Question about Special sectors..

[Ness]

Ok, so.. I was looking at Map 7 on Doom2 and I was wondering how they made it so that when you're done killing all the Mancubuses, a floor lowers down enabling you to attack the Archtrenatrons.

I've looked through the 16 special things you can do on a sector, but I dont see that one.. any ideas?

[sargebaldy]

on map07 of doom2, killing all mancubi in a level lowers any sector with the tag 666, and killing all arachnotrons raises steps starting at any sector with tag 667. at least i think that's right. it's not a sector effect like a light or anything, look around for the tag box.

[Ness]

Thank you!

Unfortunetly that doesn't work in waded but in Doom Builder it works! :D

[Ichor]

However, this effect will only work in map 7.

[Reisal]

That would be cool if a source port would make tag 666 or 667 usable on ANY map.

[Amaster]

Mr. Chris said:

That would be cool if a source port would make tag 666 or 667 usable on ANY map.

Zdoom

[Ichor]

Well, ZDoom uses scripts with make similar effects, and it can be used for any enemies and work for any map. Also, I've heard that Commander Keen on map 31 which uses the same kind of sector tag effect can work on any map.

[Graf Zahl]

ZDoom can use all 666/667 tags from Doom and Heretic on any map but with scripting you can do a lot more stuff of course.

The 666 tag for Commander Keen works indeed on all maps, even in the original EXE. With Dehacked you can even assign the Keen Death code pointer to any monster you want. That will work with the original Exe and almost all source ports, except Legacy. (not quite surprising that Legacy removes features of the original...)

[boris]

Graf Zahl said:

That will work with the original Exe and almost all source ports, except Legacy. (not quite surprising that Legacy removes features of the original...)

They even removed the voodoo doll "bug", which is really retarded (the removing I mean :P).

[Graf Zahl]

boris said:

They even removed the voodoo doll "bug", which is really retarded (the removing I mean :P).

It's a bug, alright. But this one has been abused so heavily (even in the official Final Doom WADs!) that removing it must have been the most stupid decision anyone working on a Doom source port has ever done. The sad thing is that absolutely nothing was gained by doing so...

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Maybe we should start a petition to get it put back in....oh wait, we can't. (it's N******)

[sargebaldy]

i'm still on newdoom, even though i only registered there to talk about doom builder (since dw didn't seem to care until 3d mode came out).

[The Flange Peddler]

It would make sense for those Legacy folk to put voodoo dolls in, considering quite a few levels need them...

... But it's not like Zdoom hasn;t taken certain features out that were in the original .exe's. The most annoying of all being that you can't select a weapon you don't have any ammo for

[sargebaldy]

The Flange Peddler said:

... But it's not like Zdoom hasn;t taken certain features out that were in the original .exe's. The most annoying of all being that you can't select a weapon you don't have any ammo for

yeah i hate that too. but the voodoo doll thing is worse, since many many maps are no longer completely compatible. then again, in both zdoom and legacy there isn't a little vanilla doom feature called demo support, which is why i prefer eternity to both.

[cyber-menace]

Now as for the enemy specials... dtca's 16th map shows exactly what you can do when you think advanced scripting. I used imps, chaingunners, hell knights, and cyber-demons to work in the same fashion as map07 except I made them execute a script instead of lowering floors, etc. This requires some advanced scripting, but there is an alternative method. The MAPINFO Lump has some easy to use features to make it work. All you need to do is add "map07special" without quotes to any map on your mapinfo lump. Just use Notepad or something to make the lump. You can add it to your wad via Deepsea, XWE, or any other Lump Editing program. They also have other enemies with different functions from Doom 1 that you can use too. For example,

baronspecial 
After every Baron of Hell on this level has died, a special action will be triggered.

cyberdemonspecial 
After every Cyber Demon on this level has died, a special action will be triggered.

spidermastermindspecial 
After every Spider Mastermind on this level has died, a special action will be triggered.

Note: Using the Mapinfo lump will make your map a Zdoom only map so this could prefent any further ideas with things like Doom Legacy and other source ports. That should help you out. If you have any further questions just click on the link I attached to MAPINFO.

[Graf Zahl]

sargebaldy said:

then again, in both zdoom and legacy there isn't a little vanilla doom feature called demo support, which is why i prefer eternity to both.

Last time I checked ZDoom had demo playback, it just isn't compatible with vanilla demos. (and can't, due to the enhanced features of the engine!) I have PrBoom for playing those but that doesn't force me to use an inferior port to actually *play* Doom. Keeping demo playback is probably the biggest obstacle when you try to add cool features and since there are a few ports that specialize in it (PrBoom doesn't seem to do anything else!) it's not worth keeping normally.

[sargebaldy]

yeah but i mean playback with vanilla doom demos of course. since anything else is meaningless in terms of compatibility. randy's currently on the path to butchering the rendering engine. to me, zdoom is basically a new engine which happens to rely on doom resources. not that i think it's bad, i just don't consider it doom anymore.

[Graf Zahl]

sargebaldy said:

randy's currently on the path to butchering the rendering engine. to me, zdoom is basically a new engine which happens to rely on doom resources. not that i think it's bad, i just don't consider it doom anymore.

So what. It's just the renderer. With that reasoning you can also dismiss all OpenGL ports because their renderer doesn't have anything in common with Doom anymore. I certainly prefer slopes and the new flexibility with using textures over purity in that regard.

The important things about the game (enemy logic, game physics) hasn't been changed that dramatically in ZDoom and when it has it was mostly bug fixes and has been compatibility optioned in most cases.

[sargebaldy]

oh, i like zdoom. as a new engine. slopes are fun to play around with doom textures just because it's new. but i'd much rather mess around with eternity because it's a true port in the regard it's 99.9% compatible with doom.