Seeing distant battles

[Jeremy]

Seeing a battle in another building through glass would be neat. Imagine being in a room that has windows, and out the window, you see Mars terrain, and a high-rise sorta complex, and you would barely be able to see into its windows, but you could see demons or other soldiers fighting.

I really dont want any NPC though.. or Sarge, he can shuv his ciggar up his ass. I really like the quiet, alone feeling.. Quake II had a great atmosphere.

Security cameras, like in Doom64 {only those ones showed secrets} or Duke Nukem 3D would be pretty cool to see too, to find hidded areas or see demons.

Ooh. and I also want to see a secret level that is a remake of E1M1.

[The_Aeromaster]

I agree.

[Ultraviolet]

<greenalien>I DISAGREE.</greenalien>

[Arno]

I partially agree. Battles in the distance are nice, but I want NPC's up in front as well. I would like to rescue a scientist so he can guide me to a secret area full with goodies. Or help defend a critical area with a fellow marine.
Of course, you should be alone for most of the game, but i'd like to see some surprising NPC's as well.

[niguel]

did you have a scientist lead you to secret areas is doom 1 or 2? no. I think figuring out secret areas full with goodies is our own headache. we dont need npc's.

[insertwackynamehere]

Jeremy said:

Ooh. and I also want to see a secret level that is a remake of E1M1.

I said this, copycat! ;-)

[Alboroto]

Sweet...
I agree with the good old Jeremy about the battles outside and the cammera stuff, but it would be really cool to see some action right in front of your eyes, like a marine that flies through a window, lands in fron of you, tries to return fire but it's attacked by some demon that just teleported behind him... All of this while you are fighting with some demon trying to save your own ass.

E1M1... bring it back!

[NiGHTMARE]

niguel said:

did you have a scientist lead you to secret areas is doom 1 or 2? no. I think figuring out secret areas full with goodies is our own headache. we dont need npc's.

Did we have Mancubuses, Arch-Viles, Revenants, Super Shotguns, etc in Doom 1? No. This isn't Doom 1. It isn't Doom 2. It's Doom 3.

[Arno]

Alboroto said:

Sweet...
I agree with the good old Jeremy about the battles outside and the cammera stuff, but it would be really cool to see some action right in front of your eyes, like a marine that flies through a window, lands in fron of you, tries to return fire but it's attacked by some demon that just teleported behind him... All of this while you are fighting with some demon trying to save your own ass.

I couldn't have said it better myself. It's not just your own life that's at stake. It's the whole human race. If done well, some NPC's can really aid that experience.

And you have my vote for an E1M1-revisited as well.

[Disorder]

I've said this before. I'd love to see a scene like Saving Private Ryan's intro. I know it cannot be done with so many NPC's around you since most pc's couldn't handle that, but something like that on a smaller scale would be fantastic.

You're running through a large empty hallway while all of a sudden you hear a loud rumble. A couple of NPC's come running towards you, screaming that you should get the hell out. You run away in the same direction as the NPC's are going as suddenly a large explosion is heard. Legs and arms fly over your shoulders. NPC's screaming, but their screaming is overshadowed by a much heavier sound. The roar of the Cyberdemon.

Stuff like this shouldn't happen too much, to keep that lonely feeling in the game. But a couple of scenes like this would be nice.

[Tyockell]

Disorder said:

I've said this before. I'd love to see a scene like Saving Private Ryan's intro. I know it cannot be done with so many NPC's around you since most pc's couldn't handle that, but something like that on a smaller scale would be fantastic.

You're running through a large empty hallway while all of a sudden you hear a loud rumble. A couple of NPC's come running towards you, screaming that you should get the hell out. You run away in the same direction as the NPC's are going as suddenly a large explosion is heard. Legs and arms fly over your shoulders. NPC's screaming, but their screaming is overshadowed by a much heavier sound. The roar of the Cyberdemon.

Stuff like this shouldn't happen too much, to keep that lonely feeling in the game. But a couple of scenes like this would be nice.

Hell yea, as long as they dont fuck it up and make it look stupid and fake.

[The_Aeromaster]

Arno said:

I couldn't have said it better myself. It's not just your own life that's at stake. It's the whole human race. If done well, some NPC's can really aid that experience.

Yeah but I always felt that the original Doom was more about personal survival, and later, revenge, and that Doom 2 was about saving the human race. Yes, I do realize that if you stopped them in the first place you wouldn't have had to fight them in Doom 2, but I like to think that in the midst of the carnage all you could think about was staying alive and making them pay for killing your fellow marines. You could worry about why they're there, where they came from, what you should do about it, and all that crap later. That's why I say we don't need "Sarge".

[uniQ]

hmmm...if you like d1 and d2 style so much then get a nice looking port and play it again and again until you vomit and then play all wads you can find. this will keep you busy until 2006.

personally i would prefer some more "interaction". that includes NPCs as well. but not those stupid ones you have to fight along with. daikatana showed us how such NPSs suck big times.
but some dieing NPCs that give you a hint or a yellow/blue/red keycard would be perfect.
having sarge on PDA/COMM would add much to the atmosphere.
also it would be cool to get other NPCs on your COMM just to hear/see them fight and die. HeadCams like in aliens where you can see others doing some mess on your PDA :)

IMO hadn't d1 and d2 those features because it was technically not possible with the engine or it was too "expensive" to implement. those guys at ID didn't have the money back in these days - the game had to be on the shelves in time.

and yes I'd like to see pink keycards this time :)

doom3 shouldn't be a plain remake. I know that game already and i am not looking forward to a doom1/doom2 graphics wonder.

[niguel]

NiGHTMARE said:

Did we have Mancubuses, Arch-Viles, Revenants, Super Shotguns, etc in Doom 1? No. This isn't Doom 1. It isn't Doom 2. It's Doom 3.

yes but this is retelling of doom. doom is about being a lone marine among masses of human corpses. this is doom, not a fucking simcity.

[Zoorado]

Niguel, it's a change for the better. DOOM draws its inspiration from Aliens, and from what I've seen thus far, the atmoshpere in D3 is very Alien-like. Allow me to say that DOOM 3 is more faithful to its source than the original DOOM. Hence, I've no complaint.

D3 is a retelling od DOOM, not a remake. The only similarities between the two games are (and should be) the atmosphere and the basic storyline. Anything more than that, I might as well go play the original.

[Arno]

uniQ said:

some dieing NPCs that give you a hint or a yellow/blue/red keycard would be perfect.

I agree on most of what you said, but I have to comment on this one. IMO, the HalfLife-type of scripted sequences where a scientist speaks a few last words and then dies only because of the fact that you just arrived there is a bit lame. Pre-arranged stuff like this kills the replay value.

I would like to see a wounded scientist wandering around the hallways. There's no telling where exactly you will encounter him. Whether he lives or dies depends on the monsters you haven't killed yet. Maybe you could guide him to a medical bay. Or maybe you can use him to distract some monsters. Whatever you feel like. Different stuff might happen each time you start a new game. I hope Doom3 will feature something like this.

[Coopersville]

uniQ said:

some dieing NPCs that give you a hint or a yellow/blue/red keycard would be perfect.

They could also be used to introduce new weapons and items.

IE: The first time you come across a teleport, (assuming there are ones) there would be some resting marines by it, then some arms come out of the teleport and drag the screaming soldiers in.

[NiGHTMARE]

niguel said:

yes but this is retelling of doom. doom is about being a lone marine among masses of human corpses. this is doom, not a fucking simcity.

You said it yourself, it's a retelling, not a remake; it isn't Doom, it's Doom 3.

Besides, think for a minute. Surely the fact that there's only one surving marine in the entire Phobos base (and it seems only one surving human on the entire planet Earth in Doom 2) is just a tad unrealistic? Especially considering how incredibly skilled and highly trained these guys would be!

Besides, Doom is only about a lone marine in singleplayer. What about co-op? Are you saying that it's crap? That it isn't Doom?

BTW, I really don't get the Simcity reference. Having more than one person in a game makes it a strategy? Eh, what?

[Alboroto]

NiGHTMARE said:

You said it yourself, it's a retelling, not a remake; it isn't Doom, it's Doom 3.

Besides, think for a minute. Surely the fact that there's only one surving marine in the entire Phobos base (and it seems only one surving human on the entire planet Earth in Doom 2) is just a tad unrealistic? Especially considering how incredibly skilled and highly trained these guys would be!

You are damn right...

Think about it for a minute, it's a research base, so it needs to have:

- Scientists
- Janitors and cleaning personel
- Technicians
- Their families perhaps
- Security personel
- The marines
- Etc...

So:
1.- If all of them were turned into zombies, there would be too many of them, making the game lame.
2.- If all of them were killed, you would find corpses everywere.
3.- If some of them were killed and the rest turned into cannibal creatures, you'd find a nice combination of gore and action, but to me it would still feel unrealistic.
4.- (my favorite option) If some of them were killed, some of them turned into zombies, and just a few alive but trying to save their ass just like the player, the game would be perfectly balanced...

[Fafnir]

In my opinion, cool as they may be, NPCs generally worsen the gameplay experience.

I understand that with Doom's technology, as well as the how the style and pacing of games has changed over the past ten years, you couldn't have the lightning fast, kill fifteen monsters at once, and do it again in the next room style of play. However, Doom is built on gameplay... NPCs would slow down YOUR action...

Not to mention the terrible voice acting that would be sure to come along with it.

The only NPCs I want to see in Doom are the ones that are hanging from the ceiling, dead or nailed to the wall with their legs missing, or the ones that are twitching with a spike thrusted through their torsos.

[RAi]

When Marines are forward-deployed, like Iraq for example, there is nothing but Marines. No janitors or anything like that. And I know in DooM it was for research and all that, but you think the Marines could get anywhere near that? Hell no. In the game it should be like that. All the cool stuff just out of reach, a shotgun and 3 shells in your hand, 20 zombies around the corner.

[wasted]

Alboroto said:

2.- If all of them were killed, you would find corpses everywere.

Thats right. I was always upset about corpses of dead enemies.

The q2 had some dead marines, but there were no dead enemies. Of course you may say that all of their bodies gone for repearing cycle, but anyway its lame, cose then yopu have to see the cleaning personnel.

The Doom3 levels should have some already killed enemies, imwo. The fun thing can be made when you will find something like BodiesStock, where lies tonns of dead, rotten bodies!!!

[The_Aeromaster]

NiGHTMARE said:

... think for a minute. Surely the fact that there's only one surving marine in the entire Phobos base (and it seems only one surving human on the entire planet Earth in Doom 2) is just a tad unrealistic? Especially considering how incredibly skilled and highly trained these guys would be!

It would seem that the only reason you survived is because you weren't present for the initial onslaught from the monsters and the lost souls, killing or taking over everyone in the station. How highly trained they are means nothing.

As far as the amount of people on the base, I would think on a secret research base they'd have to keep the amount of personnel to a minimum. How many people do you think you could either fool (in the case of janitors and the like, they don't need to know what's REALLY going on) or keep quiet (in the case of the scientists).

Doom 3 needs no NPCs. Coming across a scientist who gets his throat ripped out by an imp all of 0.258 seconds after you see him is fine, but you don't need to talk to anyone. It's Doom, it will simply ruin the atmosphere. Think about if you're walking down a dark alley by yourself, or if you're with someone. By yourself is scarier (or substitute another situation you might find scary but that wouldn't be as scary if you had someone with you).

[AirRaid]

I agree that Doom3 needs no NPCs, but I wanna argue this point anyway. (This is not a deliberate troll)

The_Aeromaster said:

It would seem that the only reason you survived is because you weren't present for the initial onslaught from the monsters and the lost souls, killing or taking over everyone in the station. How highly trained they are means nothing.

You're saying that the Doomguy is the ONLY PERSON who wasn't 'present'? There weren't other guys outside the base off duty or whatever too?

[NiGHTMARE]

The_Aeromaster said:

It would seem that the only reason you survived is because you weren't present for the initial onslaught from the monsters and the lost souls, killing or taking over everyone in the station. How highly trained they are means nothing.

After the initial onslaught, there will be more monsters present than there were during it, meaning it's LESS likely the Doom guy will survive while no-one else does. Besides, we're talking about Doom 3 here, not Doom. In Doom 3 the Doom guy is apparently already inside the base when the invasion begins.

Doom 3 needs no NPCs. Coming across a scientist who gets his throat ripped out by an imp all of 0.258 seconds after you see him is fine, but you don't need to talk to anyone. It's Doom, it will simply ruin the atmosphere. Think about if you're walking down a dark alley by yourself, or if you're with someone. By yourself is scarier (or substitute another situation you might find scary but that wouldn't be as scary if you had someone with you).

So you're saying that co-op in Doom ruins the atmosphere? I strongly disagree. You don't have to be by yourself for a situation to be scary.

[insertwackynamehere]

Look, if the game has NPCs, which you don't like, then mod yourself some monster-stuffed levels, with no point! They would be fun add-ons, but not for the real game. Alos, I wonder what the file extension will be. It would be cool if it was .wad2 or something that harked back to olden times, which n00bs who got the game because it was popular, wouldn't understand.

[Scabbed Angel]

NiGHTMARE said:

You said it yourself, it's a retelling, not a remake; it isn't Doom, it's Doom 3.

Besides, think for a minute. Surely the fact that there's only one surving marine in the entire Phobos base (and it seems only one surving human on the entire planet Earth in Doom 2) is just a tad unrealistic? Especially considering how incredibly skilled and highly trained these guys would be!

But then where would we use the awesome one-liner "Only one man stands between Hell and Earth"?

[Disorder]

No one can say how NPC inclusion will turn out anyway. If you don't like the idea, it doesn't mean it's gonna suck if you're playing the game. It might turn out to be really cool.

Scabbed Angel said:

But then where would we use the awesome one-liner "Only one man stands between Hell and Earth"?

"Only one man stands between Hell and Earth.. And some other people too."

[The_Aeromaster]

Disorder said:

No one can say how NPC inclusion will turn out anyway. If you don't like the idea, it doesn't mean it's gonna suck if you're playing the game. It might turn out to be really cool.

I agree that it could work, but why risk it?

Nightmare said:

something about the Doomguy already being on the base when the attack occurs

Where did you come by this information?

No, coop is definately not as scary as single player. Coop and deathmatch are just for fun, the real game experience is in the single player mode (in this case anyway, that's why they're not including extensive multiplayer).

I never said the levels would haveta be stuffed with monsters, and how do you figure there'd be more monsters after the initial attack. Just like we do, you send in a barrage to clear the place out, and having believed they killed everyone, they leave a small force behind to hold the fort.

[NiGHTMARE]

Scabbed Angel said:

But then where would we use the awesome one-liner "Only one man stands between Hell and Earth"?

That line still applies because the other living characters don't stand between Hell and Earth because they're too feeble/pathetic/badly injured. Or something.

The_Aeromaster said:

Where did you come by this information?

The fact that you get to wander through the Mars base before the invasion has been plastered all over the place. I'm very suprised you haven't already seen it mentioned before. Surely you've at least seen the screenshot with the marine and the scientist who looks suspiciously like John Carmack?

how do you figure there'd be more monsters after the initial attack.

Because they'd have turned everyone who hadn't been too badly ripped/torn/blown apart into zombies.