Dead Simple

[Shot803]

I am having one hell of a time getting past the 4 Arachnotrons on the "Dead Simple" level. If anyone has any ideas give me a clue.

Thx.

[Goat]

hehe. just keep running

[Ichor]

4? You must be playing on either skill 1 or 2. Anyway, before killing that last Mancubus, hit all four switches to lower the platforms. This should make it a lot easier to kill the Arachnotrons. Also, save that Megasphere until just after killing the last Mancubus. This way, you'll have 200 health and armor when you begin fighting them. By the way, the invisibility really isn't quite as helpful as you might think. Normally, they would just shoot directly at you and you could just get out of the way. However, if you were invisible, you really don't know which way the next shot is coming from, which makes it harder to dodge (unless you're really far away from the enemy).

[Use]

Yes! Also use the plasma gun against them, they won't even get a shot off.

[SmellyOgre]

There are many ways to beat it, here are two:

1.go around collecting ammo once you start, then get behind a pillar. Strafe left or right by a mancubus and shoot, and stafe back to the pillar so they dont shoot you. repeat that until your down to one mancubus and pull all the switches. kill the mancubus and quickly collect the weapons and ammo. Then simply kill all the arachnotrons with the plasma gun. Be carefull though, they can corner you, and thats not fun.

2. press IDDQD, then IDKFA.

I hope one of these works, good luck.

[Ichor]

3. Use IDCLIP to get the hidden BFG9000, use IDCLIP after you get it, then just blow them away with a few shots.

[Nanami]

SSG and lots of shells works well. If you keep moving they can't hit you. Also if you learn to strafe well (a must really, you gotta learn how to strafe) you can hop behind a wall, then leap+shoot, and duck back again. I ended up doing this in Captain Mancubus to finish off the final boss. It took a while but you can kill anything if you have a pillar to stand behind.

[Grazza]

It sounds like you might be quite new to Doom. As Nanami indicates, this is a map where the ability to strafe (move side to side) is really important (it is possible without, though), so if you're not using that, spend a while practising the technique before trying again.

As Ichor mentions, the invisibilities aren't helpful against either type of monster you find in this map. When you see the best players on this map, you'll often find that they avoid picking them up entirely. If you find it awkward to dodge them, just pick all of them up immediately (i.e. "waste" them), so that the effect wears off as soon as possible.

Oh, and once you've mastered this map and are looking to shave those last few seconds off your time, this thread discusses an important sort of trick.

Nanami said:

... you can kill anything if you have a pillar to stand behind.

Unless their fireballs noclip through the pillar. ;)
I was playing a map of a similar type to Dead Simple with fast monsters a couple of days ago, and of course the mancubus fireballs noclipped through most walls/pillars at will. Fortunately there were some thicker bits of wall to hide behind.

[Nanami]

Heh, man I hate it when that happens. I was playing a map of... Sycthe I think it was? And I dodged only to see a bunch of fireballs coming through the wall at me. Yeah thanks a lot Doom engine!!

[DooMBoy]

I usually SSG the Mancubi to death, then hit the switches that lower the megasphere and Plasma Rifle. Then I simply blast the invading Arachnotrons to death. :) After that I go back and hit the other switches and go pick up whatever I need.

[Epyo]

Yeah as long as you're shooting the spidies with plasma they won't shoot, in fact they probably won't move as long as they're being shot with that stuff.

[Ultraviolet]

That issue is fixed in ZDoom. It was a matter of collision checking not occuring frequently enough, making it so that fast projectiles would be through a wall between the "gaps" in the collision checking.

[Ralphis]

I've never seen that happen. Any demos of this occuring?

[Job]

Speaking of Dead Simple, I could never get into that secret exit with the BFG. Is it some co-op or deathmatch thing?

[Doom-Child]

I just run the around the outside edge of the level, taking SSG potshots when an Arachnotron gets in front of me. Also, I never turn around to catch one I missed. I just get it on the next flyby. The walls are just long enough for two good shots, but not long enough for them to take a shot at me.

DC

[Grazza]

Ralphis said:

I've never seen that happen. Any demos of this occuring?

You mean fireballs going through walls? If so, I presume you normally use a port. There are lots of demos with that. Many compet-n and DSDA demos with a lot of mancubus action will feature it, and in -fast and NM demos you'll sometimes see it with imp fireballs too. Probably happens more often than the demos suggest, since the published demos tend to be the runs where everything goes well.

If you want a specific demo, then this is one of mine where an imp fireball hits me after clearly going through a wall.

[Cyb]

Job said:

Speaking of Dead Simple, I could never get into that secret exit with the BFG. Is it some co-op or deathmatch thing?

that area is for dm only seeing as how it's impossible to exit that map when there aren't any monsters without that exit (there's a dm start in there, and the backside opens the door)

[Grazza]

[nitpick]It would be possible to exit in multiplayer with no monsters without that exit if the players cooperate (see this demo), but it would be a bit silly to require them to do that.[/nitpick]

[SmellyOgre]

Grazza said:

Unless their fireballs noclip through the pillar. ;)
I was playing a map of a similar type to Dead Simple with fast monsters a couple of days ago, and of course the mancubus fireballs noclipped through most walls/pillars at will. Fortunately there were some thicker bits of wall to hide behind.

Heh, i mad a wad where i placed an imp inside a box. so when you entered the room there was a box shooting fireballs at you. It turned out nice.

[w M w]

I bet I can beat this level on ultraviolence without getting hit once, after quite a few attempts though. I think this is the only level I know of that uses the death of an enemy as a trigger for something to happen (killing the last mancabus makes the walls go down). There's no option to do this in, say, the editor "wadauthor" I think.

[SmellyOgre]

w M w said:

I bet I can beat this level on ultraviolence without getting hit once, after quite a few attempts though. I think this is the only level I know of that uses the death of an enemy as a trigger for something to happen (killing the last mancabus makes the walls go down). There's no option to do this in, say, the editor "wadauthor" I think.

After you kill the arachnotrons it lowers the stairs so you can exit the level. And in Icon Of Sin once you defeat the brain you beat the level.

EDIT: thanks for noticing that nanami, it RAISES the stairs after the arachnotrons are dead.

[w M w]

indeed...

[Vile]

Also beware the arachnotron bug where killing the two final arachs around the same time (I believe) will cause the stairs to the end to raise TWICE and make it tougher to exit (you'll have to use one of the nearby lowered mancubus platforms to run up the corner and to the exit switch).

[Nanami]

SmellyOgre said:

After you kill the arachnotrons it lowers the stairs so you can exit the level. And in Icon Of Sin once you defeat the brain you beat the level.

Actually that RAISES the stairs. Also see:

E1M8 - Killing all Barons lowers tag 666
E2M8 - Killing all Cybs ends the level
E3M8 - Killing all Spider Materminds ends the level
E4M6 - Killing all Cybs raises tag 666 like a door
E4M8 - Killing all Spider Masterminds lowers tag 666

MAP07 - Killing all Mancubi lowers tag 666
MAP07 - Killing all Arachnotron raises stairs tagged 667

Any map - Kill all Commander Keens opens 666 like a door
Any map - Killing Romero Head ends the level

[Grazza]

One further map-specific thing...

Nanami said:

Any map - Kill all Commander Keens opens 666 like a door

When this occurs on map32, it opens at turbo speed, while on other maps it opens at normal speed. I haven't verified this myself, but remember it being mentioned by someone.

Vile: My understanding of that thread on the compet-n forums that I linked to was that killing the last two arachs almost simultaneously just caused the exit step to rise earlier, and AdamW's post confirmed that this was his experience too (neither Adam mentioned any drawback to this). The bug you mention does ring a bell, but maybe the cause is different, or it's specific to some port.

[Nanami]

Grazza said:

Vile: My understanding of that thread on the compet-n forums that I linked to was that killing the last two arachs almost simultaneously just caused the exit step to rise earlier, and AdamW's post confirmed that this was his experience too (neither Adam mentioned any drawback to this). The bug you mention does ring a bell, but maybe the cause is different, or it's specific to some port.

I've had it happen in SkullTag and ZDoom a time or two.

[Vile]

Well, it may raise earlier, but also raise twice. Also, on the contrary, it does happen in the original .exe. Watch it happen in this demo by Henning:

ftp://competn.doom2.net:8002/pub/compet-n/doom2/movie/0726nm01.zip

EDIT: I believe this was referring to the contest wad? In that case though, it causes the exit event to happen earlier, but if it were possible, I believe it would happen again when the second cyber/spiderdemon completes its death animation. However, for the rising stairs, the action will repeat itself since you haven't been booted from the level. :)

Though maybe it doesn't always happen... hmm, who knows.

[Grazza]

Thanks - I hadn't watched that one before. I guess in all the others I'd seen with this "trick", the player was close enough to the platform to get on the step before it had risen too far. And in the demo I recorded a few days ago where I got this type of trick to work, the map only featured mancs, so it didn't matter that it might have tried to lower twice. :)

Vile said:
Though maybe it doesn't always happen... hmm, who knows.

Presumably it goes as follows:
1) Penultimate arachnotron (A) dies and starts its death frames.
2) Last arachnotron (B) dies during A's death frames.
3) A's death frames finish; Doom2.exe checks for any arachnotrons left alive. Finds none, and so tells the platform to rise.
4) B's death frames finish; Doom2.exe checks for any arachnotrons left alive. Finds none, and so tells the platform to rise (again).
Now, if the platform is still rising (due to event 3) when event 4 happens, is this different from if it has finished rising by that point? [Or is that impossible, taking into account the maximum time between 3 and 4, and the time the platform takes to rise?]
On NM and respawn, there is the added factor that an arachnotron might respawn between events 3 and 4, thus stopping the bug coming into play at all.

[Vile]

Grazza said:

Now, if the platform is still rising (due to event 3) when event 4 happens, is this different from if it has finished rising by that point? [Or is that impossible, taking into account the maximum time between 3 and 4, and the time the platform takes to rise?]
On NM and respawn, there is the added factor that an arachnotron might respawn between events 3 and 4, thus stopping the bug coming into play at all.

I would think it is possible, which explains why it wouldn't happen all the time. For the first time I fully understand the bug. Everything else you said is correct as well. I hope that cleared up that matter for everyone. :)

EDIT: I also believe that's why the mancubus event can't happen twice because it takes too long.

[pritch]

Heh man Dead Simple is... Dead Simple. You have loads of cover, use it.

Don't give this man Hell Revealed.