What do you think makes an E1-style map?

[5hfifty]

So we can get an idea of what everyone thinks an E1 map needs from observations of exsisting E1 maps and stuff.

Some of the things I think they need is:

- Make most of accessible outside areas secrets, don't make alot of the level outside.
- Windows or otherwise where you can see later parts of the level or secrets. This always makes the level more intersting to me.
- Alot of contrast in light levels and flickering lights add to the atmosphere.
- Make the start in a room or a place where there are no monsters that can see you untill you move from the area.
- Lots of height variation.

Of course no one can really mimic the E1 style fully without editing an exsisting level or adding bits from them. Even then it's not the same.

[sargebaldy]

here's what i came up with in an earlier thread, plus a few more i just came up with:

• use flat20 for door tops and window floor/ceilings whenever that is possible to align correctly.
  
• have quite a lot of monsters but also make sure to have breather areas. e.g. crowd some rooms and leave others empty/near empty.
  
• avoid using skies in non-secret areas. most of the sky areas in ep1 are in secret areas/maps.
  
• use good light transition, rather than relying on darkness or lightness all the time. mix it up, a lot.
  
• don't overdetail. it really butchers the style. instead make the map look good by using lots of turns and shapely edges.
  
• do NOT ripoff an E1 room to the point it's recognizably similar. it just looks cheap. if id had made a 10th E1Mx map, i somehow doubt it would contain a room remarkably similar to something in one of the original maps.
  
• use heights of 72 and 88 near bigdoor graphics. ep1 never or very rarely used full height bigdoor graphics.
  
• do NOT map linearly.
  
• use lifts. every E1 map had a few.
  
• use monster beam-ins never or VERY RARELY. E1 usually just opens doors for traps.
  
• don't use bigdoor1 a lot. it might look E1 but it was only used twice there.
  
• make it epic and as memorable as possible
  
• make everything weave together nice and try to make your level compact, leaving little wasted space inside the borders of your map
  
• brown1 is a good choice for outdoor areas
  

all right, i'll stop there and leave a few for everyone else =P

[Ichor]

As for the things, use only those things found in the first episode (no invunerability or berserk, and no Cacodemons, etc.). The Barons of Hell should of course only be used in E1M8, and not in any of the other episode 1 maps.

[Fredrik]

In addition to what's been said already (especially be sargebaldy):

• NON-ORTHOGONAL, LARGE-SCALE ARCHITECTURE DAMNIT (This is what almost everybody does wrong. 128x128 square rooms can burn in hell)
  
• Keep those smooth lights away (except in E1M9)
  
• Same goes for detail. Keep detail as low as is possible. Another common mistake that people do.
  
• BARRELS!
  
• Don't overuse the STAR* textures. They weren't used as much as some people believe, the BROWN* textures were used a lot more.
  
• NUKAGE PITS!
  
• The blue carpet is NOT a good floor texture, except for extremely rare cases.
  
• Add decorative corpses
  

[Torn]

Some other rules, I don't think is that importan, but I am using them for our flashback episode1 anyway. There are just general memories from episode1, but if you are gonna make it classic, I guess some of these should get in your own episode.

Taken from Chris hansen's site:

...that Romero almost always used the heights 144 and 72 when using the numerous Startan, Starg & Stargr textures!?

...that the Demon and Spectre appears for the first time in E1M3!?

...that two Pool's of Blood marks the entries to the secret rooms containing a Soulsphere and Rocket launcher in E1M3!?

...that every level except E1M8/E1M9 have the green Exit-door at the exit-rooms!?

...that despite the general belief of level-designers, the crate textures are not Eps. 1 textures!

...that E1M6 is the first level to use all three keys!

...that from E1M5 and up, there's no longer any pools of blood, green dead guys or other corpses to be found lying around!

!

[Espi]

Blue carpet is win.

[Carnevil]

5hfifty said:

Of course no one can really mimic the E1 style fully without editing an exsisting level or adding bits from them. Even then it's not the same.

So add "- Is an original doom.wad E1 map" to your list of requirements :P

[Julian]

Carnevil said:

So add "- Is an original doom.wad E1 map" to your list of requirements :P

My thought, exactly. The list of requirements will soon get to a point even Romero himself couldn't make a new level without breaking the rules.

[Fredrik]

I've never played a level that felt entirely like an E1 map, but I've played several with isolated parts that felt just right. One of them is my contest map, I had a few rooms in there that were really good (most of the map sucked though :P).

So it probably wouldn't be impossible to make an all E1-like map or even episode. Without cloning.

[The Flange Peddler]

I guess general lack of texture alignment is one property of the classic doom style that people these days are willing to ignore. Although alignment generally in Episode 1 wasn't too bad, probably largely due to the liberal sprinking of support2's inbetween height transitions and texture transitions.

[ReX]

The Flange Peddler said:

Although alignment generally in Episode 1 wasn't too bad, probably largely due to the liberal sprinking of support2's inbetween height transitions and texture transitions.

Despite the use of SUPPORT2 textures, the maps are liberally sprinked with atrocious (and in many instances non-existent) alignment. If someone uploaded an E1-style map today with that kind of texture alignment it would be mercilessly criticized. So, while bad texture alignment may be a hallmark of E1 maps, I don't believe that modern E1-style maps should emulate this feature (which appears to be in keeping with your own observation regarding what mappers nowadays are doing).

[Fredrik]

ReX said:

If someone uploaded an E1-style map today with that kind of texture alignment it would be mercilessly criticized.

Not if the textures were used with as much taste as they are in E1.

[ReX]

Fredrik said:

Not if the textures were used with as much taste as they are in E1.

Do I detect a twinge of nostalgia, maybe? ;)

[Fredrik]

ReX said:

Do I detect a twinge of nostalgia, maybe? ;)

Not one that matters in this case :P The E1 design is universally excellent, despite of minor technical flaws.

[myk]

I don't see what's wrong with a map that dilligently and deliberatrely follows Knee Deep in the Dead's texture placement and alignment. On the contrary, if done well it'd have the merit of being a non-standard way of doing textures, as opposed to the usual, where designers attempt simply to align "properly" and texture "realistically."

It's a question of details, like those listed on this thread... and yeah, maybe out of context someone not knowing about the nuances of Episode 1 might think the map is simply messy, while a more knowledgable player or designer would note the care the designer took in making a map using a genuine E1 style.

[ReX]

myk said:

...the care the designer took in making a map using a genuine E1 style.

Myk, I'm sure you know as well the next guy that deliberately (or even inadvertently) omitting the task of texture alignment does not require any effort (i.e., care). Indeed, I wonder if Romero himself chose to make maps without aligned textures (or if he just didn't bother with the chore).

However, I see the point you are trying to make, i.e., misaligned textures somehow contribute to the character of the original E1 maps. While I might agree with you there, I regard misaligned textures as a blemish, regardless of how tastefully the textures have been used (Re: Fredrik's comment). As such, I believe that the E1 maps would benefit visually, however marginally, if the textures were properly aligned.

Others will certainly disagree, and I'm not stating they're wrong in harboring those opinions. I'm merely stating my preference.

[Torn]

One other thing people tend to use is episode2/3 textures, which kinda break the feeling of a episode1 map(like the crate textures, which don't belong in a episode1 map).

[Fredrik]

I do agree that the maps would look better if all textures were aligned. Most of the texture misalignments in there aren't that severe though. There are very few cases of the (IMHO) worst kind of misalignment - textures around windows not being unpegged.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Personally, all I think a Phobos map needs is authentic texturing and scenery - no gothic stuff!

Scattering barrels, health bonuses and armour bonuses all over the place is also a plus. (so that's why I do that in my Phobos maps)

[Linguica]

I never really thought about how E1 is so predominantly indoors. Oftentimes in the levels you will SEE outdoor areas, but you can rarely get to them, unless you find a secret. Even the levels that do have "outdoor" areas as non-secrets, they're usually just open-air rooms without any feeling of being exposed to the "outside." That makes the end of E1M8 so surprising -- suddenly after you kill the barons you have the walls come down and this giant open outdoors area which you've never seen before in the episode.

[Torn]

5hfifty said:

- Make the start in a room or a place where there are no monsters that can see you untill you move from the area.

Romero kinda fixed that by let the player start in a alone room in some of maps (eg: e1m3, e1m4 of couse too but it was tom hall's, e1m7). In these maps there is also a shitload of monsters outside the starting room.

[sargebaldy]

Linguica said:

That makes the end of E1M8 so surprising -- suddenly after you kill the barons you have the walls come down and this giant open outdoors area which you've never seen before in the episode.

E1M9 had large outdoor areas as well, but maybe that's why that map doesn't really fit into E1 very well. of course that still kinda fits into the rule because the map itself is a secret.

[Gokuma]

E1M9's outdoor areas aren't as large though and it's more like the interior of a base just with open ceilings. It feels more like you're outside in the large secret area of E1M2 than in E1M9.

[myk]

ReX said:
Myk, I'm sure you know as well the next guy that deliberately (or even inadvertently) omitting the task of texture alignment does not require any effort (i.e., care). Indeed, I wonder if Romero himself chose to make maps without aligned textures (or if he just didn't bother with the chore).

I'm talking about deliberately imitating the errors he made; it doesn't matter if they were conscious: As in looking at the misaligments, limitations and particular mistakes that do appear in the maps and recreating them in the new E1-style map, without exactly copying them in general (i.e., treating texture alignment in the same way as architectual design and thing placement... it's obviously part of the original design.) And, naturally, it would take work... certainly more intellectually creative work than simply mechanically making all the textures look tidy.

[DooMBoy]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

Personally, all I think a Phobos map needs is authentic texturing and scenery - no gothic stuff!

Well, I guess it's a matter of taste, but a few candles, and/or a candlelabra, to show the presence of demons, is a must have IMO.
Also be sure to sure to use plenty of those short lamps and scatter around a few dead soldiers for old times sake.

[5hfifty]

Just a few more I thought up.

- Don't use light flats(TLITE*, FLAT17, FLAT2, etc.) very often. You'll notice that Doom hardly used lights on the cieling, except for detailing things like above doors, in nukeage pits, or in computer areas. Use lamps for light instead.

- Use former humans and sargeants more often than imps, but also mix them up.

- Keep the big fights in hallways, or large rooms, where you should scatter the monsters.

- Make some big secrets - like a Soulsphere, visible before you get to it so you know to look for the secret.

EDIT: Thanks Baldy. :P

[sargebaldy]

hm, that brings me to another one... aren't all the soulspheres/blur spheres/lite amps in E1 in secrets?

oh, and radiation suits were a common thing in E1.

[Ichor]

I think backpacks are too.

[sargebaldy]

oh yeah, i guess them too. i was almost tempted to say they did that with the megaarmor too, but i think there's probably an exception or two. oh, and now that i think about it, there's an open blur sphere on E1M8. oh well.

5hfifty said:

- Make sure that any big secret - like a Soulsphere, you can see before you get to it so you know to look for the secret.

not always, necessarily. there is a few you don't see ahead of time in E1, like the blur sphere on E1M5, the megaarmor on E1M5, the soulsphere on E1M8, etc.