17 things you may not know about Doom 3

[Lectrix]

Can we not accept that ID know what they are doing, its their game, their story, they can turn it into aliens if they want it makes no difference to me coz you can't please everyone. I trust that ID will make an ace game, if you want a story read the novels or wait for the film (dreading the film though, look at mortal kombat (YUCK!)) :P

But you never know, the story might be brilliant once weve been through it and understand it in full, rather than making hunch's thats its gonna be cheese fest (hmmm note: make mod for doom 3 so zombies bleed cheese).

[dsm]

Scabbed Angel said:
Eh. Also the whole history lesson seems pretty lame, no offense dsm. I want to be freaked out, and the thought that the demons were beaten by fucking martians seems really. . . dumb.

We don't know if they're Martians - in fact, it seems like their enemy represented Good, which could very well be Angels (a worthy foe indeed) and it happened millenia ago - who's to say if the demons haven't grown stronger since? Just because there are traces of this "enemy of the demons" on Mars doesn't necessarily make them "Martians".

Also, no offence, but I think it's rather silly to judge the story already - we barely know anything yet for Pete's sake. Relax, give it a chance.

I think things are more frightening when you just don't know. Like the first Alien movie. Its scarier because nothing is explained.

What's the point in having a story if things aren't explained in it? With that attitude, I'm surprised you weren't disappointed when they announced that Doom 3 will have an in-depth story.
And who says everything is explained? All we know so far is that someone, or something countered the demons once and probably defeated them temporarily. We still don't know the origin of the demons - just like we don't know the origin of the Xenomorph in the Alien movies.

GAH! Why id, why? Also the idea that they are experiementing on demons is. . um.. intersting and all, but I thought that the gateway was to somewhere else, and the dumb fuckers accidentally opened the Gates of Hell. This is all very disapointing to me. It takes away a lot from the feeling of the original Doom, IMO.

Experimenting on demons is indeed interesting, but I hate the idea of UAC operatives seemingly knowing about Hell even before the invasion. The suggestion that they extracted demons from Hell long before the invasion, in your own words: is just...dumb. I'd have thought that this would be provocation enough for the demons to launch an assault, but they didn't... not until humans destroyed one of their gates.

I agree with the stuff about the gates and how they only destroy a hellish gateway - I dislike this a lot myself.

All in all, I can understand your views and opinions (I just disagree with them), but I'd still urge you to keep an open mind. I doubt we've been given much more than a fraction of the whole story and judging a story on fragments is 'dangerous'. The story could turn out to be so much different than what we expect, despite those small hints we've been given.

[Tyockell]

deathbringer said:

When doom 3 was first announced i thought the hell levels might be a bit like the 'void' level in Requiem: avenging angel (a game which only me and my brother semm to have even heard of), ie pulsating, bleeding tunnels of organs with agonised moans and screams constantly echoing down them, and people with horrific wounds laying around who are unable to die, just scream and beg for mercy

Now thats my idea of hell man lol.

[Scabbed Angel]

dsm said:

We don't know if they're Martians - in fact, it seems like their enemy represented Good, which could very well be Angels (a worthy foe indeed) and it happened millenia ago - who's to say if the demons haven't grown stronger since? Just because there are traces of this "enemy of the demons" on Mars doesn't necessarily make them "Martians".

Oh dear God, dsm, you managed to make it worse! Angels?! Haa haa haa, that sucks. (If its the case) Like I said, it won't make me hate the game or not buy it, hence:

Scabbed Angel said:

What's wrong with having an honest opinion? That idea is cheesy. I'm not saying that I won't buy and love D3, or "OMG D00m is teh suXx lOL!!1" Just that my opinion of the plot line is not that great. Chill out dude. : )

dsm said:Also, no offence, but I think it's rather silly to judge the story already - we barely know anything yet for Pete's sake. Relax, give it a chance.[/B]

Everyone forms an opinion of any news they're heard. I just hope this is very well implemented. Can you argue that not knowing a history of the demons would (inthe classic formula of horror and common sense) would make it overall more frightening, or at least a little? Its the fear of the unknown.

dsm said:What's the point in having a story if things aren't explained in it? With that attitude, I'm surprised you weren't disappointed when they announced that Doom 3 will have an in-depth story.
And who says everything is explained? All we know so far is that someone, or something countered the demons once and probably defeated them temporarily. We still don't know the origin of the demons - just like we don't know the origin of the Xenomorph in the Alien movies.[/B]

No, the take me wrong. If the story exaplained betrayal on the base or more of the human back story, obviously that is much better than just a lot of killing. I just think that it takes away from the fright factor of the demons, that's all. The demons came from hell, the aliens came from space : ) That's all we need to know, any more IMO is overkill. Interesting overkill, but a piece of shit with a ribbon on it is ultimately a piece of shit, am I wrong?

dsm said:Experimenting on demons is indeed interesting, but I hate the idea of UAC operatives seemingly knowing about Hell even before the invasion. The suggestion that they extracted demons from Hell long before the invasion, in your own words: is just...dumb. I'd have thought that this would be provocation enough for the demons to launch an assault, but they didn't... not until humans destroyed one of their gates.[/B]

I agree, the demons should be (which is the whole basis of my argument) unknown. If the sceintists already knew that they were opening a gate of hell it seems to take away from the chaos of it all. The "accient" part.

dsm said:All in all, I can understand your views and opinions (I just disagree with them), but I'd still urge you to keep an open mind. I doubt we've been given much more than a fraction of the whole story and judging a story on fragments is 'dangerous'. The story could turn out to be so much different than what we expect, despite those small hints we've been given. [/B]

And I thank you for an intelligent, mostly unoffensive, mature argument. I can't prove your wrong, I can only explain the basis of my opnions better. I will most definately keep an open mind, and in the grnd scheme of the game, that won't have too much of an effect on me. When the Cyberdemon steps out in all its glory, I can assure you that my disappointments in the "martian battle" thing will be the last thing from my mind ; )

[dsm]

Scabbed Angel said:
(If its the case) Like I said, it won't make me hate the game or not buy it, hence:

I never doubted that - I only tried to heighten your spirits (but failed miserably, heh).

Everyone forms an opinion of any news they're heard. I just hope this is very well implemented. Can you argue that not knowing a history of the demons would (inthe classic formula of horror and common sense) would make it overall more frightening, or at least a little? Its the fear of the unknown.

You're absolutely right, however, I feel that the demons will be plenty scary on their own. The reason I like this story aspect, is that it brings about a lot of mystique into the Doom universe - hopefully something we can build onto with mods and stuff. I tend to focus on the postive sides of things, but you're right; storywise, it'd be scarier if there wasn't revealed anything about the past of the demons.

The demons came from hell, the aliens came from space : ) That's all we need to know, any more IMO is overkill. Interesting overkill, but a piece of shit with a ribbon on it is ultimately a piece of shit, am I wrong?

While I agree that all we really need to know is that the demons came from Hell, I don't think it's overkill to add to the mythos - it's definitely different (and not always to the best), but if done right, it'd be excellent and will take the whole thing to a new level.

And I thank you for an intelligent, mostly unoffensive, mature argument. I can't prove your wrong, I can only explain the basis of my opnions better.

...which you have done most admirably. Well done, you've made your views clear and understandable to me ;-)
Hm "mostly unoffensive"...I need to get all my responses to people up to "entirely unoffensive" :-P

[Scabbed Angel]

dsm said:

I never doubted that - I only tried to heighten your spirits (but failed miserably, heh).

No, not at all. I'm sure it won't be as bad as it could be... (its id afterall) just my not completely my preference, strangely enough as id software is under my command with my immense fortune and all . . . heh

dsm said:

You're absolutely right, however, I feel that the demons will be plenty scary on their own.

I cannot argue that point, if nothing's changed from the alpha in terms of "piss in your pants" factor.

dsm said:

While I agree that all we really need to know is that the demons came from Hell, I don't think it's overkill to add to the mythos - it's definitely different (and not always to the best), but if done right, it'd be excellent and will take the whole thing to a new level.

...which you have done most admirably. Well done, you've made your views clear and understandable to me ;-)
Hm "mostly unoffensive"...I need to get all my responses to people up to "entirely unoffensive" :-P

J/K dsm : P, and the kinder, friendlier verson, (perhaps dsm 2.666 Now with a pleasant lavender scent!) is much more effective in arguments. A little shocking though, but in that "Marilyn Manson handing out flowers and wearing a tie dye promoting peace and eternal love and harmony" sort of way.

[Zoorado]

Yes, there will be a backstory to support the events in the game, but it is up to the player to unravel it. If you're not interested in the plot, you can skip it altogether.

[DeAdLy_cOoKiE]

Are all monsters doing a return in Doom III?

Haven't seen any screenshots of for instance, the Cacao-Demon. This is one of my favorites, and should definately be in the game.

And yes it's a bit of a shame that the monsters AI don't respond to shadows, or at least one or two types of monsters.

[toxicfluff]

Isn't the Doom3 story written by the 7th Guest guy (who was formerly connected to ID software years ago?). If so, it doesn't bode awfully well - 7th guest's story was pretty bad in my opinion, apart from the Stauf Faust anagram, which gave the story away before I'd even completed the game (nice idea though).

Zoorado said:

Yes, there will be a backstory to support the events in the game, but it is up to the player to unravel it. If you're not interested in the plot, you can skip it altogether.

That sounds good.

[toxicfluff]

deathbringer said:

When doom 3 was first announced i thought the hell levels might be a bit like the 'void' level in Requiem: avenging angel (a game which only me and my brother semm to have even heard of), ie pulsating, bleeding tunnels of organs with agonised moans and screams constantly echoing down them, and people with horrific wounds laying around who are unable to die, just scream and beg for mercy

I fucking downloaded this, but it needed directX 5 :(

//Edit: Fuck me I double posted, had the same thread open twice. God-DAMN.

[dsm]

ToXiCFLUFF said:

Isn't the Doom3 story written by the 7th Guest guy (who was formerly connected to ID software years ago?). If so, it doesn't bode awfully well - 7th guest's story was pretty bad in my opinion, apart from the Stauf Faust anagram, which gave the story away before I'd even completed the game (nice idea though).

You must remember that writers evolve their skills - it's a bad idea to judge a writer from *one* of his works, because he might have written other pieces that are far better and since The 7th Guest is a rather old game, he could have become far better since then.

Never tried 7th Guest btw, what was bad about it? Last I asked this, somebody just said that "the story makes no sense" (which doesn't help me understand what exactly is shitty about it) - but what if that person simply weren't able to understand the finer points of the story?
It happens oh-so-often that people claim a story is shitty and then it just turns out that it's because it's too complex for them to understand - that's why I'm a bit in the defensive mode here.

[toxicfluff]

Let's face it though, most video game stories are not "too complex to understand" and are not even as complicated as your average hollywood blockbuster.

The 7th guest would make perfect sense, if you finish it. But, please don't insult my intelligence - it's not a complicated story. I mean, when I first finished it at 13 I thought the writing was hammy. But with something like a story there is so many different factors and nuances it can be difficult to list exactly what was wrong, and sometimes you don't even know exactly. Note here though, I didn't say it was awful - I really enjoyed the 7th guest (always been a fan of puzzle games and anything supernatural).

I guess though, I'm not overly optimistic for story quality in most games (apart from RPG's) being much good for a while. On one hand, things are getting better, like in Max Payne 2, but on the other they are just trying to mimic hollywood. Which means overwrought stories, dumbed down for all audiences to undertstand with no sniff of subtlety anywhere. Hopefully though, the game industry will go the natural way of things at some point and we'll see a more independent sector of the games industry, like there is with alternative music or film. That's if piracy hasn't murdered trhe industry by then.

[deathbringer]

Are all monsters doing a return in Doom III?

Haven't seen any screenshots of for instance, the Cacao-Demon. This is one of my favorites, and should definately be in the game.

Probably because theyre holding back screenshots of certian monsters until the game actually comes out, so people can find stuff out for themselves

I fucking downloaded this, but it needed directX 5 :(

So it wont work with 9.1?, damn i was thinking of re-installing it

Oh wait, vice city and max payne 2 need to be re-installed every time you want to play them, so 9.1 isnt exactly trustworthy

[The_Tonx]

deathbringer said:

So it wont work with 9.1?, damn i was thinking of re-installing it

Oh wait, vice city and max payne 2 need to be re-installed every time you want to play them, so 9.1 isnt exactly trustworthy

DirectX 9.1? Where did you got that? The latest version of DirectX is 9.0b from Microsoft's website :/

And, BTW, Vice City and Max Payne 2 works fine for me. I have DX90b. I don't think that it has anything to do with DirectX that you have to re-install them everytime you want to play one of them :/

[dsm]

ToXiCFLUFF said:
Let's face it though, most video game stories are not "too complex to understand" and are not even as complicated as your average hollywood blockbuster.

You're probably right, but my experience tells me never to rule anything out. And I do have a quite clear memory of games where I found the story confusing.

The 7th guest would make perfect sense, if you finish it. But, please don't insult my intelligence - it's not a complicated story.

Why do people always assume I insult their intellect? I didn't mean to suggest that you're dumber than me - I merely suggested the possibility that maybe the story was just weird (everyone can misunderstand a story - it's happened to me plenty of times). I don't think I'm smarter than you, though I believe that you are as human as I am (which mean that you aren't perfect and as such, you are as capable of making mistakes and misunderstanding things as I am).

I'm really sorry if I came across as rude, but I just tried to make you see things from a greater perspective.

I mean, when I first finished it at 13 I thought the writing was hammy. But with something like a story there is so many different factors and nuances it can be difficult to list exactly what was wrong, and sometimes you don't even know exactly. Note here though, I didn't say it was awful - I really enjoyed the 7th guest (always been a fan of puzzle games and anything supernatural).

It's my experience that people perceive things differently when they're younger, but you may be right. I'm not questioning your judgement because I believe that you aren't smart enough to understand the story, I'm merely opening up the possibility that this could have been a rare occassion in which you didn't understand a crucial point as this is something that has happened to me and which could just as well have happened to you (I've experienced dismissing a story because I misunderstood it - later I realized that it was actually a cool story).

But as I said, I haven't experienced the story myself (read the plot outline though and it seemed fairly decent enough, considering the concept), so what I'm saying or suggesting may be completely retarded after all.

I guess though, I'm not overly optimistic for story quality in most games (apart from RPG's) being much good for a while.

I can understand that - I myself only judge a game's story on the basis of other game stories.
Like: If Doom 3's story turns out less corny than RtCW's story, I'll consider the story a success. I don't expect something truly ground breaking, but I do hope the story feels true to the original and has the right feel (of course, opinions on what "the right Doom feel" is tend to differ - and like all Doom fans, I hope the story will resemble my own interpretation of the Doom universe the most).

But just for the record: My usual goal when disagreeing with people who show disappointment about the direction Doom 3 is headed is not to diss the people, rather I want to try and show them the positive sides (sadly, I tend to get carried away and involving my fanaticism a bit too much).
Again: I'm sorry if I came across as abusive in any way.

[deathbringer]

DirectX 9.1? Where did you got that? The latest version of DirectX is 9.0b from Microsoft's website :/

Microsoft's website hehe

Argh, ive gone to find the download and they have replaced 9.1 with 9.0b now heh..oh well, maybe i should install it and see if max payne/vice city/sof 2/zdoom/jdoom/notepad/space invaders/pong work properly now

[The_Tonx]

deathbringer said:

Microsoft's website hehe

Argh, ive gone to find the download and they have replaced 9.1 with 9.0b now heh..oh well, maybe i should install it and see if max payne/vice city/sof 2/zdoom/jdoom/notepad/space invaders/pong work properly now

What's wrong with Microsoft's website? :D

Notepad won't work either? LOL

Anyways, Notepad and jDoom work well for me, don't know about the others.. Probably they work too :)

And.. That's offtopic :p

[Melfice]

DSM said:

Why do people always assume I insult their intellect?

Its because you talk so much and use big words ;)

And yes, you're very correct in trying to show people the brighter side of things, or the good over the bad, if its there. I go around saying people seem to do nothing but bitch and whine at times, but when you think about it, its essentially true, as people often times take something that they don't know if they like or not and assume the worst of it. Human nature, I know, but it tends to get annoying and repetitive :P

[toxicfluff]

DSM: I must've worded my post wrongly somewhere - I'm not that easily offended, and I certainly didn't find your response lude, rude or crude :) Although referring back, other people may have assumed you were insulting their intelligence when you use phrases like "greater perspective."

Anyway, with the 7th Guest I have had the benefit of repeated plays. As for game stories being confusing, upon reflection I have encountered this before, but mainly in games with quite inane connections between events and ideas and/or poor Japanese translations. Also, a good story should be good all through IMO, and not rely on one event although I suppose that is another discussion entirely. I can understand your attitude towards game stories, but I have a harsher attitude towards these things in that I treat a story as a story - regardless of surrounding standards and it's parent format a story is kind of abstract for me and therefore I just look at it in terms of it's intrinsic merits.

Melfice said:

I go around saying people seem to do nothing but bitch and whine at times

And do you know what that is....?

[Melfice]

And I also said its human natures. Some tend to do it much more than others, which is when it has a tendency to get annoying.

[banned...]

lots of info here....rulez!.

(AvengeR)

[ob3kenob]

I've read the whole thread down to here, and it seems as if no one likes the story much. I agree: too many ambiguities, too many loopholes. It seems as if the guys at id must have sat around one day playing a "Hey, how about this?" story generation game, then someone said, Allright, time's up, we'll go with what we've got - nobody's going to care about the story, anyway."

Obviously, we do care about the story. Without a believable story, at least to get things started (and from then on each player makes his own story as he/she plays through the game), it's hard to get into the spirit of the thing. I think id's going overboard with the details. The story line of the original Doom is good enough for me, and works a lot better than all this other stuff.

In a nutshell: 'Marine gets sent to lockup for severly damaging a superior officer; Marine is offered a chance to redeem himself by volunteering for a maybe fatal assignment; Marine arrives on Demos and sneaks into the UAC compound, only to find all Hell breaking loose, literally, because an experiment in wormhole travel has gone wrong; Marine kills, kills, kills.'

Enough, right? OK, let's shoot something!

If you have to have a single devisive way to win the game, having the Marine return from Hell to the UAC base on Demos and blowing it up, thereby destroying the portals, seems like a good enough way. Maybe the Marine can discover something in Hell that will put paid to the base in one mind-bending supernatural BOOOOOOOM. And that will be the end of that.

Well, except for the hellspawn on Earth that need to be mopped up, and the appearance of other portals on Mars, on the Moon, and so on, that the hellspawn have set up on their own... Sequals, anyone?

Take note, id! Remember the old oriental saying: KISS ("Keep It Simple, Stupid!)

[Skeletor]

i imagine the soulcube as....well i dont have an image of what the weapon will look like, but i imagine the projectile from the soulcube as the things that the last boss of doomII(technically romero) shoots out of whereever, and when it lands it reveals a monster, but the soulcube weapon might....kill the monsters by trapping them in the cube somehow? corny thought, i know. it's just that the projectile from the doomII boss is a cube.

[dsm]

Skeletor said:

i imagine the soulcube as....well i dont have an image of what the weapon will look like, but i imagine the projectile from the soulcube as the things that the last boss of doomII(technically romero) shoots out of whereever, and when it lands it reveals a monster, but the soulcube weapon might....kill the monsters by trapping them in the cube somehow? corny thought, i know. it's just that the projectile from the doomII boss is a cube.

I doubt it'd be like this. As far as I've heard, it's the only weapon that can hurt a certain boss, meaning the weapon is lethal - it does not trap enemies.

It might drain the enemies' life essence or something, but how it'd gonna go about it, I've no idea.

[Enjay]

NiGHTMARE said:

9) All Hellspawn can see in the dark, "because they're from the depths of Hell. They can smell your fear."

Bah! Fear, what fear? They'll never see me. The only way they'll detect me is by identifying an area totally devoid of fear. :-)

Ahem.

[ob3kenob]

"Only the dead know no fear." -- Ibid

[Mr. Woot]

well all in all it sounds worth dishing out a portion of my wallet, perhaps i was wrong to doubt ID software, i'll give it a try...

[TH-555]

a bit off-topic, can anyone link me a good pic of a hellspawn?

[Fredrik]

Hellspawn = any monsters from hell.

[chilvence]

Just theorising about something. They said that the demons only invaded when they had a good excuse to, that they could have done it at any time.

What if they hadnt invaded just because they were busy slugging it out with the old enemy - then suddenly some puny marines gate in, shoot up a few demons and take away some samples to look at. They get very pissed off, think "well I can spare five minutes to decimate this insolent species", and voila, Mars invasion.

Then you, the player, become the lone marine that tips the balance, and causes hell to be overrun by its enemy.