Good Doom E1 and E2 levels

[DooMBoy]

Yeah, random downloads on the 3darchives have proved to be quite a waste of time, so I was wondering if you any of guys could recommend me any.

[Grazza]

I can't help much since I mostly play Doom2 pwads, but I can suggest you skim through Michael "Maikl" Novikov's textfiles for his DSDA demos. He normally doesn't say too much about the maps, but it is normally a very clear-cut assessment ("Great" or "Suck!", etc.). He is perhaps more forgiving than most if a map looks horrible but has fun gameplay.

[Reisal]

2002ADO and Fava Beans

[DooMBoy]

I have both and played both to death. I'm looking for some good 1 or 2 level pwads that aren't too short, and offer a good challenge on UV.

[RjY]

UAC Experiment
E1 style map that replaces E1M4. It has over 300 monsters and some 35 secret areas. UV max run takes me about half an hour

[NiGHTMARE]

Ghast

[DooMBoy]

Heh, NiGHTMARE, those weren't so bad for being from 1994. Playing through them I would have thought some time in 1996 or thereabouts. They are suprisingly well constructed for being 9 years old.

[ReX]

DooMBoy said:

...I was wondering if you any of guys could recommend me any.

I'm sure you've already played the maps from DooM Center's Episode 1 contest. But I'll just mention them here for the benefit of others that read this post but have not played them. With DooM Center being defunct, Bob Larkin is kindly hosting the maps on his site.

[DooMBoy]

Heh, I haven't played the results from the E1 contest in some time now, time to give it another go. Thanks for the link Rex.

[DooMBoy]

OK, I played it. What the heck was John "Johnny John" Romero thinking when he let some of those levels slide through (E1M1, E1M3, anyone?)?! I thought this was supposed to be E1. This is not to say that it's all bad - E1M4 and 9 are pretty good levels, and E1M8 is OK, but quite frankly, some of those levels in the final wad flat-out suck.
My verdict: Pretty meh. I give it 5.5/10.

[sargebaldy]

yeah, i didn't think any of those maps were great E1 style. fredrik's was the best although it had flaws as well. really, there aren't any maps available that are flawless Ep1 style and remain original at the same time. attempts generally end up feeling like ripoffs of Ep1 levels or as good maps with a general representation of E1's theme but not altogether E1's feel.

the best E2 map i know of is E2M4 of Torn's upcoming megawad Flashback. it's an awesome map too, same detail as the original but overall a better map.

[DooMBoy]

If you're going to take the time to do an E1 level, use E1 textures and flats (and enemies and weapons) only, I always say, and keep the torches and Satanic stuff out until E1M8. Well ok, a candlelabra here and a candle there, but overall, keep the Gothic stuff to a minimum. Remember, this is supposed to be a tech base level you're doing, emphasis on tech base. E1M3 might've had the potential to be a pretty good map out of what is decidely a pretty mixed bag, but of course, the author of that map had a revelation and decided, for whatever reason, to included a large amount of GSTONE and some other E2/3/4 things in. Ugh.

[sargebaldy]

yeah and there's a lot of other things people forget. such as:

• use flat20 for door tops and window floor/ceilings whenever that is possible to align correctly.
  
• have quite a lot of monsters but also make sure to have breather areas. e.g. crowd some rooms and leave others empty/near empty.
  
• avoid using skies in non-secret areas. most of the sky areas in ep1 are in secret areas/maps.
  
• use good light transition, rather than relying on darkness or lightness all the time. mix it up, a lot.
  
• don't overdetail. it really butchers the style. instead make the map look good by using lots of turns and shapely edges.
  
• do NOT ripoff an E1 room to the point it's recognizably similar. it just looks cheap. if id had made a 10th E1Mx map, i somehow doubt it would contain a room remarkably similar to something in one of the original maps.
  
• use heights of 72 and 88 near bigdoor graphics. ep1 never or very rarely used full height bigdoor graphics.
  
• do NOT map linearly.

there's more to it than that, but i can't even think of an E1 style pwad that passes everything on that list.

[Torn]

sargebaldy said:

the best E2 map i know of is E2M4 of Torn's upcoming megawad Flashback. it's an awesome map too, same detail as the original but overall a better map.

I am gonna do the episode1 for that megawad, so thanks for these lines you wrote, it will help me. Btw, It is Espi and my megawad.
Espi's maps rules, I hope I will be able to make a true episode1, but it is hard to be original. :/
The website is outdated very much, gonna work on that in the weekend sometime, so we can get a new page (heh, well a real page I guess it mean). :)
Btw, does anyone know what ep1 map romero like most?

[DooMBoy]

I recall John Romero calling E1M3 "his baby".

[Torn]

DooMBoy said:

I recall John Romero calling E1M3 "his baby".

It is also a kinda complex level (I guess at least it was in 93) with tons of secrets to find. My fav ep1 level (e1m6) is the first level with all 3keys, so I guess it is special too. :)

[DooMBoy]

Torn said:

It is also a kinda complex level (I guess at least it was in 93) with tons of secrets to find. My fav ep1 level (e1m6) is the first level with all 3keys, so I guess it is special too. :)

Yeah, that secret level exit took me a few days to figure out as I recall. The part where you grab the blue key and the lights go out scared the crap outta me the first couple times, as well :)
As for E1M6, it's a pretty good level, and it's also nice that you can totally bypass the maze later on in the level if you know what to do. :P

[Grimm]

I thought Chris Hansen's CH1Retro Ep ( or whatever the title was) was excellent through and through, except for E1M8. I didn't agree with the music changes either. :(

[DooMBoy]

I believe you're referring to RetroEps, which I agree is a very well done E1 Episode. You're right about E1M8 though, coulda used just a bit more work.

[Chris Hansen]

Yeah, sorry about that last level... I'll go shoot myself for having made such a generally crappy episode replacement... what was I thinking! :(

And it's name btw. is "CH Retro Episode" (retroeps.wad)...

[Torn]

c-cooper said:

Yeah, sorry about that last level... I'll go shoot myself for having made such a generally crappy episode replacement... what was I thinking! :(

And it's name btw. is "CH Retro Episode" (retroeps.wad)...

No, it is great, it will be hard for me to make something similiar for episode1 of flashback. But I will try. The only thing I really dislike is the episode2 textures you used.

Will you make a ch retro episode 2 sometime? I'd like to see that :P

[Chris Hansen]

Thank you very much Torn!

But, what textures did I use again!? Episode 2 textures!? Hmmm, I don't think there are any of those in the episode, but in the SP level I made of the same name, as a standalone map, there was.

And no, I don't think I'll ever create an CH Retro Episode 2. I tried, but I stopped after two levels, which were released under the name "Rip it, Tear it, Smash it!".

[DooMBoy]

Heh I played Rip it Tear it Smash it the other day, it wasn't so bad. I think you should do another E1 replacer :)

[Chris Hansen]

Not enough time, DoomBoy, not enough time!! Arghhhh.....!