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fodders

British Politics

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With Iain Duncan Smith being deposed as the elected leader by a party of MP's over ruling the wishes of the Party members and being replaced without election by the same MP's, 2 things spring to my paranoid mind
His replacement Michael Howard, will be the 1st Jewish leader of Great Britain
And Duncan Smith was leader of the Conservatives for 777 days :P

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And a Tory old boy is leading again, which is what the MP's want. And I bet they disliked Iain/Duncan Smith (both of them, hahahaha) because he was elected by the party members at the grass roots not by the MP's at the top.

Still, I don't care, as no matter who is in Government, they can't run the country properly.

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The Ultimate DooMer said:

And I bet they disliked Iain/Duncan Smith (both of them, hahahaha) because he was elected by the party members at the grass roots not by the MP's at the top.

Don't forget that while he was elected in 2001 by party members, it was from a choice of just two candidates presented to them by the MPs. It was the MPs who eliminated Portillo (and others). It's not as if IDS lacked support among MPs at that time.

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Gee, I wish I knew what was going on. This reminds me, I have a thread to post . . .

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The thing that pissed me off is that in the run up to IDS getting done over, all concerned parties (as in people) were making statements like "we just need to get back to doing our job - showing the country what a bad job Labour are doing".

Well excuse me, but that's not your job! Surely your job is to provide alternatives and better solutions, to establish through informed debate the best way forward. Not to knock the other guy just because he is the other guy.

Dammit! I know party politics suck and so often have nothing to do with what they claim to be doing, but never in such a short space of time had I heard so many people, who are actually involved, explicitly stating as much.

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Well, in fairness when the second house of parliament was commisioned the main purpose of the opposition was to first make conscientious objections, checks and claims against on the ruling party and secondly to offer an alternative to your franchised electorate (usually wealthy men) come election time.

I guess in the modern era negative politics are looked down upon, personally I don't mind a bit of both. I do want to see the Tories and for that matter the Lib Dems show how Labour is fucking up, mostly because I could then have some context when looking at how they propose to change things.

You need sense when voting to realise to what extent a party can realise it's policy objectives given restrictions on taxing, interference from civil service etc. In Britain it's pretty difficult to introduce any legislation that's too radical in any way, so really when you vote you're electing a gentle steer in either direction, left or right.

Heh, Michael Howard. At last a real Tory heavyweight. They're not going to be sitting as comfortably as before in Number 10 now. Labour would have loved it, absolutely loved it, if IDS had held on. That, really, is why he had to go for me. I still think Labour are going to win the next election but it's going to be with a very marginal majority. We could even see a hung parliament IMO, with a big rise in Lib Dem seats.

Actually Howard wouldn't be the first Jewish ruler of Britain, as there was that enigmatic primrose-wearing Conservative giant Benjamin Disraeli, who fought Gladstone in the 1870/80s and was prime minister twice iirc. He was later baptised a Christian though, so maybe he doesn't count :P

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Surely your job is to provide alternatives and better solutions, to establish through informed debate the best way forward. Not to knock the other guy just because he is the other guy.

Heh, ever hear what almost all of the Democratic candidates in the US are sayin'?

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pritch said:

Actually Howard wouldn't be the first Jewish ruler of Britain, as there was that enigmatic primrose-wearing Conservative giant Benjamin Disraeli, who fought Gladstone in the 1870/80s and was prime minister twice iirc. He was later baptised a Christian though, so maybe he doesn't count :P

I dicarded him because he became Christian in 1813 but well spotted :)
As a Jew, Benjamin Disraeli would have been barred by English law from a political career.
In 1858 Lionel de Rothschild became the first Jewish MP who was permitted to take his seat without taking the oath that involved the words "by the true faith of a Christian".

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Enjay said:

Well excuse me, but that's not your job! Surely your job is to provide alternatives and better solutions, to establish through informed debate the best way forward. Not to knock the other guy just because he is the other guy.

It's kind of awkward for them when New Labour has more or less adopted traditional Conservative policies on some of the main economic issues. The natural thing for the Conservatives to do in that case surely is to try to claim that the policies are being implemented badly or dishonestly, rather than to claim that they are wholly mistaken.

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@Grazza Heh, OK conceded.


Hmmm, not that it should matter, but regardless of that, it does: With the world, especially the Middle East, such a sensitive place at the moment I wonder how the possibility of a Jewish British leader touring the Middle East for peace negotiations etc will go down.

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Enjay said:

@Grazza Heh, OK conceded.


I wonder how the possibility of a Jewish British leader touring the Middle East for peace negotiations etc will go down.

Our Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw, responsible for that is Jewish, so doubt it would change anything.

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Personally I couldn't give a crap about British politics anymore, seeing as how nowadays the EU and the US have far more say over how our country is run than the British parliament.

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Enjay said:

Hmmm, not that it should matter, but regardless of that, it does: With the world, especially the Middle East, such a sensitive place at the moment I wonder how the possibility of a Jewish British leader touring the Middle East for peace negotiations etc will go down.


It won't change a thing, as the Palestinian militants don't want peace. (and you can't have peace when the bombs are going off)

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It brings a warm glow to the heart to read today that Israel is to allow thousands of Palestinians back into Israel this week to work, after they have been excluded for months...but wait...isn't there a vote for the Israelis to call a strike this week? Ahhh so the PALESTINIANS can be strike breakers, good thinking Sharon!

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I just find it ironic that IDS is so shit that he makes William Hague look half decent.

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