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deimosmoonbase

Zdaemon Wallhack/Maphack

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I said:
By the way, don't you guys remember back when Toke made that functional Map01 wall-hack during v0.99 development, or right after it?


Does it sound like I'm posting news to you?

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Rellik said:
You shoulda reported it the second you found out about it.


Actually, I'm pretty sure Toke showed it to me only after he showed it to Night-Fang. He made it for that purpose, naturally.

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Plz dai cheater, rid your system of the evil wad/wallhack crap. You are also banned from Doom Connector, Bazooka

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Are you talking to me, you uncouth, unwashed caveman?

I don't have the map anymore, unfortunately. Also, you shouldn't ban the guy who exposes the cheat, that's a stupid example. Plus, don't spew out death wishes against cheaters so lightly; you don't know who you might just end up killing with that.

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My apolgies, I don't know if he was the one cheating or not.

PS: my avatar isn't a caveman, it's buddy christ

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I see... it kinda reminded me of a character in a comic book series I read when I was small though; "Korg 70,000 BC" or something, it was called.

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myk said:

By the way, don't you guys remember back when Toke made that functional Map01 wall-hack during v0.99 development, or right after it?

I thought it was removed after Fly stopped working on CSDoom?

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Sorry Myk, I was talking to Bazooka, not you. Bazooka you shouldn't have used it, you shoulda just gotten word to the ZDaemon team so they could go about fixing it.

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deathz0r said:
I thought it was removed after Fly stopped working on CSDoom?


Not the wall-hack thing; that first concretely came up well after Fly had left. And the thing about it is that it came up under those circumstances: Toke just made a map from whatever knowlegde he had gathered of how it could be, since he was a skilled mapper by then, and showed it to some relevant people (Night-Fang, me, and maybe others.) My main point above was that it isn't news except that in that it's still possible (if it is)... though that's nothing to get necessarily angry about; it just doesn't give people the right to feel surprised or annoyed if such a cheat was predictable anyway.

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myk said:

it just doesn't give people the right to feel surprised or annoyed if
such a cheat was predictable anyway.


Just because cheating is "possible", we shouldn't feel outraged when someone does cheat? You can cheat when playing "poker", "scrabble" and countless other games. Doesn't mean you won't play that game. Doesn't mean it's not a good game. All it means is that the cheater lacks skill and integrity. I'm always surprised when people cheat, regardless of who they are. We are a small community here. We all know each other, for the most part. I would be embarrassed if I got caught cheating. I think most people in the doom community care about their reputation, and that is what will ultimately prevent cheating. We can spend a lot of time trying to imagine every conceivable exploit and try to program them out of ZDaemon. Cheaters will always find some way to cheat. I would rather eliminate cheaters entirely by banning them. We can certainly do this.

We have to deal with people such as ELIGIO [ABC] and Bazooka. They both earned experience points by cheating. I realize that many don’t care about the points, but some do. I’ve reset ELIGIO [ABC]’s points to zero. Bazooka’s rank is 5, and he has 84379 points. Although he’s attempted to redeem himself by confessing, the fact is he’s achieved that level by cheating. I’m not sure what to do about him at this point. I’m inclined to reset his points to zero, but I’m open to alternative suggestions.

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Reset him and others that cheated to get them, the long way back should be a reminder that cheaters never prosper, and they will need the time to work at becoming respected again.

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myk said:By the way, don't you guys remember back when Toke made that functional Map01 wall-hack during v0.99 development, or right after it?[/B]

he told me about it and and said that it's impossible to cheat nowadays, coz nightfang coded it out, with is sadly not true yet, but i think it's on a good way by now.

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Rellik said:

You shoulda reported it the second you found out about it.

toke and me did so, so i guess it's senseless to cry about the past, let's better look how to handle it now.

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well ... how to handle the cheaters, i think reseting stats already was a good step, but ppl still can play with their fucked up wads, til a fix is done, my point would be reset the players scores (eligio, sayan [his brother] and funconot) and ban them from the servers, TIL a fix is done. of course they can register again, but i think it's horrible enough for them to play with completly new names, to get respected by "the scene" (bad expression i know) again.
when a fix is done remove their bans. maybe a ban from the doom connector would be great too, since as far as i've seen it's their mainplace to spread their fucked up wads. those bans can be removed again as well, until a fix is done, which gherkin is thinking/working about right now.

about bazooka, well he used it and admited, which is good in my eyes, i've seen him play since then again and i doubt he's cheating now anymore, well my point would be, remove 10.000 exp points from him he might have gathered in the few weeks he's been cheating and he's also been banned from doom connector. i've seen bazooka in game playing proper games and i think he's kinda skilled (what makes his cheating even more sad), but i think my points above are hard enough, not to forget everybody bothers the cheaters now, which _can_ be kinda hard as well.

so my point is temporary banning would be a good step, until some kind of fix is done and they _Have_ to play proper games again.

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Raider said:
Just because cheating is "possible", we shouldn't feel outraged when someone does cheat? You can cheat when playing "poker", "scrabble" and countless other games. Doesn't mean you won't play that game. Doesn't mean it's not a good game. All it means is that the cheater lacks skill and integrity. I'm always surprised when people cheat, regardless of who they are. We are a small community here. We all know each other, for the most part. I would be embarrassed if I got caught cheating. I think most people in the doom community care about their reputation, and that is what will ultimately prevent cheating. We can spend a lot of time trying to imagine every conceivable exploit and try to program them out of ZDaemon. Cheaters will always find some way to cheat.


I pretty much agree with that. I questioned the surprise mainly because the wall-hack thing had come up before. Honestly, it surprised me more that it was possible rather than the occurrance itself. I also wondered about some of the harshness on some posts above, since cheating had always been a delicate matter in respect to online games; in ZDaemon's case this being no exception... with cheat discoverers eventually helping patch up the cheats, or with the developer being caught experimenting with cheat a thingy on hapless unsuspecting players.

iWe have to deal with people such as ELIGIO [ABC] and Bazooka. They both earned experience points by cheating. I realize that many don’t care about the points, but some do. I’ve reset ELIGIO [ABC]’s points to zero. Bazooka’s rank is 5, and he has 84379 points. Although he’s attempted to redeem himself by confessing, the fact is he’s achieved that level by cheating. I’m not sure what to do about him at this point. I’m inclined to reset his points to zero, but I’m open to alternative suggestions.


That seems fine... other than that the only thing I can think of is, maybe, posting news about it on the ZDaemon page (or other key places) encouraging cooperation against, and information sharing about, cheating. As I see it the best guarantee against cheating in an open online gaming community is mutual trust between its participants.

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Raider said:

Bazooka’s rank is 5, and he has 84379 points. Although he’s attempted to redeem himself by confessing, the fact is he’s achieved that level by cheating. I’m not sure what to do about him at this point. I’m inclined to reset his points to zero, but I’m open to alternative suggestions.

I personally think you should reset him to 0 points, it would prove that by screwing around, you get to pay the price.

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Yeah, if you go too easy on him it sends the message that cheating isn't a big deal and will be tolerated.

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We can't allow cheating to go on. At the time I first read Bazzooka's admission about cheating, he had 84379 points. Since that time, he's advanced to 94443 points. I subtracted the total he had before he admitted to cheating from his current total and came up with 10064 points. That's what he has now. Assuming he has truly given up cheating, he can work his way back up. If we find out he still cheats, well then he'll just be banned. I think it's the only fair way to deal with it.

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Damn, I always thought that people who still played doom after all these years had some self respect. When I used to play on zdaemon I was always in the top three at least, but I never used cheat codes or any sort, Doom should be about pure skill and knowing what weapons to use in what situations. Hell, when anyone beat me I always congratulated them on a game well played. It's fun as hell to have a good deathmatch in doom, I really don't know why people would feel the need to cheat.

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Dev, your the biggest cheater I know, using that MS ZONE voodoo on me. Its downright evil! I don't even get a chance to breathe.
I just hope that Gherkin makes that IPX emulation on DC before Bill Gates owns your soul. Gherkin is to doom as what pickle is to smoked meat sandwich....... effin A!!!

Anybody that creates an unfair playing field is only cheating themselves in the long run. The doom community is really kewl because most are upfront great people and we don't need cheat lamers, we have enough BFG lamers and low ping artists ;-).

(better go read that how to use BFG at the zdaemon.org forum (shameless plug - Raider is da man!!)

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haha Dobby, we actually are using Kahn atm for IPX Emulation, rather than zone mainly because zone's update has screwed up their ZoneLAN servers hehe.

Gherkin alrdy said he pretty much wont do IPX Emulation in DC :(

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well also the problem would be... no dos with XP, no DooM with XP (that doesn't run like ass anyway) no IPX thing that works heh and also no IPX Emulation in General with XP :)

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Right, Windows XP doesn't even run Doom2; and anyone on Windows 2000/XP (or whatnot) who really wants to play it over IPX emulation can do any of the following (according to their preference, needs and/or resources):

* Set up an older machine with Windows 95/98.
* Set up another drive with Windows 95/98 (with a boot manager.)
* Just replace that 2000/XP thingy (or whatever) with 95/98.

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myk said:

Right, Windows XP doesn't even run Doom2; and anyone on Windows 2000/XP (or whatnot) who really wants to play it over IPX emulation can do any of the following (according to their preference, needs and/or resources):

* Set up an older machine with Windows 95/98.
* Set up another drive with Windows 95/98 (with a boot manager.)
* Just replace that 2000/XP thingy (or whatever) with 95/98.


I just picked the last option. :P

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I'd set up an old machine if I could. I don't know that dual boot is something I want to monkey with, and I like WinXP so I'm not getting rid of it.

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