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Arioch

Hell Revealed, Again

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I'm not sure this can happen if you're not in god mode

I'd say it's highly unlikely. There's the possibility that someone could use this as a shortcut(grab the Invulnerability and jump to the switch), but outside of TAS it would be ridiculously difficult.

Congratulations on finding the first possible shortcut I missed. :-)

That's MAP15, BTW...

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There's another bug - in map 32, the traps attached to the switches on the baron towers don't always go off when you press them.

BlackFish said:

the only problem I have about hr2 is that for some reason plut2 map03(I think) is in this wad. Otherwise the megawad is excellent.


Yep, map 08 of Plutonia II to be precise, but the HR version has different texturing, some layout differences and of course harder gameplay.

Opulent said:

Real authors still make wads for the real game.
port support of any kind is just gravy.
besides, if there is something that a port cannot do that DOOM can, then I'd say the port is broken.
this is still DOOMworld.com, not ZDOOMworld.com.


No such thing, we're all authors and therefore real as they come.

(so everyone who makes source port maps is inferior to those who make 'classic' maps and big name megawads designed for speedrunning? No wonder other wads/authors are less popular if that's the gold standard)

Besides it's not entirely vanilla friendly, as many maps are too big for savegames and some cause HOM'S and visplane crashes. (eg. there's at least one place with the F_SKY1 on floor and ceiling with fake horizon as well - big problems in vanilla IIRC. All those 3D bridges in open areas are bound to cause trouble, too)

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Playing with saves on UV right now, finished up to MAP12. MAP12's ending was particularly bitchy, 9 arch-viles, I kinda ignored them and did a speedrun to the exit. On MAP07 for some reason tag 667 didn't work (this is in jDoom), so I had to do a trickjump over the gap to the next area there :-)

Back to the fray.

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Szymanski said:

thank god for skill 1 :)

Indeed. I'm now at map13 and so far it's a blast! Very fun to play, interesting traps and puzzles and so far without any annoyingly hard parts.

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Schneelocke said:

In one of the early levels (5 or so, I can check which one exactly), I got stuck after being blown away by a couple of arch-viles (see the screenshot below) ... This is in ZDoom 2.0.60, btw.

Note that in Zdoom archies blast you much higher into the air than they do in the original game (or in any other port, as far as I am aware), so that might be relevant - it might not be the map's fault.

BTW, I found a shortcut (presumably unintended) in map16. There is a switch fairly near the start that you have to shoot, and the intended route has you going a long way round so that you are in a position to shoot it. However, you can shoot it directly if you jump off the nearby lift and pelt it with the SSG at the right moment. It ought to be quite useful, though maybe not vitally so in a Max run, since you'll need to go the long way round to get the BFG anyway.

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Adam Hegyi said:

On MAP07 for some reason tag 667 didn't work (this is in jDoom), so I had to do a trickjump over the gap to the next area there :-)


The bridge is raised by a switch, not by the 667 tag.

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Adam Hegyi said:

Ola: yeah, and you get to the switch by killing the arachnos ;-)


Aaah, now I'm with ya... I should know better than trying to pretent I know how to analyze and understand a DOOM map better than you ;)

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the only thing better than the wad is the demos.
thanks guys.
oh, and I know h230 should be under 1:40. :P

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in map 32, the traps attached to the switches on the baron towers don't always go off when you press them.

Baron towers? Could you be a bit more specific(linedef or sector number)?

Besides it's not entirely vanilla friendly, as many maps are too big for savegames and some cause HOM'S and visplane crashes.

Requiem had the same problems and it became a classic. Eventually the complaining died down and people just enjoyed it, as I'm sure will happen here.

(eg. there's at least one place with the F_SKY1 on floor and ceiling with fake horizon as well - big problems in vanilla IIRC.

If you're referring to the floating buildings in MAP14, it's the same trick Yonatan used in Afterlife. It works fine in v1.9, though I couldn't tell you why. Other instances of using sky on floor and ceiling caused problems.


I found a shortcut (presumably unintended) in map16.

I had a feeling this could be done, but was never able to do it myself. Shortcut #2.

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The Ultimate DooMer said:

I like the sky textures...but I'm sure I've seen them before somewhere - where do they originate from?


They're done by me, a loooong time ago. From what I can remember they're computer generated, but one of them might be based on a photo, I'm not sure (they were done in 97-98 I think). Don't think they've been in any other doom projects though.

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Andy Olivera said:

I'd say it's highly unlikely. There's the possibility that someone could use this as a shortcut(grab the Invulnerability and jump to the switch), but outside of TAS it would be ridiculously difficult.

Congratulations on finding the first possible shortcut I missed. :-)

That's MAP15, BTW...


Yes, 15, of course... what was I thinking?

Congratulations for a great release, BTW, and don't worry about the complainers! :)

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Yay! Just finished map10. :) Absolutely fantastic work, guys!

I'm playing on skill3, even though I could probably manage skill4... I just don't want to risk getting too frustrated later on in the game. :)

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Opulent said:

oh, and I know h230 should be under 1:40. :P


/me uploads

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The Ultimate DooMer said:

There's another bug - in map 32, the traps attached to the switches on the baron towers don't always go off when you press them.

I haven't had any problems with the Baron towers. They always lower the minute I warp on top of them. I'm using Prboom 2.2.4 (complevel 0) and Zdoom (latest version) and each time the towers go down without a hitch.

GREAT JOB on making this map more playable!!! I like the minor changes that have taken place. Namely the inability for the viles to warp onto the pillars with the revenants

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OMG, this megawad was awesome!! I played it in coop with some Doom Connector Users, and we had lots of fun!!! We kept crashing, but anyways, HR2 is one of the best megawads I've played. It's also one of the toughest. I am glad that I was able to play it on coop instead of all alone..against so many monsters...>_>

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I hated map 9. If it wasn't for the architecture, I would have sworn that I was playing Mock 2 again.

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Andy Olivera said:

Baron towers? Could you be a bit more specific(linedef or sector number)?


The 8 towers (although they're probably too short and wide to be called that) with the switches and unreachable megaspheres on - the 2 with barons on them. Sometimes the traps will lower, sometimes they won't. (although I am using ZDoom 2.0.47 for system reasons)

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Sometimes the traps will lower, sometimes they won't. (although I am using ZDoom 2.0.47 for system reasons)

Hmm. That's odd. Has it been happening with any of the other traps? I mean, could it be the old problem where you run over them too fast and they don't trigger?

It could be the trigger(Lower To 8 Above Nearest Floor), but then why would it be working intermitently? Weird. Anyone else having similar problems?

BTW, those Megaspheres can be reached. They're lowered briefly by a line at the top of the stairs on the opposite tower.

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Ichor said:

I hated map 9. If it wasn't for the architecture, I would have sworn that I was playing Mock 2 again.


Actually, I really like the concept of map09, and I think it works well.

But "Hardcore" (map11? map12?) looks suspiciously similar to a certain level from the first HR. :)

I truly fear what I'm in store for when I find map32, though. ^^;;

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Ubik said:

But "Hardcore" (map11? map12?) looks suspiciously similar to a certain level from the first HR. :)


Yeah, "Hardcore" is a version of "Dead Progrssive", Hell Revealed MAP25. And it's a little bit easier, too.

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Andy Olivera said:

Hmm. That's odd. Has it been happening with any of the other traps? I mean, could it be the old problem where you run over them too fast and they don't trigger?

It could be the trigger(Lower To 8 Above Nearest Floor), but then why would it be working intermitently? Weird. Anyone else having similar problems?

BTW, those Megaspheres can be reached. They're lowered briefly by a line at the top of the stairs on the opposite tower.


The trap is triggered by switch, so I can't be going over it too fast. The Floor: down to highest +8 is well-known for not working if a monster is touching the ceiling...ah, it could be that old bug where monsters wake up when you can't see them - ZDoom is notorious for that.

BTW thanks for the megasphere info, the map will be a lot easier next time... (as I did it by surviving purely off the ones in the corners)

BTW 2: the railings on the bridges in map 24 are too high to allow rocket fire. (I had to jump to fire them over the railings)

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0-Mephisto-0 said:

Yeah, "Hardcore" is a version of "Dead Progrssive", Hell Revealed MAP25. And it's a little bit easier, too.

For the HR2beta (where it was map08) this was acknowledged by Chrozoron in the text-file:

MAP08: Very inspired by HR-25 (Dead Progressive) which was one of my favorite Hr1 maps! Pretty similar in just about every sense I guess. :)

I don't agree that it is easier than HR map25 (which was one of HR's easier maps, really). If you played Hardcore without having played Dead Progressive previously, I think it would seem much harder than Dead Progressive did first time around.

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Ubik said:

I truly fear what I'm in store for when I find map32, though. ^^;;


Words like "Carnage" and "Slaughterfest" come to mind... :)

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Map21. Wow. Jonas Feragen is probably one of the best mappers ever, in my opinion. Very very nice work.

I bow before you chroz!

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32 is VERY tough!! It kept crashing for us in DC (we were using Legacy, btw), probably because of the many monsters. Eventually, I kept getting spawnkilled by CyberDemons. I think I'd spoil it for you if I told you how many monsters there are, but just be ready to save a lot. And good luck. You'll need it. :-)

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