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EarthQuake

Monster Sight

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I've seen this effect is vanilla doom wads and I was wondering how to recreate it.

Some monsters can be staring straight at you and not become active until you get so close. I've looked at the levels that do this, but after studying them I still can't figure it out.

Btw, their sight is not blocked by invisible walls/partitions in theis case. What is it then?

[edit]I just experienced this on E4M6 Ultra Violence with an imp on the leftmost ledge after you exit the rocky place.[/edit]

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That's probably due to a bad (or deliberately tweaked) reject map. The reject map "tells" the engine that monsters in sector n cannot "see" things in sector m. Generally this is done so the program doesn't waste time checking if monsters on the other side of a big map can see the player, but it can be made so that they cannot see the player when he is right in front of them.

I'm sure there is a tutorial about this somewhere online. Found it.

Another useful link (different issue).

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Thank you.

[edit]afaik, I can't go about taking advantage of this because Deepsea ignores the reject lump entries. So that means I can't export the reject, modify it, and then reinsert it.

I'm going to try to find an editor that does and try this...

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I am PRETTY sure you can pull off a trick like this via DeHackED as well. If only I could think of the MOD right now...

...there was one that did this with Demons, they were all in a circle and did not come alive unless you touched them, I'm pretty sure when I investigated it was DeHackED, but I could be wrong, it's been a while.

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I don't work with dehacked as well.

I mainly want everything to be in the wad file itself and I want the wad to be compatible with all ports... so I'm kinda limited.
I figured if I could include a modified reject table with the wad it might all work out.

Thanks anyways.

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EarthQuake said:

Thank you.

[edit]afaik, I can't go about taking advantage of this because Deepsea ignores the reject lump entries. So that means I can't export the reject, modify it, and then reinsert it.

I'm going to try to find an editor that does and try this...

Not sure what you mean, but DeePsea will COPY an existing REJECT without modifying it - you do have to enable the option though. That was done a long time ago for people who create custom REJECTS. You probably know this too: Be sure to redo the REJECT if you change the level, otherwise it will keep copying a REJECT that doesn't apply to the current level.

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XDelusion:
I am PRETTY sure you can pull off a trick like this via DeHackED as well. If only I could think of the MOD right now...

...there was one that did this with Demons, they were all in a circle and did not come alive unless you touched them, I'm pretty sure when I investigated it was DeHackED, but I could be wrong, it's been a while.

I thinks it's Memento Mori 2 (Although I could be confused with part 1). One of the earlier maps... I always thought it was some sort of bug though...

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You could simulate this by blocking the monster. If they don't have enough room to maneuver (ledged in by a low ceiling or by close walls) they don't appear to be awake... so make some invisible blocking stuff that is lifted when the player approaches.

The RMB trick works better of course, but every time you change your map you'll have to rebuild the reject table to preserve the trick.

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Mordeth said:

The RMB trick works better of course, but every time you change your map you'll have to rebuild the reject table to preserve the trick.



Not to mention that some people (myself included) tend to rebuild the nodes (and with it the blockmap and reject) with a better node builder. Of course the effect will be lost then...

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deep said:

Not sure what you mean, but DeePsea will COPY an existing REJECT without modifying it - you do have to enable the option though. That was done a long time ago for people who create custom REJECTS. You probably know this too: Be sure to redo the REJECT if you change the level, otherwise it will keep copying a REJECT that doesn't apply to the current level.


Thanks, that clears things up a little more...

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Okay now I got another problem...
I think Deepsea doesn't allow you to see the Reject, Blockmap, Linedefs, etc entries... How do I get to them so I can export them?

[edit] the strange thing is that I can see those entries on older levels, but why doesn't Deepsea create/show them for wads I create?

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EarthQuake said:

Okay now I got another problem...
I think Deepsea doesn't allow you to see the Reject, Blockmap, Linedefs, etc entries... How do I get to them so I can export them?

[edit] the strange thing is that I can see those entries on older levels, but why doesn't Deepsea create/show them for wads I create?

All level entries are hidden for your protection:) Not sure what you meant about seeing them for older levels. They don't show in any previews, except as a raw hex view in Edit/Dump. The REJECT is created when you save or build nodes.

Anyway, you don't have to mess or see the REJECT in DeePsea. All you do is create the REJECT for your level with a nodes builder that makes them - for example, ZENNODE (or any pgm that modifies the REJECT). Once the REJECT is created turning the "copy reject" option just copies the REJECT imbedded for your level.

If I'm misunderstanding (or haven't covered what you using), you can use XWE to delete and insert REJECT lumps at your pleasure. The DeePsea option will keep your REJECT intact when it saves - so that's why you need to be careful that after any structural changes you redo your work. This final REJECT tuning should be done after you are done with your level construction (not counting enemy changes, flags, etc).

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XDelusion said:

I am PRETTY sure you can pull off a trick like this via DeHackED as well. If only I could think of the MOD right now...

...there was one that did this with Demons, they were all in a circle and did not come alive unless you touched them, I'm pretty sure when I investigated it was DeHackED, but I could be wrong, it's been a while.


It was in Requeim Map02

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