Fragport: forum demo project

[The Ultimate DooMer]

VinceDSS said:

Is this demopack closed ? I see that the latest post is rather old.

No, it's just been dead since Hell Revealed 2 came out...

btw don't do maps 29 or 30, as they're not demo-friendly yet. They will be before the end of the week though.

Edit: no it won't, not while my modem refuses to work.

[VinceDSS]

Jdoom is not suitable for recording demos... I would recommend banning it from any doom demos site.

So I'll stick to prboom, legacy or even doom2.exe w/o sound (winXP) if the maps allow it.

But 1st I have to find a map I like since I never played this wad b4.

and as far as I understand, the policy of this wad is "pick a map and record it nobody will annoy you"... thats pretty cool, thats what hr2 lacked.

[cycloid]

ok i'm having a go at 25 (arena 11) though looking at it in a map editor the teleporter from the start area to the weapons area seems a bit pointless as it doesnt open until you're already there! no good for extra weaponry. there arent enough rockets to use them for a maxdemo (unless one gets lucky with the infighting or dares a fast max, perhaps) so the max will have to use the ssg, which i did in under 4 minutes in degreeless mode. first though i'm just going to go for speed, using the RK, which could be under a minute depending on what gets in the way!

as for other maps, generally they have cybers and or spider masterminds and or lots of archviles, not my cup of tea!

[VinceDSS]

well, ahem.... demopacks are supposed to be max demos...

[The Ultimate DooMer]

cycloid said:

ok i'm having a go at 25 (arena 11) though looking at it in a map editor the teleporter from the start area to the weapons area seems a bit pointless as it doesnt open until you're already there! no good for extra weaponry. there arent enough rockets to use them for a maxdemo (unless one gets lucky with the infighting or dares a fast max, perhaps) so the max will have to use the ssg, which i did in under 4 minutes in degreeless mode. first though i'm just going to go for speed, using the RK, which could be under a minute depending on what gets in the way!

That's the idea - you have to choose one weapon only (no teleporting back to get another) to fight the arena with, and one of four entrances to the arena. At the end, you go back outside to the big hallway and enter the next arena - kinda like a hub. (btw: did you explore the bits outside the arena? You might want to)

There's enough ammo to kill everything no matter which weapon you choose - extra ammo is inside the arena for chaingun/shotgun (as there's enough rockets at the start).

[cycloid]

there's not enough rockets, thus

spiders  5 * 3 rockets = 15
knights 12 * 3 rockets = 36
cacos    8 * 3 rockets = 24

total = 75

rockets in level: 63

even if each caco took two that'd be a total of 67!

as for the side rooms etc they're just too out of the way to be feasible/usefull in a timed run IMO


anyway i've done a speed run (1:30,7th exit,55th attempt) and am working on the max run, here's a link to the speed

http://www.planethalflife.com/uncrossable/personal/cyc/fp25s130.zip

i reccomend someone grab it and look after it as that link wont be there forever!

[cycloid]

ok, heres a uv max 3:33 of map25. i could have done with just one more rocket, heh. it was hard work provoking the infighting in standard uv, on other attempts i've had lots and lots of knights and cacos left. obciously the spideys would be usefull for the infighting, the problem is they're also usefull for cutting me down real quick, which is why i take them out first.

http://www.planethalflife.com/uncrossable/personal/cyc/fp25m333.zip

[Kristian Ronge]

Exciting stuff! I like close calls (health-wise)...

[cycloid]

heh, i do do a lot of damage to myself with the RL in both runs though. the timed one could easily (sic) be done reality i reckon, it'd just take some time. as for the max demo i must have lost a minute just jumping of ledges and running around corners to dodge fireballs etc. heh. i especially like the moment that two slimeballs cross paths an inch in front of my nose, how i dodged those only my fingers know :-)

in the max run i lost most of 85% health right at the start because i got trapped in a load of cacos, but only because the bloody arachnotron didnt die from 3 rockets and needed 4, bah. the other 8 i lost was splash damage from my own rockets

in the speed run i lost time when after hitting the red switch i just sort of, fell off instead of heading straight for the blue switch, heh.


so room for improvement in both. though i think i know how to herd the arachnos a bit and doa a better max using those to take some stuff down. of i tried fast max a bit too and that was just too darned daft!

[cycloid]

i've had 3 further max exits, all with the ssg and all in the 3:40 to 4:00 range. i just seem to spend forever herding and shooting. suppose i'll have some more goes with the RL, try not to splash damage myself so much, plus i think i have a better route. the infightings just proving difficult to provoke!

[VinceDSS]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

btw don't do maps 29 or 30, as they're not demo-friendly yet. They will be before the end of the week though.

oh yeah, I was going to post about these 2 maps, I was thinking "Where the **** are these weapons ?"

Have you fixed these maps already ?

[The Ultimate DooMer]

I have fixed them, but since my modem went I've not been able to upload it yet. I've got a new one in now, but I'm thinking of waiting till next week's newstuff to ensure it doesn't get a mention. Also, I'm thinking of playing it again to ensure it's ok to record on all the maps (that's what happens when you build a megawad before joining the community proper). Finally, see below.

Cycloid: I'm thinking of putting a few more rockets in map 25 for the update, is this ok with you? (knowing it will invalidate the demos you've done so far)

[Grazza]

I've put Cycloid's map25 demos in the usual place.

I'd suggest leaving map25 as it is, since it is quite nicely balanced now, in terms of the choice of weapon at the start. If you choose the SSG, it takes a bit longer but you have no problem with ammo shortage. If you choose the RL, you probably need to pistol the last monster or two, but it should be a bit quicker overall (I think - a real SSG expert might prove me wrong). Adding more rockets would make the RL very clearly the best option, which I suspect wasn't your intention when giving the player this choice of weapons.

[ragnew]

So would it be cool if I tried a couple of these maps? I was thinking of doing maps 24 and 26? Is this okay?

[VinceDSS]

oh, i just recorded map03 (crappy 7:14) and map26 (ok 1:44)... well I am sorry for 26 richie :(
I was thinking about giving a try at map27 too.

I'll redo map03 it really sux. And those rail tracks are just plain annying :)

Who should I send the demos ? (attachement option pitifully crashes)

[ragnew]

Hehe - No problemo Vince... So, is Prboom 2.2.4 one of the ports people are using? Hmmm, maybe I should look at page one again... :)

[Grazza]

Yes, sadly attachments have been screwed up for a few months now, and there is no solution imminent. You can mail them to me (my e-mail address can be found in the text-file accompanying any of my demos).

ragnew: Yes, that would indeed be cool (except map26, obviously).

[cycloid]

yeah, i think i'll agree with graz here. adding more rockets would only cater to my desire to make a max run as fast as my current speed run, heh, not neccesarily a good thing, after all you could just go ahead and stick a bfg in there :-)

i've tried the max with both ssg and rockets and they're both about the same. however the rocket run should be faster it just depends how lucky you are with the infighting (read: if you're brave enough to try a -fast/nigtmare run), as it stands though i'm satisfied with my demo's for the time being, though if i'd run out of pistol ammo in that max run i might have resorted to throwing my shoes at things :-)

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Have you tried with the chaingun yet?

And did you actually kill everything when trying with rockets?

And are you getting the supercharge/mega-armour from the rooms outside before you go in?

after all you could just go ahead and stick a bfg in there :-)

Nope - try map 27 if you want that one (and it's not that easy, trust me)

While we're on the subject of map 27, do you think I should add a 200% health/armour to it, given that they don't exist in this map? (I did that to stop you from coming out at the end and grabbing it then before entering map 28, but given the challenge within the arena I'd imagine it to be near-impossible without them)

[cycloid]

1. yes, it sux
2. yes, with infighting, took a while tho
3. nahh, that's for wimps :-)
4. bfg, nahh, that's for wimps :-) :-)

seriously, it's all ok, jus' watch the demos and see, now on to the next level!

[VinceDSS]

The Ultimate DooMer said:

While we're on the subject of map 27, do you think I should add a 200% health/armour to it, given that they don't exist in this map? (I did that to stop you from coming out at the end and grabbing it then before entering map 28, but given the challenge within the arena I'd imagine it to be near-impossible without them)

I plan to try this one tonight... doesnt seem impossible without the sphere, almost none of the archviles are in opened areas.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

But of course the choice of weapon will greatly influence how you take them on...and you may be forced to take a hit in the process (as I have in the past). And of course there's the big two...

I don't think I've ever come out of that map with more than 150-160% health/armour, starting from 200% (roughly similar to taking 100% damage without armour) - and I always play by the rules of the arena, even though I have all the weapons from previous maps. (mind you, the ammo balance in maps 23-24 is deliberately set up to reduce your ammo to a minimum before the arenas, so I usually have very little ammo upon entering map 25)

[VinceDSS]

does it mean 23-24 are not very demo friendly beocz of lack of ammo ?

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Possibly but I dunno yet, I'll find out when I play it over the next 2 or 3 days. (but with a free chainsaw in every map you've always got a chance)

[VinceDSS]

as long as your map has a chainsaw and a berserk... I can face anything but a cyber if the map is not to overloaded :)

[VinceDSS]

completed map27 in 1:09 ... so sphere and armor are not needed...
And they would generate a huge loss of time.

EDIT : mailed all 3 demos to Grazza

[The Ultimate DooMer]

That's only a speed run I bet...what about a max run?

[VinceDSS]

no it's a max kill demo... ask grazza

[Grazza]

I haven't received them yet. Please check your PMs.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

I've played up to map 19 so far - map 10 needs a little more ammo and a slight repositioning of a rad suit (so it's not blocking the secret plasma gun), and map 18 could do with a touch more ammo. Updates will come once I've played the rest.

(I finished both maps with a few bullets left only, and in map 18 I chainsawed a couple of spiders with the new ZDoom...so some ammo will be needed to kill those in other ports)

Some of the maps rock from a pistol start though... (particularly the city ones)