The /newstuff Chronicles #157

[The Ultimate DooMer]

udderdude said:

If this is the kind of crap I'm to expect when I release a map and try to get some comments from it, I should probabally just upload them to /newstuff and forget about checking doomworld.com alltogether. Christ.

Or upload it in a week when there's a different reviewer on.

gemini09: deathz0r has a policy on old wads that says he never reviews them. (even those that are on the archives for the first time)

[deathz0r]

Ack, I lost some of my replies to certain people, so they may differ from what I actually meant. This time I reminded myself to open a new IE window. Anyway, seeing as I have a lot of stuff to reply to, I might as well stop ranting right now.

udderdude said:

I get flooded out by a joke megawad

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you some stupid biased SP doomer who prefers detail over gameplay? If so, you really aren't worth replying to, but since you posted so many damn replies, I guess I have to.

Enjay said:

The reviewers are amateurs and hobbyists who put their time and effort into the reviews. Saying "your reviews suck" is no different in principle to the reviewers saying the same about levels. I for one would like to say "thank you" to them and ask them to "keep up the good work".

Thanks a lot, that really does make me feel better, especially since that came from someone with such a high level of respect in the community. This is not the first time you've defended me, I really appreciate it.

udderdude said:

It seems like deathz0r is just pissed off and decided to take it out on this week's WADs. It seems like he played mine for about 2 seconds before writing his "review". Infact, any WAD that wasn't from someone he allready knows he totally trashed. Bleh.

Since I'm in the middle of exams/finals, my concentration was split evenly between those two completely different situations. I played your wad for about five minutes, and I was only able to get to the blood pool near the start once, since I kept dying. I may suck at SP, but I definitely know what makes a good SP wad. Vrack 3 may be a little bit repetitive in texturing, but I care a lot more about gameplay than detailing. I don't like Apocalypse because of how annoying the variety of difficulty is.

Rellik said:

Maybe Deathy is Cranky Steves son?

The plot thickens!

Vegeta said:

I'm sure that there are a lot of guys here that should love to do his work (not me).

Great theory, I'd love to see it work in logic though.

Jippy said:

Don't whine because your review wasn't good. Here's a tip. Make better WAD's.

Pretty much took the words right out of my mouth.

Jon said:

Who made you in charge of uploads? Thats right, nobody. Stick to reviewing stuff and leave your high-horse, I-know-the-archives-inside-out attitude out of it.

Normally I'd agree to that, but the fact that exec is already in the archives is what made me comment on this reply.

Hyena said:

And if new authors are discouraged from one bad review, maybe they shouldn't be making wads. Criticism is heavy, even for some of the best ones. But that's part of the learning curve. Some criticism needs to be weighed and considered. Other criticism needs to be ignored. If you let it get to you once, it'll probably get to you every time.

Exactly what I said when I first started writing up /newstuff Chronicles, but now I don't bother, since I usually hope that the idiot who cries about it got the point before replying to it.

Linguica said:

Hey Scuba Steve, we need a "fire deathzor now" graphic for people to post.

Szymanski said:

and t-shirts, there's money to be made

Haha, that definitely lightened up my day.

udderdude said:

Hmm, I see Newbie under your name. Looks like you're new here too!

Jippy is no newbie. He's been around a lot longer than most people think, and I've known him for almost the entire time I've been in the ZDaemon community.

Graf Zahl said
Isn't that to be expected when Deathz0r is reviewing? If I remember correctly the last time when he was doing it the same thing happened.

There was no flamewar when I did it the last time, but it has happened on almost all occasions that I've reviewed. It's like a bad omen, but I don't actually mind it.

ravage said
It's deathz0r. Fucking deal with it already. If you hadn't noticed, he's a sadistic bastard by nature and in no way are you to take insult by it. If you do, you are oversensitive and every little thing someone says about you on the internet brings you to tears.

Exactly. The whole purpose of the internet is to gain anonymousity (even though I don't mind giving out my full name), which makes people feel invincible or superior. Since I review other people's maps, I feel superior, or something along that lines.

Bloodshedder said:

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But I think if the reviewer fails to provide such information, you'll usually get what you want from people who respond in the comment thread, like you have this time.

I don't detest anyone wanting to write up reviews of whatever I review in the /newstuff threads, but everyone prefers to "WAHH FUCK YOU YOUR REVIEWS SUCK YOU DESERVE TO BE FIRED BLAH BLAH BLAH WAHH" than actually write one up. General message to all who don't like my reviews: Go write one up if you don't like mine, I could care less.

Frades said:

You couldn't find your way out of the pit because you have to kill the baddies first. And then you'll get out of there.

I always die when I'm fighting them.

gemini09 said
About the WAD you didn't review because it was just a compilation, you can still review it by saying most maps are good/bad and they flow well one after another and there are no super good looking maps and some super ugly maps, and so on.

A lot of people know how much I hate reviewing old maps. Just because it's in /newstuff, doesn't mean (in my opinion) that it's new.

Everyone who said:

Crap about me taking "20 minutes"

For those who think I played all the maps and wrote the reviews in 20 minutes, then you're all wrong. I spent at least 2 hours playing all the maps, and since I played most of them so much, that I pretty much wrote up the reviews in slipstream time.

[Shaviro]

Well I agree with deathz0r. The first step in improving your mapping skills is to realise what you're doing now isn't very good. I'm speaking out of experience.

[Kaiser]

DooMBoy said:

I hope I hope I hope there will be a Kaiser_6 :)

won't be for a while, I have to get back to work on other things.

[Jippy]

udderdude said:

If this is the kind of crap I'm to expect when I release a map and try to get some comments from it, I should probabally just upload them to /newstuff and forget about checking doomworld.com alltogether. Christ.

It's "probably" and "altogether".

Oh, and you're one step away from throwing yourself to the ground and screaming "I QUIT AND I'M NEVER COMING BACK EVER". Right on brotha'!

deathz0r said:

Jippy is no newbie. He's been around a lot longer than most people think, and I've known him for almost the entire time I've been in the ZDaemon community.

UD on top!

[gemini09]

Deathzor that was my point, even though you've reviewed the maps, you haven't said a single word about the megawad, which may have levels placed bad one after another, and the other stuff I said. You really can do both (Not re-review the maps, but review the entire WAD).

[Hellbent]

Deathz0r said:
For those who think I played all the maps and wrote the reviews in 20 minutes, then you're all wrong. I spent at least 2 hours playing all the maps, and since I played most of them so much, that I pretty much wrote up the reviews in slipstream time.

Thank you for clearing that up, Deathz0r, you had me worried there.

Did someone call my r-mega.wad a "joke magawad"? Or was Udderdude referring to last week's Mock2.wad? Thanks for defending my wad Deathz0r if this comment was in fact referring to it.

[Little Faith]

Yeah, Udderdude's comments were rather foolish,

still I think Jippy is acting awfully stuck up. Generally I hate that "STFU n00b!" mindset.

Scares people away that could potentially grow up to be fine mappers.

[Jippy]

Little Faith said:

still I think Jippy is acting awfully stuck up. Generally I hate that "STFU n00b!" mindset.

Love me or hate me, it's the way I am. :P

However, it wasn't the fact that someone was a n00b that caused my first reply. It was the fact that someone was whining about the cards dealt to him.

So yeah, it's not a "STFU n00b" mindset, but more of a "STFU crybaby" mindset.

[deathz0r]

Shaviro said:

The first step in improving your mapping skills is to realise what you're doing now isn't very good. I'm speaking out of experience.

Yeah, all of the recent reviewers (except for grazza) have all worked on popular wads, including the recent Mock2.

[Liam]

Schlagwerk by Udderdude - A wad to turn your MAP01 into a giant bleeding ventilation shaft. METAL up the bunghole my good doomers, and yes the texture misalignments are still ugly.

This is a map to keep your balls in your throat and your finger on the quicksave. As the green marine, your mission is to decimate a gathering of hell's most annoying legions; unfortunately, you are in short supply of a valuable tactical resource called "room".

Revenants, hell knights and pain elementals will be in your face, on your ass, under the bridge you stand on and on the top of that staircase, forcing you back to find a precious 128 units of breathing space.

It's intense, alright, but here's a hint for good gameplay: don't be too predictable. You can only trap so many weapons and health packs before I grow wise to your tricks. After the first few rooms I had a winning strategy in mind: should you run across a much-needed powerup, immediately about face and bolt in the other direction faster than deathz0r's family under attack by rabid wallabies.

FYI, you'll need ZDoom, for the custom soundtrack and for the deep pools of blood the bastard author hid his revenants in.

[Sharessa]

Liam: Best Newstuffer Ever!

[Hyena]

Now THAT's a review.

[Udderdude]

Well, I guess I've learned a few things from this ..

1. Everyone in Doomworld hates stealth monsters, cramped areas and low ammo, even if it's intentional. If a map has even one of these elements they'll treat it like it's a noob's first attempt at making a room full of cybers with a BFG behind them.

2. Complaining that a /newstuff review is bad is the equivalent of running into a MENSA meeting with your pants down and screaming "I FUCKED YOUR MOM!!!"

3. Jippy is an asshole.

Thanks for the honest review, Liam.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

I like stealth monsters, but I am careful with where I use them. Cramped areas are fine too (as long as the gameplay isn't impossible) and low ammo is ok if you have a chainsaw/berserk to fall back on. And I've never made a big room full of cybers and a bfg.

[Jippy]

udderdude said:

3. Jippy is an asshole.

Haha, awesome! Thanks buddy!

Good that you learned a few things. Maybe next time you won't throw a tantrum because someone disagrees with you.

[Job]

udderdude, I recall you saying that deatz0r's reviews are biased as to whether or not he knows the author of the wad. I know this isn't true, because he reviewed one of my first wads and gave it a decent review. And by decent, I don't mean the quality of his review -- because the quality of his reviews seem pretty good to me. By decent, I mean what he said about my wad. The fact is, he didn't know me well, if at all, and if he encountered me on the forums, I believe he considered me something of a simp. So don't run around making broad generalizations about stuff like that unless you're sure. Sure, it's great that you took the time to make a wad to share with the community, but that doesn't mean the reviewer owes it to you to write up a review that pads your ego. If you have a problem with a point or two they made, or a lack thereof, take it up in a mature fashion, but don't gripe at the reviewer like a jerk.

[deathz0r]

Liam the Bard said:

After the first few rooms I had a winning strategy in mind: should you run across a much-needed powerup, immediately about face and bolt in the other direction faster than deathz0r's family under attack by rabid wallabies.

Ahh, you still have it in you.

Job said:

A lot of stuff

Yeah, I always try to keep an unbiased opinion of a map, regardless of who made it.

[Fredrik]

None of the traps in Vrack 3 are impossible. The only one you can't coward out with 100% safety through strategy alone is the SSG trap, but even there your chances are good if you enter with armor and 100% health. It's unlikely that you'll make it through the entire map the first time but, heh, that's why those things are called "traps" :P The map is in fact certainly easier than Vrack 2. And you can play it on HMP.

Ammo - difficulty settings here too. There's more than enough ammo to beat it with 100% kills on UV, but you need to know what you're doing. Ammo shouldn't be a problem at all on HMP.

As for repetitive, that's really the last thing I expected the map to be called. Color? Okay :P But gameplay? I'd like to hear an explanation there. In my opinion I managed to create a good flow for the gameplay; starting out sneaky, progressing to bigger and bigger monsters and including several breaks for breathing or playing with a puzzle instead of just gunning stuff down. Breaking the map down into 5-6 chunks, there really aren't two that play the same.

[Szymanski]

udderdude said:

1. Everyone in Doomworld hates stealth monsters, cramped areas and low ammo, even if it's intentional. If a map has even one of these elements they'll treat it like it's a noob's first attempt at making a room full of cybers with a BFG behind them.

There's nothing wrong in any of those design decisions, but cramped areas plus shitloads of monsters is going to limit the appeal of the map.

Dodging a revenants rocket in a 96 unit wide corridor is damn tricky, and I suffered a lot of cheap deaths in schlagwk. I would have liked a playable easy skill option.

[Sporku]

udderdude said:

This is just sad. I click on Jippy's "Old Fogies Of Doom" link, and the immaturity level shoots into orbit.

"CAN YOU BELEIVE IT?!?!!!!11

I maed a level and psoted it on the internet and no one liked it!!!!!!11

WTF??????!

my map is a good level it rules all other maps anyone who doesn't like my map is a stupid dumb retard stupid moran!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

and for the rest of you who loves it, just wait for my newest map coming out soon. 3000 enemies in one cramped corrador. It will be the best map evar!"

If this is the kind of crap I'm to expect when I release a map and try to get some comments from it, I should probabally just upload them to /newstuff and forget about checking doomworld.com alltogether. Christ.

Well.. uh.. gee. Maybe it is INTENTIONALLY like that, to make fun of n00bs, or something of that sort? Why the hell are you picking at his site anyway? I mean, are you trying to find some sort of fault just so you can make yourself feel better or something? Sure looks like it.

Go ahead and leave. I'm pretty sure nobody will miss you.

[Udderdude]

Job said:

Sure, it's great that you took the time to make a wad to share with the community, but that doesn't mean the reviewer owes it to you to write up a review that pads your ego. If you have a problem with a point or two they made, or a lack thereof, take it up in a mature fashion, but don't gripe at the reviewer like a jerk.

I didn't expect anyone to pad my ego with some fluffy 'Oh it's great' review. I know not everyone is going to like it. But I didn't expect this either :

"I hate cramped areas, and this WAD is full of them. Not to mention it has an illegal MP3, but hey, Ty doesn't care!"

This is not a review. Liam wrote a review. Ultimate Doomer wrote a review (Last week). deathz0r wrote one line of bitching about cramped spaces and illegal MP3s.

[Fletcher`]

And no mention of my review. I see how you are. :P

[Ichor]

Mine too, but it was way back at the beginning of this thread, and it was fairly short and easily missed.

[RjY]

After Vrack2, there were months of hype (remember that old DW update "Fredrik needs a new computer as his current machine is not up to the task of editing vrack3"), a few screenshots of ceilings more complex than the sistine chapel (who said "you play the game on the floor, Fred"?) then an ever lengthening time in which nothing happened. In the meantime other maps of amazing complexity have appeared; the obvious examples being those of P:AR. V3 was never going to have the same impact.

Having said that it's still very, very good and will make most people's "most important releases of the year" lists. Thanks man.

[Jippy]

AgentSpork said:

Well.. uh.. gee. Maybe it is INTENTIONALLY like that, to make fun of n00bs, or something of that sort?

Yeah, I don't expect n00bs to understand the fact that they're the 'target' audience of that site.. and by target, I mean target of ridicule.

Life's little ironies I suppose.

Anyway.. Just played Vrack 3. It was tres nacho. And as one of those SP fanatics, I have to agree that it's one of the better SP maps I've played in a while.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Udderdude, I quite enjoyed your wad. I was kept right on my toes throughout, and I had to be quite tactical as well (and in some cases it was brinkmanship). I finished with 62% health, 160% armour, 24 shells and 40 cells so the balance wasn't too bad. The tune rocks too (but it's not drum'n'bass, too slow for that) and fits the map well.

I think the experienced demo recorders (not me 'cos I'm a n00b in that area) will have a good time with it.

[deathz0r]

udderdude said:

This is not a review.

Well shit, I gave up in frustration because of how annoying the battles were. I only reviewed what I saw of Spork's map up to the Hell Knight pit, because I always died there.

[cycloid]

let me see...

kaiser_4

cramped, twisty, made up mainly of small rooms with lots of switches to press, as well as pointless dead ends, with no idea of what is happening apart from the assurance that monsters will be springing up behind you at every step


vrack_3

cramped, twisty, made up mainy of small platforms and areas cordoned off by miniscule fences and cardboard boxes to creating a confusing state where you think you're in a large room but cant actually move especially considering the hoards of monsters springing up behind you at everystep


Schlagwerk

cramped, so cramped infact that you bang your head on several parts of the cieling while totally failing to make any progress forward, let alone circle strafe, due to the vast armies of revenants that magically appear behind you at every step



all in all a nice degree of variation on gameplay this week:

1. enter room
2. pull switch/pick up item
3. one thousand monsters appear from nowhere
4. battle to the death with no room to actually move
5. repeat


some of the bits of the maps were pretty, though...

[boris]

cycloid said:

all in all a nice degree of variation on gameplay this week:

1. enter room
2. pull switch/pick up item
3. one thousand monsters appear from nowhere
4. battle to the death with no room to actually move
5. repeat

Congratulations! You just discovered Doom's gameplay!