just beat Lost Episodes - it was TOO EASY

[ixfd64]

Well, well, well, I just beat Lost Episodes w/o cheats on Hurt Me Plenty, and I was very disappointed. Most levels were too easy! Except for E3M7: Jovian Killjoy, in which I almost died, most other levels were too damn easy.

For example, in E2M7 and E2M8, there were too many weapons and supercharges laying around. And there's that invul. artifact at the cyberdemon boss! What a joke...

On the contrary, I thought it was gonna be much harder. (Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels was much harder than the original version.)

[Ichor]

Then try it on Ultraviolence.

[Torn]

Ichor said:

Then try it on Ultraviolence.

or nightmare.

[Linguica]

I forget what exactly "Lost Episodes" is but if it's that levelset that was sold back in like 1994 along with some book than of course it's going to be too easy because everyone sucked back then. Try out Alien Vendetta or Hell Revealed if you want hard.

[ixfd64]

I'm trying Final Doom right now, lol...

[Igor9]

I've never even seen the lost episode maps. How are they architecturally? Are they at least id quality?

[Vile]

A good notch below iD quality IMO, I didn't like them at all. It was among the types of level structure that made no sense, even in the surreal kinda way the original episodes were done, like a random mishmash(?) of rooms pasted together.

[Naked Snake]

the Lost Episodes sucked ass. They should have stayed lost.

[sargebaldy]

Igor9 said:

Are they at least id quality?

I don't see why people toss that out like all maps nowadays are id quality. Most stuff nowadays is more obviously detailed than id's maps, but still in many ways far more simplistic. The Lost Levels are pretty bad by today's standards though.

[NiGHTMARE]

The levels by Christian Klie were good (check out his bf_thud megawad for Doom 2), but the ones by the other guy were terrible.

[sargebaldy]

They were better at least, although I'd hesitate to put the word 'good' on them. The ones made by the second guy were awful.

[NiGHTMARE]

Compared to most other wads being released around the same time, they were superb!

[sargebaldy]

True :) But playing Dead Base and Mount Fire, which are several months older older even than uac_dead, I can't really buy into that excuse that much. People obviously could build high-quality wads back then, they just didn't.

offtopic: does anyone know if Dead Base was the first wad to use dummy sectors?

[Igor9]

sargebaldy said:

Most stuff nowadays is more obviously detailed than id's maps, but still in many ways far more simplistic.

I agree that most stuff nowadays are more detailed. How do you explain them being more simplistic as well? In what ways?

NiGHTMARE said:

The levels by Christian Klie were good (check out his bf_thud megawad for Doom 2), but the ones by the other guy were terrible.

I'll check it out. I hope they are reflective of the quality of the Lost Episode maps that he worked on.

[sargebaldy]

Igor9 said:

I agree that most stuff nowadays are more detailed. How do you explain them being more simplistic as well? In what ways?

Compared to Episode 1 of Doom, I'd say most modern maps have less light transitioning, more linear design, less chaotically interesting design, less mystery in locating secrets, a less interesting atmosphere, and a less cohesive theme.

[Torn]

Igor9 said:

I've never even seen the lost episode maps. How are they architecturally? Are they at least id quality?

e1m9, e2m9 and e3m9 is. Heh.

[Igor9]

sargebaldy said:

Compared to Episode 1 of Doom, I'd say most modern maps have less light transitioning, more linear design, less chaotically interesting design, less mystery in locating secrets, a less interesting atmosphere, and a less cohesive theme.

Hmm, I went back to ep1 to see what you were talking about and it does seem that although ep1 maps were rather simplistic architecturally as compared to the later pwads, it did have alot of detailing and little things that seem to imply a 3D setting, like the candlelabras in raised alcoves with flickering sector lighting in Phobos Anomaly. The kind of things most pwad authors won't bother with because it takes too much time and didn't contribute much to the "vision" that they were trying to create. I read somewhere that id had a few people working on each map, so maybe someone created the basic map and someone else went over it with a detailing brush so to speak.

[Szymanski]

I remember enjoying the first episode and most of the second. The stone henge map sucked. The expectations of doomers have shifted a lot since it was released, I definately wouldn't buy it now.

[ixfd64]

The maps sucked compared to id ones, but it was still a bit fun. What I didn't like was that there were too many weapons and ammo on E2M7 and E2M8. I mean, I just took the liberty of blasting single imps with the BFG9000.

[Ubik]

The first episode and the first half of the second episode - in other words, the maps done by the one guy - were pretty decent, albeit fairly primitive in some respects. But all the other ones, done by the other guy, were TERRIBLE. They were all continent-sized maps with maybe half a dozen enemies in them, with completely random texturing and poor item and enemy placement. Hell, Jovian Stonehenge is one of the UGLIEST maps in all known history, and LE's e2m8 was the worst waste of a Cyberdemon I've ever seen.

I'd say just play through the first episode, then put it down.