too little too late

[Sephiroth]

how do you think doom 3 is gonna come out? first it seems every game is being delayed. second i think that doom3 has been in production for 4-3 years.
honestly now was the best time to release doom3. holidays and the 10th birthday of doom. also hardware is cheaper and plentiful.

it latest possible release date should be no later than 1st quater 2004. reasons being that all so called doom3 only features will have made it into most games. also the fact that hardware supporting it has been out for some time and is now cheap. another is still the technology edge.

after 1st quater 2004 should be viewed as a bit of a problem with Id. its getting late at that point. also it has failed to make use of hardware that has been out for almost a year at this point. 1 being 64-bit CPU's

2005 and beyond. Id has failed and pulled a daikatana for the most part. doom3 is late for the party and everyone has goone home. at this point it fail because it has lost the technology edge and failed to use hardware that has been out for some time.

reasons for concern.
not all of Id was behind carmack on his choice of doom3. i think a few left/quit/fired over it. others just didnt want to do it. also conflicts over features and such between carmack and others. so you have a group that does not have a unified goal and that always mucks things up.
too much quake, if this was any other company people would be getting worried about the project. i would hate to see doom 3 turned into daikatana or even duke4.

[Arioch]

Dumbass.

[Mogul]

I see your point.

I'm just looking forward to it coming out though.

I think that even though the game is late, it will still create that generational jump that id always accomplishes. Things like taking advantage of 64 bit CPUs are important, but the impact Doom 3 will have will be sufficient enough without them.


My opinion, of course.

[chilvence]

So in your eyes, Doom 3 is late and has missed the technological edge.

So what about it anyway, its just a game like any other. Ill still play snes games if someone reccomends a good one that I missed.

[Shaviro]

Good thing Doom3 is a game and not a technology demo then.

[Tetzlaff]

Sephiroth said:

i would hate to see doom 3 turned into daikatana or even duke4.

If you don´t want Doom3 or any other game turning into a second Daikatana then don´t ask for rushing it! Daikatana wasn´t bad because it came out later then promised, it sucked because they released it in a very buggy and semi-finished state.

Same with Duke Nukem Forever... I really don´t fucking care when it comes out. It only has to be good when it´s released.

[chilvence]

Yep. We can all say DNF is a joke (and it is by now..) but who really gives a toss as long as it turns out to be a fun game?

Dont you think its a choke chain on the game industry, if it has to break every possible tech boundrary and release 10 games a year just to keep in the public eye? Look at looking glass. An amazing company who produced a one of the most immersive games I have ever experienced, but they were shot to shit because no one believed in them.

[dsm]

DNF is the only game I'm positive will be better than Doom 3. Here's why I think that:

1. 3drealms' goal is to create the best game ever - last time that was their goal was with Duke3d. Duke3d may not be among my favorites, but it was definitely more popular than Quake ever was and as such, 3dRealms accomplished that goal. Duke3d ended up surpassing any expectations and it too was seemingly in development for a loooong time (though nothing compared to DNF).
By comparison, it's not id's goal to make the best freakin' game ever - it has always been Carmack's goal to make the most compelling engines ever, not make the best games ever.

2. The more people ridicule 3dRealms, the more determined they are to deliver what they promise. There's really only two options: They either shut down the project, or they deliver - those were more or less what one of the 3dRealms employees stated on an official DNF forum I looked at.

3. Basic track record - 3drealms have never done a bad game (and that holds true for id as well, even though AndrewB might claim otherwise, which again makes me shake my head at Sephiroth's pessimistic views).

[Scabbed Angel]

1. More popular than Quake? The series or just the first game. Either way, I disagree. And if it was the "best game" of the time, wouldn't it have made more of an impact on the industry?

2. They should shut it down, the time to release it has passed long ago, in my eyes. Although RTCW turned out really well, I don't think that DN left a big enough legacy, and it was pretty much a silly macho ripoff of Doom. To each their own, I suppose.

3. I didn't think Duke Nuken was all that great or innovative. Decent. I'm sure to many it was a fun game though, and lewdly entertaining, at least before the later GTA series, 3 and 4. Different games somewhat, but I'd rather play those that any new Duke Nuken game. Also, I'm back Doomworld!

[CelT]

ACTIVISION HAS PUBLISHED THE REVENUE DATE.
THAT IS JUST THE TIME OF MONEY BACK.
IT MEANS THAT RELEASE WILL BE MORE EARLY.
THIS PRESS RELEASE MEANS THAT GAME IS 99% READY.

---
The company is raising its outlook for net revenue for the full fiscal year by $30 million to $780 million, while at the same time it is moving DOOM 3(TM) into its next fiscal year for planning purposes.

[Mogul]

How do you figure that?

(I'm not being sarcastic, I don't know much about that sort of thing)

[dsm]

Scabbed Angel said:
1. More popular than Quake? The series or just the first game. Either way, I disagree. And if it was the "best game" of the time, wouldn't it have made more of an impact on the industry?

Personal opinion =! opinion of the majority (just to ensure that you understood me right). When I said DN3d was more popular than Quake (1), I was speaking from what I've read elsewhere. I do not deny that my sources could have been totally off, but I'm speaking from what I've got the impression of from looking around on the net.

I think I said that I actually liked Quake 1 better than DN3d myself, so in terms of personal opinion, I probably agree with most of your points.

2. They should shut it down, the time to release it has passed long ago, in my eyes. Although RTCW turned out really well, I don't think that DN left a big enough legacy, and it was pretty much a silly macho ripoff of Doom. To each their own, I suppose.

I disagree - it does not matter how long DNF has been in development if it's good in the end. I've read that the Unreal engine can be modified, if not infinitely, then at least far beyond its original boundaries, and it's been a long time since the most recent DNF screenshots - the game could have improved a lot in terms of looks so I wouldn't worry there. And graphics is the least thing, since DN3d looked damn cartoonish and primitive, but it still rocked (to most people at least) because the gameplay was fun.

3. I didn't think Duke Nuken was all that great or innovative. Decent. I'm sure to many it was a fun game though, and lewdly entertaining, at least before the later GTA series, 3 and 4. Different games somewhat, but I'd rather play those that any new Duke Nuken game.

You may not think that DN3d was innovative or anything, but I still want to give it credit for the awesome environments for the time and the impression the game gave the player of actually manipulating the environment (despite just being generic "press-button puzzles" ) - I gotta admit that I don't give a crap about DN3d being the first FPS featuring "a hero with an attitude", because imo that just detracted from the atmosphere in the creepier areas of the game (you could turn it off, but that just gave the game an incomplete feel since you knew that it was supposed to be experienced with Duke's smartass remarks).

Either way, it's all a matter of preference, but all I wanted to say before was that I am convinced that DNF will become more popular than D3 in general, because Doom 3 is gonna be "just a generic shooter" (I've seen more negative comments about how "Doom 3 won't be anything special" than I could shake a stick at) while DNF seems to be a game with loads of interaction and it's my impression that most people would rather like the option to manipulate anything in the game world and have a totally non-linear gameplay. So far, I've a feel DNF will deliver what most people want - me personally, I'm looking forward to Doom 3 the most and I'm convinced it'll rock (and that it will not be too late when it's released), but DNF is another game I'm looking forward to - regardless of how long it's been in development, it'll rock too.

[DaJuice]

wow, i didn't think you had eyes for any other game dsm. Even stranger, I find myself agreeing with you. I too think DNF will be something special when it comes out, moreso than Doom3 or HalfLife2. If it turns out to suck then you can all point and laugh at me:P

[Teh Macvileness]

Arioch said:

Dumbass.

I'll double that dumbass

[dsm]

DaJuice said:

wow, i didn't think you had eyes for any other game dsm.

That's because I choose my games with extreme care (and prejudice) - it's not until I did some more indepth research on DNF that I reached the conclusion that it would appeal to me.

Earlier, I just thought it would be more of what Duke Nukem 3d would be, but after thinking about it and reading about what supposedly is going to be in the game, I've become a lot more optimistic towards it.

[Teh Macvileness]

Too bad DNF won't be released until satan takes his hold on this world.

:(

[toxicfluff]

I can't wait for DNF. Duke3d was an excellent game, and really quite ahead of it's time. An unseen amount of level interactivity at that point (remember playing pool by kicking the balls around the table?) and some original weapon ideas. I think DNF will be great, 3drealms are a company I have faith in and I think that they really will take advantage of new technology (not necessarily graphics tech though) and use it well.

[NiGHTMARE]

chilvence said:

Look at looking glass. An amazing company who produced a one of the most immersive games I have ever experienced, but they were shot to shit because no one believed in them.

No, Looking Glass were shut down because EIDOS couldn't afford to keep the studio open after that publisher foolishly wasted millions of dollars on Ion Storm.

[chilvence]

You didnt think I meant they failed because the masses didnt use their religious faith power to keep their energy bar levels up did you?

No, I mean the industry didnt take them seriously, and treated them second best. Thats exactly the thing that makes this thread moronic. The industry thrives on brainwashing people into the next 1337 tech!, but doesnt have the guts to give something different a chance.

I remember hanging reading through some old gamer boards a few years ago, when all the people were like "Q3A OWNS DAIKATANA" and "DAIKATANA OWNZ Q3A". I thought they were both gonna be good games, but one I didnt get past the demo of, and the other was fun for a while and then swiftly expended...

I bet those people are still sitting there in their respective camps, flaming each other, probably even on the same boards. If thats what the meat of the game industry is, I may as well shoot myself now. (or perhaps just going outside would be a better option...) Because a market like that is never gonna learn.

Im sick of seeing Doom clones with new weapons and higher specs. Doom I still play because it is the original, and I have fond memories, but all its clones have only managed to keep me through one session.

[Dubh]

My humble opinion:

Alot of people I feel are losing hope. This is wrong. Doom3 is going to far exceed peoples expectations. Look, we have only seen a handful of screen and movies. The alpha was released but shouldn't be taken into account. I personally have not seen a game that will look as good as Doom will. When you step into a Carmack engine there is a different sense of solidity than in other games. ID don't release buggy games. Their worlds are tighter, more fluid and excellent examples of bleeding edge technology. I still believe they are well ahead of the race tech wise. And then we have gameplay. I don't even have to comment on ids gameplay..nuff said.

I know the wait is exhausting, shit, you only have to look at the post count. We haven't had much material to feed on lately so I believe the end of the wait is near. If we get a surprise and it's released early, so be it but I can wait a little longer. Doom3 is not Daikatana and shouldn't even be in the same paragraph as the word. ID are on the job lads. Nothing to worry about. Peoples faith in ID wavered after Quake 3 but thats because they made a bold step towards Multiplayer. We haven't seen a fully-id game since that. We haven't seen a full id SP game in a long long time.

This game will put a smile on all of your faces. If not you can flame me to hell and back. I have faith and patience. DNF will be good but doesn't compare .......

Anybody who has had the privilege to see D3 in action is left speechless. God knows what else they are throwing into the game
.We have only seen the tip of the iceberg people. There was a media blackout (semi) on new material since the leak. The want to scare the hell out of us i.e: We haven't seen ANYTHING of the final game.

Trust me.....wait and see. When Doomsday comes around, there will be some posts on this board. Probably only consisting of "OMG"

As for the thread "Too little too late": Get a fucking grip. One delay and people start pissing and moaning. It isn't been released because ITS NOT READY. Activision should have never put that "2003" on the Doom3 banner. "When it's done" this isn't some cheeky statement to drive the media frenzy!!! It's the only release statement id could have released from the beginning. This is the biggest game they have ever taken on board. I'm sure that they would have wanted to release it this year but we can only be greatfull that they aren't a materialistic bunch of guys. They care about their product. They want it to be right.

Believe me, this game will be revolutionary!!!

[Shaviro]

Dubh said:

My humble opinion:

Agreed! :)

[Disorder]

All of this won't mean a thing anymore when you first set foot in UAC's base on Mars.

[Arioch]

so close ... and yet so far ...

[sniperfrommars1]

Disorder said:

All of this won't mean a thing anymore when you first set foot in UAC's base on Mars.

So be it jedi ;). I got chills when you said that bro ;). You make the best point, the games are about fun not the politics and i bet when doom3 and DNF are released they will rock our worlds

[AndrewB]

I don't think it's too late for Doom 3. Technology isn't important to a game. Maybe to a game's sales, but not to its fun factor. Of course, Doom 3's fun factor is a total unknown. I believe that the original Doom was an incredible revolution in gameplay. As for Doom 3, ID has said that Doom 3 won't be a gameplay revolution in any way. I believe that Doom 3 will be an acceptable, average game.

[toxicfluff]

Wasn't RTCW an ID game? I know gray matter did the multiplayer, but I'm fairly sure ID did the SP.

[Shaviro]

AndrewB said:

ID has said that Doom 3 won't be a gameplay revolution in any way. I believe that Doom 3 will be an acceptable, average game.

They have said Doom3 won't be wildly innovative in the gameplay department.

ToXiCFLUFF said:

Wasn't RTCW an ID game? I know gray matter did the multiplayer, but I'm fairly sure ID did the SP.

Raven Software did the SP.

[Tetzlaff]

I think Gray Matter Studios did the SP, and Nerve Software did the MP in RtCW?

[toxicfluff]

Ah, well who knows. But anyway, I didn't think it was very good.

[Tetzlaff]

id Softwares last SP game was Quake2, and it´s one of my all-time favourites.

RtCW was only supervised by id. I would give it a solid 80% score. It had many aspects that could have been much better, but overall it was enjoyable and it definitely had it´s great moments.