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Xaser

Instant lowering special

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I know that there is a certain special that when used properly, makes a floor instantly lower when you press a switch. The problem is, I don't know which special to use. I'm not looking for any port-specific things, just vanilla stuff. Any help?

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Check the Doomworld Editing Tutorials (follow Classic links), and see how the 3D bridges are done. In a nutshell: you trigger a floor to go UP to the lowest adjacent ceiling, but this lowest adjacent ceiling is actually below the current floor level. Result: you instantly lower the floor to his lowest adjacent ceiling height.

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Like Mordeth said, it's kind of backwards. You can do it both ways:

If you use a "lower floor to highest adjacent floor," type, and the highest adjacent is actually above the floor that's being moved, it'll instantly raise to that height. In conjunction with dummy sectors, it's pretty useful.

The same, if you use a "raise floor to lowest adjacent ceiling," and the lowest ceiling is actually below the floor, it'll instantly lower. Again, this is best with a dummy sector.

In conclusion, dummy sectors are the best thing about vanilla editing.

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sargebaldy said:

yeah, between dummy sectors and voodoo dolls, the only real reason i can think of to map for boom is to avoid VPOs.


how about for real non-hom deep water, colormaps, easier manipulation of voodoo dolls (on convayers), generalized linedef types, silent teleporters, elevators, removed visible sidedef limit, allowing for floating multi-patch mid textures without tutti fruit, fixed medusa, sector friction, wind and currents, animdefs lump, translucency in textures, the ability to include a dehacked patch without the need to patch the exe, vastly cleaned up and less buggy code, the ability to use all six keys distinctly instead of just three, the ability to include new sprites without having to run the map through deutex, the ability to use midis rather than converting to the lesser mus format, higher blockmap limit etc etc

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Isle said:

doom2.exe < ports

(Nostalgia = doom2.exe) > ports. :)

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Cyb said:

how about for real non-hom deep water

nami has that in 'grind3' (although you can't go under, but the idea of the doom marine walking around underwater is retarded anyway).


easier manipulation of voodoo dolls (on convayers)

you can still manage the same effect on vanilla, not worth making a map boom-only on something you don't have to.


generalized linedef types

most of which you can duplicate with dummy sectors.


elevators

not sure what you mean by this.


allowing for floating multi-patch mid textures without tutti fruit

didn't know about that one, but one can always just make a single patch version of that texture.


fixed medusa

a good quality level shouldn't have medusa anyway.


silent teleporters, sector friction, wind and currents, animdefs lump, translucency in textures, the ability to use all six keys distinctly instead of just three, the ability to use midis rather than converting to the lesser mus format

valid, but i wouldn't make a map require a boom-compatible port just for those things.


colormaps

i thought doom.exe could handle these O_o


removed visible sidedef limit

sargebaldy said:

the only real reason i can think of to map for boom is to avoid VPOs.


higher blockmap limit

you got me on that one. i meant to say for eliminating VPOs and size restrictions.

the ability to include new sprites without having to run the map through deutex, the ability to include a dehacked patch without the need to patch the exe, vastly cleaned up and less buggy code

how are those reasons to map for boom? that's just a reason for people to play in boom.

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Elevators are when the floor AND ceiling move the same distance.

And Grind2 had Medusa I think. =P

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Nanami said:

Elevators are when the floor AND ceiling move the same distance.

couldn't you manage that with my multiple switch trick then?

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sargebaldy said:

couldn't you manage that with my multiple switch trick then?

No because elevators can be moved up and down as many times as you like, and your trick (as well as causing damage to the player) only works once. Not only that but I don't think more than one thing can happen to a sector at a time under normal conditions.

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you can't manipulate voodoo dolls in dummy sectors in doom2.exe without hurting the player or giving him invuln first which is dumb, it works much better with boom. one of the first convayer belt effects I made for boom was in artica1.wad where you shoot a crate and it slides into place allowing you to hit a switch that was previously inacessable. not possible with doom2.exe without causing visible damage, plus it could be reset and done again and again as many times as needed

plus all the new editing features ARE reasons to map for boom because doom2.exe doesn't have any of those features and they allow the editor more freedom and control over levels

by colormaps I meant underwater shading of sectors etc to be all one color. not accurate in terms of how underwater really looks, but then doom hardly looks like real life and they make you feel more like you're underwater. doom2.exe can't do that. furthermore your 'the doomguy underwater is stupid' is a cop-out and a horrible reason because, as I've been saying, it's something not possible in doom2.exe and allows the editor more freedom and possibilities. furthermore doom2.exe deep water causes hom if viewed from certain places (usually if you die in it), boom deep water does not. better.

including new sprites and flats in a wad is a reason to edit for boom, what if I want to replace a tree or only one monster, then the player won't have to run some stupid batch file and append the wad and all that crap. easier for the user, more open-ended for the editor.

elevators are not possible in doom2.exe, the engine doesn't allow a sector's ceiling and floor to move at the same time.

also visible sidedef limit != vpo, in doom2.exe if you had too many sidedefs in view it caused hom for some of them (the limit was 256 or 512, I forget) not an engine crash.

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Cyb said:

you can't manipulate voodoo dolls in dummy sectors in doom2.exe without hurting the player or giving him invuln first which is dumb

you can make it deal only 1 point of damage, and have that restored by a health potion fairly inconspicuously.


possible with doom2.exe without causing visible damage, plus it could be reset and done again and again as many times as needed

my effect could (in mad insane theory i won't even discuss here) be made reusable as well, although admittedly it is a ridiculously difficult idea. but i personally would rather do something that's challenging to map rather than just cheat and use a source port to skip over it.


elevators are not possible in doom2.exe, the engine doesn't allow a sector's ceiling and floor to move at the same time.

they're also useless and generally don't make sense. since you can't use ror the side you come out of is usually the opposite of the way you come in, and that just looks lame.


also visible sidedef limit != vpo, in doom2.exe if you had too many sidedefs in view it caused hom for some of them (the limit was 256 or 512, I forget) not an engine crash.

well, ok. that is important as well.

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cheating? rofl whatever dude

and uh, how is it boom elevators don't make sense (another cop-out on your part) but lifts do? righto.

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half the reason i map for doom is because it's challenging to do much with very little. if people can just code in whatever you want it's hardly a challenge anymore.

a lift at least acts like a lift. it just raises you up. how many elevators have you ever heard of where the door is on the opposite side of where you come in?

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Yeah I've seen elevators where you get off at multiple directions.

But Boom elevators are usually used more like lifts like in construction zones or mines, where a normal lift would probably look a lot better. I haven't seen many well-used Boom elevators.

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Anyone who claims vanilla Doom is better for modding does not know what he's talking about. 'Nuff said.

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better is relative. vanilla doom editing is just more of a challenge, which i like much better. i wouldn't use boom for something if it's possible to accomplish it without it.

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i don't see how it's possibly trolling to say i personally prefer editing vanilla to editing boom because i find it more challenging. coming up with a way to, for example, make a reusable vanilla switch with multiple effects, challenges my mind more than simply placing a voodoo doll on a simple conveyor belt. obviously boom is more powerful, but more power will often mean less creativity.

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Ah and I'm taking the bait, too :)

make a reusable vanilla switch with multiple effects, challenges my mind more than simply placing a voodoo doll on a simple conveyor belt.


I'm actually tempted to use the vanilla method here, because a doll/conveyor combination takes more time to setup and doesn't allow for quick successive triggers by the player.

Anyway, your challenge as a level designer does not come from doing vanilla tricks the Boom way. The Boom features were not meant to just 'replace' old tricks, or doing them the easy way... you're missing out on a lot of neat stuff if you do. Those new editing features allow for much, MUCH more creativity on your part, enabling you to come up with stuff you couldn't hope to do with the vanilla engine. And THAT is the challenge here.

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Mordeth said:

I'm actually tempted to use the vanilla method here, because a doll/conveyor combination takes more time to setup and doesn't allow for quick successive triggers by the player.

there's a vanilla trick for that? O_o i've managed a vanilla multi-switch but it's far trickier to set up than a conveyor. my effect isn't yet unlimitedly repeatable either (although today i found out how to make a vanilla switch that could do something different each time you hit it, as many times as you want).

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sargebaldy said:

couldn't you manage that with my multiple switch trick then?


Nope you can make an elevator that will descend (fenlift.wad), but it's not repeatable as there are no floors+ceilings that raise at the same speed (it looks dumb).

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