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RoadRunner

WTF is ID playing at???

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Grrrrrr. WTF are ID playing at? They've been holding back on Doom 3 for months and months and now we hear they're losing staff like no body's business, including the one person who was guarenteed to make the experience of playing the game the scariest thing you've ever heard - Trent Reznor. What is Carmack playing at? Is he purposely trying to get rid of his staff so he can claim all the glory for Doom 3 or are they all just sick of the jumped up little pipsqueak?

Judging by the alpha I got nearly a year ago, by the time it's finally released it's not even going to be that good. I mean look at the attention to detail in HalfLife 2. Sure, it's not as dark or scary as Doom will be but it has large open areas, monsters the size of tower blocks, vehicles, AI, alien weapons, I could go on. Do you see Valve using models with polygon counts so high you can only display a half-dozen at once? No, but they still look good and put into a scary environment with some good level design it would be far superior to what Doom 3 will turn out to be.

Carmack himself said that the game will not have much depth as far as AI, puzzle solving, character interaction, etc goes, but that it is entirely based around having the best graphics in the world (look closely, those of you that have the alpha, the textures look blurry, the models have "corners" and it still runs like crap on my P4 3.0GHz with a Radeon 9700 and 1GB of RAM!)and because of this the enemy count will have to be fairly low.

Hang on a minute, isn't he missing the whole POINT of the game here? The entire experience for me was not about graphics but pure, unadulterated, PANDEMONIUM - walking into a dark room and firing your shotgun only to hear the piercing shriek of 50 or so imps followed by a torrent of fireballs as they bear down on you and any other unfortunate monsters to get in the way still make my heart rate double to this day.

No other game before or since has ever given me the feeling that I'm actually there, battling my way through the depths of hell with hordes of evil monsters all around me.

I was going to go and buy Doom 3 off the shelves the day it came out in respect to ID for listening to the gaming community and updating what is for me the best game ever, but now I think I'll just download it a week before it's released, spend a day or 2 completeing it and the DELETE it before it even comes out...

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Grrrrrr. WTF are ID playing at? They've been holding back on Doom 3 for months and months

Would you prefer to see them release a rush job?

they're losing staff like no body's business, including the one person who was guarenteed to make the experience of playing the game the scariest thing you've ever heard - Trent Reznor.

We don't know if that's true, it hasn't been confirmed by any official sources. And even if it is true, there are lots of talented sound designers out there. I wouldn't worry about the audio.

Is he purposely trying to get rid of his staff so he can claim all the glory for Doom 3 or are they all just sick of the jumped up little pipsqueak?

No one was fired. Paul left because he was sick of designing FPS games, Graeme I don't know, but probably for the same reason. Trent was a freelance, so I don't think you can count him.

I mean look at the attention to detail in HalfLife 2.

Like what? More crates?

monsters the size of tower blocks

How do you know there won't be that large monsters in Doom 3? id hasn't spoiled anything for us yet, and that's great. I want to be thrilled once the game is out.

vehicles

Why would there be vehicles on a Mars base?

alien weapons

How exactly does that make a better game?

Do you see Valve using models with polygon counts so high you can only display a half-dozen at once?

Half Life 2's models are more high-poly than Doom 3's.

No, but they still look good and put into a scary environment with some good level design it would be far superior to what Doom 3 will turn out to be.

Yes, in the end it's the level design that matters. But we don't know anything about the level design of either game yet, do we?

Carmack himself said that the game will not have much depth as far as AI

Do zombies need to be clever?

puzzle solving

id people HAVE said that there will be puzzle solving.

character interaction

id people HAVE said that there will be character interaction.

entirely based around having the best graphics in the world

Graphics don't make a game and the designers at id know that as well as you and I do.

(look closely, those of you that have the alpha, the textures look blurry, the models have "corners"

I'd take Doom 3's low-resolution bump/gloss/specular/-mapped textures that look like real materials instead of the high-res textures that look like textures which are used in every other game anyday, thank you.

Models having "corners" is a valid issue, but it hasn't bothered me so far. I'm not having any problem with it when seeing the models in motion.

and it still runs like crap on my P4 3.0GHz with a Radeon 9700 and 1GB of RAM!

It's an unoptimized alpha, duh. Your computer will run the final game at least twice as fast.

and because of this the enemy count will have to be fairly low.

It's a horror game, not a Serious Sam-style slaughterfest.

Hang on a minute, isn't he missing the whole POINT of the game here? The entire experience for me was not about graphics but pure, unadulterated, PANDEMONIUM - walking into a dark room and firing your shotgun only to hear the piercing shriek of 50 or so imps followed by a torrent of fireballs as they bear down on you and any other unfortunate monsters to get in the way still make my heart rate double to this day.

You'd only ever encounter about 5-10 enemies at once in Doom, at most. The Doom 3 engine is perfectly capable of handling that.

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Excuse me, I don't mean to sound rude, but you are way off. Most of what you said has no place in reality.

RoadRunner said:

Grrrrrr. WTF are ID playing at? They've been holding back on Doom 3 for months and months and now we hear they're losing staff like no body's business, including the one person who was guarenteed to make the experience of playing the game the scariest thing you've ever heard - Trent Reznor. What is Carmack playing at? Is he purposely trying to get rid of his staff so he can claim all the glory for Doom 3 or are they all just sick of the jumped up little pipsqueak?


1) They lost 1 staff member, Graeme Devine.
2) The thing about Trent is an unstated rumour.
3) Trent was never a staff member.
4) Why would Carmack try and get rid of the team just to get all the glory? He already gets all the glory, just look at your post.

Judging by the alpha I got nearly a year ago, by the time it's finally released it's not even going to be that good. I mean look at the attention to detail in HalfLife 2. Sure, it's not as dark or scary as Doom will be but it has large open areas, monsters the size of tower blocks, vehicles, AI, alien weapons, I could go on. Do you see Valve using models with polygon counts so high you can only display a half-dozen at once? No, but they still look good and put into a scary environment with some good level design it would be far superior to what Doom 3 will turn out to be.


Yes, they are paying a great deal of attention to the graphics in Half-Life 2. I'm not going to argue that the outside areas in HL2 are _STUNNING_...I am going to argue that the inside areas look pretty bad. Actually, I think HL2 has a higher polycount than Doom3 (correct me if I'm wrong, anybody). How do you know it will be "far superior to what Doom 3 will turn out to be"? Have you actually SEEN anything from Doom3 except the alpha? So far it beats any other game out there. Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 will be two very different games and comparing them the way you do is just not fair for any of them.

Carmack himself said that the game will not have much depth as far as AI, puzzle solving, character interaction, etc goes, but that it is entirely based around having the best graphics in the world (look closely, those of you that have the alpha, the textures look blurry, the models have "corners" and it still runs like crap on my P4 3.0GHz with a Radeon 9700 and 1GB of RAM!)and because of this the enemy count will have to be fairly low.


Yes. I have the alpha too, but I know it's moronic to judge the final game ofo an alpha. I have a P4 2.533 ghz with a Radeon 9700 pro and 1gb of dual channel pc3200 ram. The alpha runs acceptable on it...the final game will most likely run smoothly on it. The enemy count won't be high, but so what? Doom was never Serious Sam.

Hang on a minute, isn't he missing the whole POINT of the game here? The entire experience for me was not about graphics but pure, unadulterated, PANDEMONIUM - walking into a dark room and firing your shotgun only to hear the piercing shriek of 50 or so imps followed by a torrent of fireballs as they bear down on you and any other unfortunate monsters to get in the way still make my heart rate double to this day.


I'm sorry, but you know absolutely nothing about the game nor id software. John Carmack is the graphics programmer, that's why he is always talking about the graphics. Tim Willits is the game designer and HE is the one planning the actual game. Carmack != id software.

No other game before or since has ever given me the feeling that I'm actually there, battling my way through the depths of hell with hordes of evil monsters all around me.


Maybe that's because no other game uses that exact concept.

I was going to go and buy Doom 3 off the shelves the day it came out in respect to ID for listening to the gaming community and updating what is for me the best game ever, but now I think I'll just download it a week before it's released, spend a day or 2 completeing it and the DELETE it before it even comes out...


That just sounds so idiotic. You are going to download the game, play it through and deleting it before it even comes out. So you are dismissing the fact that it MAY be a good game? Please come back when you've read up on things.

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Look, even if Doom 3 doesn't come out until early 2005, it will still have had a shorter development time than many other games (including Half-Life 2). So stop being so darned impatient and let ID get on with their jobs.

BTW, give me one example of a room in Doom 1 or 2 with 50 or more enemies. You can't? That's because there are none. This is a sequel/remake of Doom, not Hell Revealed.

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*Lowers head, growls menacingly, eyes burn with a red haze.
*Barely manages to restrain himself from strangling Roadrunner.

RoadRunner said:
Grrrrrr. WTF are ID playing at? They've been holding back on Doom 3 for months and months and now we hear they're losing staff like no body's business, including the one person who was guarenteed to make the experience of playing the game the scariest thing you've ever heard - Trent Reznor. What is Carmack playing at? Is he purposely trying to get rid of his staff so he can claim all the glory for Doom 3 or are they all just sick of the jumped up little pipsqueak?

Doom 3 is the most advanced game iD has ever worked on - naturally it takes time. It's not a little damn platform game they're coding. It's a friggin' 3d game with halfway movie-quality graphics dammit.

And I see that you foolishly believe everything internet sources claim. Here's a fact of life: The only news that you can trust about iD software are the official statement they themselves make. All those news about iD employees leaving iD is most likely unfounded rumours that got blown up bigtime. The media loves that kind of shit, while I hate that.

Judging by the alpha I got nearly a year ago[...]

That was probably your biggest mistake right there. You can never ever judge a game from a leaked Alpha - why the fuck do you think iD got angry over it being leaked? "Oh gn0! The public will see what Doom 3 is all about - now we won't have any surprises left for them! 0h gn0!"

Nope, that's not it - they were pissed because then gullible bastards like you would start thinking that Doom 3 wouldn't be anything special. The Alpha is not the completed game and it still lacks most of what's in the game, but gullible people would of course be foolish enough to assume that the Alpha was a representation of the final product. Nope, an alpha isn't an official demo to represent the game or give gamers an idea of what the final game will be like.

, by the time it's finally released it's not even going to be that good. I mean look at the attention to detail in HalfLife 2. Sure, it's not as dark or scary as Doom will be but it has large open areas, monsters the size of tower blocks, vehicles, AI, alien weapons, I could go on.

Hahahaha, attention to detail in Hl2??? Nothing that Doom 3 won't have for the most part. I've said it before and now I'll say it again: Open areas are not necessary to make a good game - the core of a good fps is the corridor shooting. Also, who says D3 won't have monsters the size of tower blocks? Just because they haven't shown anything yet doesn't mean it won't be in the game. Lemme tell you something bucko: The cyberdemon is confirmed to be in Doom 3 and so far, the largest monster we've seen in D3 is the Hell Knight. Go check the classic Doom beastiary: The Hell Knight is a simple DWARF in comparison with the cybie. One would assume that the new cybie would be enormous, so wtf are you babbling about?
Oh and vehicles suck in fps games anyway as do alien weapons - they're nothing but gimmicks that serve to make stupid kids all excited imo. I just gave you my opinion on the subject just to show you that your opinion on good gameplay isn't paramount or the eternal truth, so stop saying that Doom 3 will be a shitty game, just because it doesn't have those small lame gimmicks that you obviously shit your pants with excitement over.

Carmack himself said that the game will not have much depth as far as AI, puzzle solving, character interaction, etc goes, but that it is entirely based around having the best graphics in the world (look closely, those of you that have the alpha, the textures look blurry, the models have "corners" and it still runs like crap on my P4 3.0GHz with a Radeon 9700 and 1GB of RAM!)and because of this the enemy count will have to be fairly low.

Screw AI - if the enemies are dangerous - and they will be, they'll be fine. There will be character interaction and puzzle solving - in fact I haven't a clue where you got that wacky idea from that there won't be.
And once again, you score high in "moron points" for judging Doom 3's graphics on the basis of the Alpha.

Hang on a minute, isn't he missing the whole POINT of the game here? The entire experience for me was not about graphics but pure, unadulterated, PANDEMONIUM - walking into a dark room and firing your shotgun only to hear the piercing shriek of 50 or so imps followed by a torrent of fireballs as they bear down on you and any other unfortunate monsters to get in the way still make my heart rate double to this day.

Nope, YOU are missing the point bud! The first Doom game, released in 1993 had lots of scary atmosphere - sure there was action, but there still is action in Doom 3 (albeit a bit differently). The "+50" monster count didn't arrive until Doom 2 and Doom 2 wasn't nearly as well-designed level-wise or atmosphere-wise as Doom 1.

I was going to go and buy Doom 3 off the shelves the day it came out in respect to ID for listening to the gaming community and updating what is for me the best game ever, but now I think I'll just download it a week before it's released, spend a day or 2 completeing it and the DELETE it before it even comes out...

Fine, just download a crappy, half-assed version of Doom 3 and I and several other considerably smarter people will ridicule the shit out of you, while we enjoy playing our purchased copy of the fully completed and perfectly optimized version of Doom 3, which turns out to be near-perfect gameplay-wise.

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Right, now that I've cooled down, I must humbly suggest to the Mods that they close this thread, lest there will be more replies like the big flame I made above (and it's not particularly a positive image that we give of ourselves, flaming someone just because he/she isn't smarter).
In my experience, a thread like this will only evolve into a big flame. Closing it is my best suggestion, because Roadrunner will still be able to see why his views are totally unjustified, but people won't be able to continue bashing his arse (nothing good comes out of picking on people when they do mistakes).
- admittedly, I did lose my temper there and resulted in a not-so-desirable post filled with insults.

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dsm said:

Right, now that I've cooled down, I must humbly suggest to the Mods that they close this thread

I agree. The original post sounds just like one big troll anyway.

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