i seem to forgot, they had lost

[Sephiroth]

isnt it odd today how much cultural and economic exchange is between japan and the US? i mean only like 58 years ago we where bitter enemies and we nuked and kicked their asses for all time. most defeated countries could have little hope to have what japan has within such a time frame. even more amazing is the lack of resoaurces on that island.

today i am sure many people find it hard to believe and i dout even think about that these people hated us and we hated them. now we couldnt possibly understand this, i bet the same is true for the youth their. I mean today both our cultures and economies are so intergraded it would be impossible to see the fact we were bitter enemies nor understand the ideals and isolationist activities of both sides.

this is even more true for younger kids. fads in the US now seem to be from japan and japan kids i am sure are into stuff from the US. I mean pokemon, yo-gi-oh and such arnt american.

it is just 1 of those ironic twists in history.

Also for those of you either not born or too young germany was 2 countries just over 10 yearas ago. i remember that well. eastern germany was poor and time seemed to stop at 1945. the berlin wall and the soviets. only in the last 10 years has that coutry been united and bounced back. had it not been for the support given to western germany i could still see germany struggling.

[Grimm]

The reason Japan is doing so good now is because America rebuilt it, and made it much better.

[fodders]

Sephiroth said:

Also for those of you either not born or too young germany was 2 countries just over 10 yearas ago.

Also for those of you either not born or too young, Germany was 1 country just over 50 years ago.

[toxicfluff]

Grimm said:

The reason Japan is doing so good now is because America rebuilt it, and made it much better.

Yeah. It would be so wonderful of me to blow someone's kneecaps off and offer to pay for the medical treatment.

[Python_Junkie]

America helping isn't really the cause; part of the postwar treaty was that Japan would not have a military (hence so many US military bases in Japan), and all that money that could've been spent on a military was able to be spent on making the country more affluent since there was no military for that money to be spent on.

Sorry to burst your bubble, seph, but because of that it's not totally ironic.

[Grimm]

Yeah, I'm, like, psychic!!!!!!111 I was gonna explain myself further, but I couldn't quite put it into words, so I didn't. Plus I got to see how long it would take before someone yelled at me. And, wow, it only took 8 minutes!!!! W00tah!!!!! or something.

Japan got a pretty good deal out of World War II, really. They invaded their neighbors for resources and land (?), attacked the US after we refused to aid them in supplies, got nuked (which cleared up in about a decade), we rebuilt them, liberating them socially (especially women), and now they're an economic superpower. History laughs at us.

[Sharessa]

Germany is basicaly THE industrial center of Europe. It probably has the highest GNP. Also, the Mark was one of the strongest currencies in the world (8/10 USD I think) before they switched to Euros.

Grimm said:

Yeah, I'm, like, psychic!!!!!!111 I was gonna explain myself further, but I couldn't quite put it into words, so I didn't. Plus I got to see how long it would take before someone yelled at me. And, wow, it only took 8 minutes!!!! W00tah!!!!! or something.

You're an idiot. "LOL I trolled teh forums!!"

[darknation]

Grimm said:

I am the reason why darknation has lost faith in the human race

Get this man some braincells.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I think it also had to do with the bubble economy that developed afterwards. It's just recently that it has been having less of an effect on markets in Japan. And, IMO, the seperation of church and state also helped there after the war (the emperor was no longer regarded as a descendant of Amaterasu).

Sephiroth said:

this is even more true for younger kids. fads in the US now seem to be from japan and japan kids i am sure are into stuff from the US. I mean pokemon, yo-gi-oh and such arnt american.

It's also fun to note that G.I. Joe is an anime from Japan originally.

[Johnatone]

TeamKill said:

It's also fun to note that G.I. Joe is an anime from Japan originally.

it's also fun to note that the company that makes G.I. Joe (Matel s/p) also manufactures the M16A1 rifles our military uses.

[insertwackynamehere]

the_Danarchist said:

"LOL I trolled teh forums!!"

I smell a tshirt ;-)

[Grimm]

It's funny, darknation, because you're the reason I've lost faith in humanity. Oh, the irony. Or something. And I didn't troll the forums; I just didn't know how to or feel like explaining myself, so I didn't; as a by-product it also allowed me to see how long teh attacks would take. The speration of Church and State was a result of America beating Japan.

[darknation]

You are a fucking idiot. Your reasoning is laughable; your faith is just camouflage to hide your ignorance and your stupidity is becoming the stuff of legend.

Each sentence you spout contains "I was gonna explain myself further, but..." or some other variant excuse for your inherent ignorance. The atomic bombs that destroyed two civilian centers of Japan were not 'cleaned up' in ten years. Even assuming that the radiation has been dispersed, the psychological impact of those events on a nation must be beyond compare. You bitch and whine about the trade centers falling over?

Japan owes America nothing. Ever. Anyone who says that Japan got a good deal by being crushed by America needs a serious reality check. I can't believe that anyone anywhere would be so arrogant as to make that statement, that the millions of people that were blown up and irradiated was actually a pretty good thing.

[Dark Fox]

Next they will be import their cars over and we will have a rice epidemic!

[fodders]

Grimm said:

liberating them socially (especially women), and now they're an economic superpower. History laughs at us.

So much so that it is now an American GI sport to rape Japanese kids, way to go.
After the war, 278 reported GI rapes were committed during the first six years of the occupation. Recent years have not been much better. Between 1988 and 1995, according to one study, more "marines and navy sailors were tried for rapes, child molestations and other sexual assaults at bases in Japan than at any other U.S. military site in the world." The vast majority of these Okinawa.

[Livo]

monochrome said:

it's also fun to note that the company that makes G.I. Joe (Matel s/p) also manufactures the M16A1 rifles our military uses.

Firstly, the US military uses the M16A2 as its assault rifle today, although the US Army is replacing them with M4A1 carbines. Secondly, Mattel never made the M16 or M16A1, that's a common myth. Colt made the rifles for the US military IIRC, but in 1988, FN Herstal started making them under license for the military.

[Grimm]

First of all, darknation, calm the fuck down. Also, I put in little brackets so you could figure out quicker whether or not a comment would be easily flamed, to make your job a little easier. Finally, I would to thank you for being the inevitable asshole who stepped foward and decided to make a debate personal. Never fails. Bye.

Now then. You forget that Japan was the Bad Guy. [Flamable Comment] They invaded their neighboring countries; they bombed us when we refused to support them. We did NOT initiate war with them. They initiated it with us. When in came down to the invasion of Japan, we had to make a choice. We could could lose literally millions of people on each side, or we could end it. Quickly . . . but with heavy, heavy civillian casualties. Unfortunently, it was the only we to bring Japan to her knees and force her to surrender. Had we bombed military bases, Japan would no doubt have kept on truckin'. Japan was fanatical and would have fought to the nearly the last man, and undoubtly there would guerilla resistance for a long, long time. When the Japanesse pulled out of the Pacific islands, they left some of their men behind and told them simply to hide from the Americans, because if the Americans ever found them, they would torture and kill them. There was one man that stayed in the bush for I believe almost 30 years; I have no doubt the guerilla resistance would never give up. Add to the fact that it make Russia back down (and if you want to look around there's a good article on that someone posted here in the past), and it seemed that nuclear warfare would have to be the choice. The nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a horrible, horrible thing, but it was War, and War is Hell. [F.C] Why don't you pull some web pages up on how that affected Japan psychologically, because I'm really not sure how it would. [F.C] Also, don't call lament over one our biggest national symbols being destroyed "bitching and whining"; while it I suppose it does pale in compasrison to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was still not a good day. [F.C.] Finally, Japan doesn't owe America anything. I never said it did.

Whether or not GI's raped women, silly rabbit, has nothing to do with the social liberation of women. As I recall, Japanesse women stood in the kitchen and did ANYTHING their husbands told them to. Certainly ain't that way anymore. I could be wrong though. I haven't looked into this matter too heavily. EDIT: And don't, DON'T even act like Britain hasn't done horrible shit like that in the past. As I've said before, no country's a saint.

[læmænt]

The WTC was one of USA's biggest national symbols? What a sorry fucked-up nation. Oh wait, I knew that.

[Grimm]

Hey, I'm glad to see you looked in the brackets. Anyway, yeah it kinda was. It was at the very least, the biggest symbol of New York. It also was important to our economy. When you think about it, we don't have too many national symbols. I do agree though, this is a fucked up nation.

[toxicfluff]

Of course it affects a country psychologically. Haven't you ever read an autobiography by someone who grew up cold war period? Or just generally in a wartime period? There's no way it could not affect at least the consciousness of the people during that time.

You refer to Sept 11th and even concede that, although horrible, it was a smaller disaster than the two nukings right? Well, that's left a HUGE fucking imprint on the psyche of America.

[AndrewB]

But still probably in the top 10 overall in the world's 200+ countries.

[Captain Red]

læmænt said:

The WTC was one of USA's biggest national symbols? What a sorry fucked-up nation. Oh wait, I knew that.

heh.

[Python_Junkie]

darknation said:

Get this man some braincells.

Let's start with yours since apparently they aren't much more up to par than his are....loller, loller, or whatever.

[Zoost]

darknation said:

....that anyone anywhere would be so arrogant as to make that statement, that the millions of people that were blown up and irradiated was actually a pretty good thing.

I don't know if mean with millions, the death caused by the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the whole Pacific war. But these are the actual numbers..

Off course the numbers are meaningless and each deatch (civilian or military) is one to many....

Hiroshima's population has been estimated at 350,000; approximately 70,000 died immediately from the explosion and another 70,000 died from radiation within five years.

Approximately 40 percent of Nagasaki was destroyed. With a population of 270,000, approximately 70,000 people died by the end of the year.

Source

Grimm said:

You forget that Japan was the Bad Guy. [Flamable Comment]

It is absolutely true that Japan and escpecially the Emporer was "the bad guy"! There is no point in denying this. So I dont think this is flamable in any way! See for example here

In its 14-year aggression war against China, Japanese army and Japanese civilians murdered over 30 million Chinese civilians, including women and children, in the most brutal fashion.

[darknation]

that's not the point. I am well aware of Japan's war history. I am also well aware that their post-war atrocity score is somewhat less than nearly every other country on the planet.

My beef lies with this line: "Japan got a pretty good deal out of World War II, really. " Which is repugnant. OMFG thanks for the atomic death, deformed babies and cancer lololololol!!! I find the brain of Grimm, stupid and debased around whatever propaganda and lies you feed your kids for breakfast over there, to be offensive. Dropping those bombs on civilian targets not only killed innocent civilians but also ruined their children and has had repercussion onto unborn lives 50 years down the line with cancers and genetic instability. That is utterly unforgivable and if idiots think that is a "good deal" and that they "Helped Japan" then someone should drop a few atomic weapons on them, see how they feel about it.

P.S: Crend, I've got a little something for you. Stick around.

[Grazza]

I'll close this for a few hours while everyone calms down a bit.

OK, reopened. I'd try to smooth things over a bit with some sort of comment, but fear it would be pointless. I'll just say that I don't believe anyone (even Grimm) is really claiming that the bombing was motivated by humanitarian aims.

[pritch]

Listen to Grazza guys. There's common ground here. Crendo, stop trolling dn.

[Grimm]

Uh, who is Crendo?

[Python_Junkie]

pritch said:

Crendo, stop trolling dn.

1) Don't call me any variation of that username as long as I'm not using it. I am now "Python_Junkie". Cren is dead, he always will be, and we thank God he should be. You don't see many people calling Funeral Fog Mac, do you? (Well, maybe a few, but it's not universal)

2) What Divine Law says I shouldn't troll him? If he's an asshole to others, he needs to learn others will be an asshole to him :P

[Sharessa]

What terrible fortune for those who wish to save humanity that people do not think.

EDIT: Shut up, Cren.