spawn spots is always a good idea, you should have twice as many as the intended number of players just so people aren't always spawning in the same four spots or whatever. There's lots of good maps out there, and you can find a bunch on my DM level review site. IMO, the keys are connectivity, room to move, and setting out items in a way that encourages the players to always keep moving.

[Use]

Three things I keep in mind:
1. Ease of movement, multiple access to sections of the map.
2. Readily available weapons, no wandering around with the goddamned pistol hunting for guns.
3. No pillboxes, where ammo and health can be collected under heavy cover.

[Rellik]

2. Readily available weapons, no wandering around with the goddamned pistol hunting for guns.

Amen to that.

[Tobester]

After playing lots and lots of ET, I think it would be a cool idea to have a stationary gun in a dm map

that would fucking rock

there was an old wad a while back (I beleive the author's name was mud) that was a demo of a zdoom feature with a shitload of imps and a stationary rocket launching foxhole

it took some practice but its fun fun fun

[fodders]

Some "Storm the castle" type wad I had used a rocket launcher in middle of a floor that fired 255 rockets in 1 burst, that was ok :P

[999cop]

Here's a really GREAT guide for making good deathmatch maps.

[The Flange Peddler]

Whilst having multiple access points to most rooms in a map is really important in DM, I think it's sometimes quite good to have some rooms (especially those with the more powerrful weapons) which are quite cramped and only have one entrance. That way the player is pretty much a sitting duck if he goes to get that weapon, but it's a risk they have to take to get the firepower.

[Torn]

999cop said:

Here's a really GREAT guide for making good deathmatch maps.

Thats for quake3. I know it maybe have some good info, but still it is for quake3. You know we talked about it would be cool with a doom version.

[DevastatioN]

Good map I agree depends on the players :)

The top players usually like the usual "standard tournament / played maps" like Map1, and D5M1 this just plainly require great movement and great aim, and great tactics/strategy.

Most other players if your doing the LAN just for fun, play some cool maps that are more open, and have lots of weapon selection, I agree with the Dweller being liked, it has some great maps in it to play, Judas can be a really fun and fast map (Judas23_ not Judas23)

Overall, just good weapon balance and tactics are cool, dont have it all one big arena, most Dwango maps are cool too, esp from Dwango6, Dwango7, DCDwango and LBDwango :)

[Cadman]

Many good points...:)

For me a DM map must have a good flow to it, keep artifacts out of the way so you don't get hung up. A player should have easy access to all the basic weapons. All rooms should at least have 2 ways in and out of that room without doors getting in the way. For me personally the exception to this rule is the plasma weapons. Getting those weapons should be a little more difficult as was stated before, rooms with only one way in and out, maybe put a door in the way...traveling through nukage and taking a few hits on the health meter before you get to the weapon. A good DM map should have all the weapons included as well. BTW...I hate dead-end rooms or hallways especially when there is nothing there to go for.


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

[NiGHTMARE]

An ancient thread on the same subject (so old the thread number was only in the triple digits ;) )

Also, a similar thread about single player maps (not exactly very helpful though =P)

EDIT: Heh, what a co-incidence: both those threads are two years old tommorow :)

[999cop]

Torn said:

Thats for quake3. I know it maybe have some good info, but still it is for quake3. You know we talked about it would be cool with a doom version.

True however the basic principles of creating a deathmatch map are similar

[Rellik]

For me a DM map must have a good flow to it, keep artifacts out of the way so you don't get hung up.

Yeah that's pretty important. If you're gonna put columns or posts sticking halfway out of the wall use impassable lines so that it's harder to get stuck on them. You want everything to move as quickly as possible generally speaking for the majority of the map. Players being able to maintain speed is a good thing. This is why good DM maps don't usually have many if any doors unless they're fast tripwire activated so the player never crashes into them. And like Cadman said, dead end's are RARELY cool unless it's purposely meant as a hazard. Even then it should be used sparingly.

The PROMODE tutorials are great, these guys are all old schoolers and they know a lot about making maps with good control points and game flow not to mention cool tricks that you learn as you get experienced on the map. Very good stuff.

[zark]

Thanks guys :) You've been great help.

I'm working on a small arena-style map at the moment, might have it done for /newstuff on Sunday.

[Gokuma]

Have some doors, lifts, or other moving parts. Doors especially can be used strategically. Too many levels are completely freaking static anymore.

Crowd pleasing features:
-Windows and other areas too short for a player to normally get through but their corpses can be blown through.
-Large staircases for corpses to slide down.
-a berserk pack somewhere
-barrels
-high catwalks to blast a player off
-some Boom effects like low friction, conveyers, deep water, etc, but not too much. TNT Reclaimation is a seriously cool wad but I think some levels take a bit too much control away from players.

Annoyances:
-Weapons you can't or have trouble avoiding when you don't want to switch off your current weapon in the heat of battle. It's freaking annoying as hell picking up a weaker or close range weapon in the middle of an SSG joust.
-BFG too easy to get, especially in a lagged game with multiple players.
-Teleporting into inescapable cages to be picked off or death pits. Some traps are fine but not teleport traps.
-Too many teleporters where you can barely walk without teleporting

Some suggestions:
Look at old 94ish dm wads from back when more people were concerned more with having an interesting deathmatch than aesthetics. Look for good ideas that were poorly carried out or could be done better yet and see about doing them right. And of course you can make it look good in the process. Just remember to credit for whatever idea you take and attempt to improve on.

[DevastatioN]

Some 94ish wads are really good for DM :)

Walking over a weaker weapon = Dont walk over it, maneuver around it, or see ahead in the future that u might get caught on that weapon and pick it up so u dont get stuck later, its your fault, not the maps ;)

[Gokuma]

Some maps I played on ZDaemon had weapons literally lying all over the place. Of course player weapon drop was on so that probably didn't help.

[Rellik]

Can't you set you're weapons prefference in ZDaemon? Then you can pick up everything without worrying about switching to a crap gun.

[fodders]

And you could put "-neverswitchonpickup" in .ini/cfg or type it in consol I think.

[Szymanski]

Try not to limit the players options, the greater the access to an area the more people are likely to use it (because amongst other reasons you can escape if overpowered). And of course if the traffic is greater so will the chance for combat.

Personally I hate narrow passages, it's easy to fire the plasma or RL down them and your opponent is powerless. Keep them short or provide some space to strafe out of the way. Although with bullet weapons it's not such a problem. Ditto for dead ends.

Give the player sufficient ammo and place it through the map to encourage roaming, piling rockets around the RL allows the player to guard it (camping). Fit the weapons to the map, give the player some cover if plasma weapons are being used.

Try to avoid giving the player powerups cheaply, and avoid making quick routes through the map where the player can hoover up all the big stuff.

Thats all I can think of so far, Im guilty of every error i've listed :). Experiment and get people to play test it.

[999cop]

I can remember clearly about all those theories mentioned above from many mapping guides about not to use dead ends, give the player a readily available weapon that is powerful enough to defend for temporary, and try to keep the paths as easily accessible as possible. Ironically, Doom II map01 is totally opposite of most of those points, though it might be arguably the best challenging map for Doom deathmatch all these years, and that's exactly what I love about its uniqueness.