Go 2 It

[R_Seriouz]

what's up with this level on Plutonia?
It's a good level to play with God mode, but without god mode, it's impossible to beat.

Why did they put this level in there?

[fraggle]

Maybe its impossible for YOU!

Well, and me too.

[R_Seriouz]

lol

i'm not that noobish


EDIT: Only one spider mastermind?
how crappy!

[Python_Junkie]

R_Seriouz said:

lol

i'm not that noobish


EDIT: Only one spider mastermind?
how crappy!

Nice try...

/me sprays noob repellant on himself

[Shaviro]

fraggle said:

Maybe its impossible for YOU!

Well, and me too.

Count me in.

[Torn]

uhm, learn your way around the map, and let the monsters fight for themself. As seen in Dario's demo of punisher.wad (another version of "Go 2 it", heh dunno if the name is spelled right).

[Kaiser]

Go2it is something a newbie mapper would design. Its amazing it made its way into Plutonia.

But that map did have its moments.

[Nanami]

I've beaten it, it just takes time. It took about 5000 tries to get a demo, and of those 5000 only about 4 were successful, and only this one was any good.

Here's a Legacy max (102%, 100%, 100%) demo I did in Ultra Violence (12 minutes long):

http://nami.mancubus.net/Go2It.lmp

Maybe you'll develop some strategies for it. Noticably, I completely avoided one of the rooms because the archies more than make up for the 100% kills.

EDIT: It's Legacy 1.40a but it runs in that 1.41rc1 or whatever.

EDIT2: Wow, I recorded this before I started using mlook. This is old...

[DooMBoy]

It is indeed possible to beat this map, you just need a buttload of patience, and some skills as well, heh :P

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Deathman said:

Go2it is something a newbie mapper would design. Its amazing it made its way into Plutonia.

Not really, as the gameplay is not totally random like a newbie map would be. It was designed to be the ultimate challenge (in tactics as well as skill) at the time, and certainly didn't disappoint. Okay, the detail isn't as good as the other maps but who needs lots of detail when you've got a challenge like that on your hands?
Personally I think it's a masterpiece.

R_Seriouz said:

what's up with this level on Plutonia?
It's a good level to play with God mode, but without god mode, it's impossible to beat.

Why did they put this level in there?

Probably to test you even more, as you can no doubt cope with the already-challenging first half of the game (if you can do that you're certainly in with a chance of beating it). Maps like this require tactical ability as well as skill, as you need to manage your health and ammo well (eg. taking megaspheres at a certain time, attacking certain rooms early on to free up resources, picking the right area for a heavy fight etc.) as well as being quick and accurate with shots and movement. You'd also have to be familiar with the map as well, to help with the tactics. (knowing where the vital stuff is etc.)

[Zell]

man im still only on map07 of plutonia....
/starts playing
"GOD DAMN IT!"
/breaks mouse

[Nanami]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

You'd also have to be familiar with the map as well, to help with the tactics. (knowing where the vital stuff is etc.)

That's very important in that map. To get you off to a good start:

1) Learn where all the megaspheres are. Also take a small note on where the medikits are.

2) Learn where to use what weapon. The Rocket Launcher is good to use in most of the level because there's so much ammo for it. At the part where the Pain Elementals are released, for gods sake, use the BFG!

3) Don't be afraid to use the BFG. The level is packed with cell ammo, and by the time you get the outside opened up fully, you'll have so much cell ammo you won't be able to use it all.

4) Learn what rooms are useful. The room with the demons and the arch-viles isn't very important to visit, nor is the "exit" with the arch-viles and the rockets, unless you want/need more rockets.

5) Practice. It took me probably a thousand tries to beat it, so don't get frustrated too easily. =)

[Grazza]

I think that for Plutonia generally, good strafing ability is extremely important. When Final Doom first came out, I was a non-strafing keyboarder (ugh!). I found Evilution OK, but got bogged down at an early stage of Plutonia. When I replayed them some years later (by then with better movement skills) I found Plutonia relatively (and surprisingly) straightforward.

Nanami: The standard meaning of UV Max nowadays is "finishing the level as fast as possible, in Ultra Violence, killing every monster at least once, except lost souls, and with 100% secrets." (from compet-n). So it's not really Max if you leave those archies alive. (I say "nowadays" because I think that in the early days, Max did mean 100% x3, with the possibility of leaving some monsters alive.)

[pritch]

I've only ever beaten this map once on UV and I'm never playing it again. It's part of the reason I still haven't finished Plutonia. It took me about a zillion goes to nail down a staged strategy. And believe me you have to get your timing right on this one, in more ways than one.

[Ultraviolet]

I <3 that level.

[DOOM Anomaly]

This level is great, though not impossible, I myself easily beat it also, on single player UV and Multiplayer UV, I recored the single player but I can't recall where it is, for I lost it when my computer got fried. But its a funsies level, I love that open part. :D

[Captain Red]

Jeez, it’s not that hard. Just takes a little bit of persistence.

[Dunbar]

I tried beating it one billion times, and I still keep getting splattered. Then again, I can't play through most of plutonia without being reduced to a red smear on the wall.

I don't know how you people do it.

[Ultraviolet]

Dunbar said:

I don't know how you people do it.

Try dodging the rockets and fireballs and such. :P

You have to consider things like flanking... use blind corners and bottlenecks as much to your advantage as you can. Take on as few monsters at a time as possible -- by that I mean not just firing on few at a time, but having fewer firing on you. Let the ones that can see you follow you to another room before you wake the others up by firing. Always keep what's behind you clear so you can fall back to a favorable position. Fire from partial cover when possible. Et cetera.

[Draconio]

I beat it not too long ago. Using a ton of save/reloads.

[Torn]

Draconio said:

I beat it not too long ago. Using a ton of save/reloads.

ew, save games... heh.

Okay using save games is okay, but only once each map (eg: the start) so you don't have to start from blank, if you die.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Dunbar said:

I don't know how you people do it.

[hint]Chainguns and rockets are excellent for getting rid of those long-range chaingunners[/hint]

[hint]Monsters can fight each other a lot[/hint]

[hint]Speed is the key when in big battles[/hint]

[hint]Take advantage of the natural cover[/hint]

[Nanami]

Grazza said:

Nanami: The standard meaning of UV Max nowadays is "finishing the level as fast as possible, in Ultra Violence, killing every monster at least once, except lost souls, and with 100% secrets." (from compet-n). So it's not really Max if you leave those archies alive. (I say "nowadays" because I think that in the early days, Max did mean 100% x3, with the possibility of leaving some monsters alive.)

Yeah, because I intend to become a Compet-N speedrunner. ;P

I got three numbers >= 100% so I call it max, nyeh. =P

[Grazza]

Nanami said:

Yeah, because I intend to become a Compet-N speedrunner. ;P

Heh. But my point was really that it is now the standard meaning (compet-n was just a convenient source). It makes sense too: as Opulent said to me recently, the basic point (and appeal) of Max is that you get to see the whole map. (Well, unless there is a big area empty of monsters and devoid of secrets.)

Of course, any exit on this map is something to be proud of, whether in a currently standard demo category or not. :)

[myk]

pritch said:
It's part of the reason I still haven't finished Plutonia.

Though the Casali brothers did take care to place the map as the super secret map (and 31 is also a rough one) so it's still possible to complete the WAD while ignoring it. This is probably the way to go for really tough maps that aren't at the end of a WAD (for instance the only appearance of an extra Cyberdemon, or true boss, in DOOM is in E3M9... they were probably thinking along these lines when they allowed themselves to place it there.)

[Nanami]

Grazza said:

Of course, any exit on this map is something to be proud of, whether in a currently standard demo category or not. :)

I wasn't even shooting for 100%, I just wanted to exit the map. I avoided cybs and lots of monsters (outside and at the exit) and ended up with 102/100/100%, so I figured I'd call it "max" because it's maxed out percentages. =P

[Grimm]

Who were these Casali brothers? How did they get involved with id and Final Doom?

[The Flange Peddler]

Grimm said:

Who were these Casali brothers? How did they get involved with id and Final Doom?

Two (English I believe) mappers who made a number of good pwads. They made a (quite highly anticipated) megawad named Plutonia. A few days (hours?) before they were about to upload it as a free megawad to the then cdrom.com, id got in contact with them and said they were interested in making it a commercial venture. So it was used in Final DooM instead.

One of them works for Valve. Dario I think. Don't know if he still does, but he worked on Half Life (his name is on one of the lockers at the beginning).

[DooMBoy]

Well I know what happened to Dario, but what about Milo? It seems he's pretty much in the background most of the time.

[Grazza]

Interview with Dario Casali

Dario Casali's website

Milo Casali "rap sheet"

Dario Casali "rap sheet"