Holy crap lots of new screenshots

[dsm]

Zoost said:

Sad to see that DSM hijacked this thread with going on (and on and on) about the weapons in D3. Who cares about the weapons when there is much more interesting stuff to discuss (yes IMO) then the color and/or bulkiness of the weapons. You ask me what? I will tell you.

*hides

[Fredrik]

Zoost said:

That is something I would like to discuss. Why is it that in those shots it appears there is more depth, better lighting and more believable textures then in the current screenshots.

It's the low resolution and the blur from the JPEG compression. If you can't see any details because the resolution is low, your brain will imagine they're there. When you view the pic in a high resolution, you get edges and flat texels instead, and your brain can't override what it perceives explicitly. It's the reason why I personally prefer to play Doom in a low resolution (I guess those who don't, just lack imagination ;p).

The Macworld shots would probably not look better than the latest batch if they were of the same quality.

[Zoost]

Fredrik said:

your brain will imagine they're there.

Well have a look at this shot. It is fairly high detail and it still looks better (i think). And if the effect of lower res is improved (perceived) realism, why do software developers crank up the resolution of their games?

[999cop]

dsm said:

The plasma rifle looks weird and way too short and bulky imo, but I'll wait and see until I see the brute ingame.

If you're looking at this shot, I'd say it is quite difficult to make an accurate judgement on that.

[dsm]

999cop said:

If you're looking at this shot, I'd say it is quite difficult to make an accurate judgement on that.

Shhhh, I'm in the doghouse.
But no, I wasn't referring to that shot - I was referring to the one showing the weapon models (it shows the chainsaw, the pistol, the shotgun, the machinegun and the plasma rifle).

Anyway, I'm not going to discuss this further for two reasons:
1. Zoost is gonna unleash the blood hounds on me if I do.
2. Don't wanna get accused of highjacking this thread again - even if I think it's a ridiculous accusation, given the fact that a thread is big enough to discuss multiple elements in-depth.
3. Don't wanna piss people off with my loud-mouthing opinions - it's time I learned to shut up with those.

[Scabbed Angel]

Zoost said:

Well have a look at this shot. It is fairly high detail and it still looks better (i think). And if the effect of lower res is improved (perceived) realism, why do software developers crank up the resolution of their games?

Fuck that, it looks like clay animation, and that monster blows.

dsm said:

Shhhh, I'm in the doghouse.
But no, I wasn't referring to that shot - I was referring to the one showing the weapon models (it shows the chainsaw, the pistol, the shotgun, the machinegun and the plasma rifle).

Anyway, I'm not going to discuss this further for two reasons:
1. Zoost is gonna unleash the blood hounds on me if I do.
2. Don't wanna get accused of highjacking this thread again - even if I think it's a ridiculous accusation, given the fact that a thread is big enough to discuss multiple elements in-depth.
3. Don't wanna piss people off with my loud-mouthing opinions - it's time I learned to shut up with those.

Fuck that dude, you weren't hyjacking the thread, you just brought up another point about the pictues. The thread is big enough for more than one discussion. : )

[Shaviro]

The only difference with the macworld shots and the new shots are that the new ones aren't completely dark.

[dsm]

Scabbed Angel said:

Fuck that dude, you weren't hyjacking the thread, you just brought up another point about the pictues. The thread is big enough for more than one discussion. : )

Well, in that case, allow me to speak openly about something that's been brewing on my mind for the last couple of hours.

I always hear how people want the Doom 3 weapons to be "gritty lowtechy", because the old weapons were. One of the recent comments on weapons even went as far as claiming that the old weapons fit into the environment whereas the new ones don't.

I agree on some things and I disagree on other things.

The old weapons really didn't fit the environment too well when you think about it. They were excellent for the time, but the environments were clearly futuristic, while the weapons had a very modern-tech design to them. I'd say that the most fitting weapons in the old games were in fact the plasma weapons. The others just looked a tad too low-tech imho.

As for the new weapons...Look at the surroundings and the atmosphere. The D3 surroundings are clearly high tech. If the weapons are to fit the surroundings, they'd have to look clearly futuristic. Porting over the old weapons in completely true-to-the-original style, they'd look just as out of place as the old cacodemon would in the new engine.

I will agree with this, though: The Doom 3 weapons need to be low-tech and grungy. Not shiny, "sexy" and filled with neon lights and crap. I think Id managed to do this well. For all of the guns so far.

So basically, I'm pleased with the overall gun designs - that doesn't mean I'm satisfied with every weapon shown so far.

As far as whether weapons mean a lot to you or not: I happen to be very interested in gun designs (not real guns though, but imaginative, fantasy designs) and it always has an impact on me if the guns look and feel cool (sounds, animations, appearance etc.). That's why I discuss it.

My opinion on the game's atmosphere is unchanged. From the very first screenshots showing Doom 3 environments, I've felt that the atmosphere in Doom 3 is gonna be perfect and proper "doomish". But admittedly, some of the new screenshots have exceeded my expectations on this. I love the screenshot with the trites on some railway. The lighting and environment are perfectly intermingled there imo.

Thank you for your time.

[Scabbed Angel]

Shaviro said:

The only difference with the macworld shots and the new shots are that the new ones aren't completely dark.

LOL

[nxn]

Eh, that's one thing, but I wouldn't say it's the only difference. The new ones definatly have a lot more color variation (now areas are definatly less monochrome than in the past), and although I usually love to see color, I think it removes from the scary atmosphere in this case. The new screenshots also seem to be showing a lot of blue textures while the old macworld shots seemed to be mostly dark green. I think I liked the green better because it was more unique, but it's nothing major.

Back when the mac world video was fresh there was only a small handfull of people saying that the game looked good like it was color wise, I know I was one of them. Everyone else bitched that it was too dulled down and monotonous I guess. Well, iD seemed to have heard you all finally, and I really doubt they'd go back to the old style at this point. Yeah, I'm a bit bitter :p

[999cop]

dsm said:

Shhhh, I'm in the doghouse.
But no, I wasn't referring to that shot - I was referring to the one showing the weapon models (it shows the chainsaw, the pistol, the shotgun, the machinegun and the plasma rifle).

Well, I also meant to post the other shot, but I just ran out here posting during lunch time at school. Besides, I didn't think the plasma rifle was one of them in the picture.

edit: for some reason, if this will really be the plasma rifle, it somewhat reminds me of the pulse gun from UT because of its shape and length

[sniperfrommars1]

I think the new designs look better. Its a vastly improved engine and its been improved upon. Youve gotta sit back and realize that your basically looking at the same stuff, aside from the fact that some of the screenshots your seeing arent in game footage but cut scenes.

[Lectrix]

Even though i made a huge mistake early in this thread and shouldn't show my text in public, i'm here to say... can't we just except that the weapons are well designed and should be glad ID decided to bring all the original doom weapons back instead of replacing them all with new weapons similiar to Unreal's batch...

(Saying that, i havent seen the best doom weapon yet = Double Barrel Shotgun)

[Tetzlaff]

Lectrix said:

(Saying that, i havent seen the best doom weapon yet = Double Barrel Shotgun)

I also never *heard* of a Double Barrel Shotgun for Doom3 yet, unfortunately. It wasn´t mentioned in any interview with id, and so far we seem to know about all the Doom3 weapons, even the mysterious Soul Cube is known, but no DB Shotty in sight :(

[insertwackynamehere]

I don't stress to much about whats in Doom 3, because as long as it's fun I'll like it. I can always still play the original Doom, when I want that.

[Zoost]

Scabbed Angel said:

Fuck that, it looks like clay animation, and that monster blows.

Thank you for proving my point. The Tokio 2001 pictures do look like they are clay animations. They have depth and the ligting and material looks good. The more recent pictures look like computer graphics. There is nothing wrong for a game to look like computer graphics but it is not as revolutionary as looking like clay animation!

Especially the MP shot (see ealier in this thread) with the marine holding the torch looks very Quake 3 to me.

Don't get me wrong, I like the D3 sceenshots very much, but I think the early Tokio 2001 were promising more.. Thats it.

[dsm]

Lectrix said:

(Saying that, i havent seen the best doom weapon yet = Double Barrel Shotgun)

A year ago, I'd have been convinced that the D3 shotty was in the game (but kept under wraps) and I'd have been just as eager to have it in the game as almost everyone else, but now I've got different thoughts.

The problem with the db shotgun is that once you get it, you rarely ever use the sb shotgun again (Doom vets still know its uses, but it's still a rare occurence that they pull out and use the sb shotgun after they've obtained the db) - it also makes the game a helluva lot easier.

I think Id wants to make the game harder and scarier - also, let us not forget the struggle between fans who want the db shotgun to be a relic weapon and those who want it to have an updated, futuristic makeover. It may be hard to please both sides and make the db shotgun fit in without turning it into the Quake 2 db shotgun.

Having said that, I haven't given up hope that the db shotgun might return in Doom3, but I must also admit that I'm no longer as interested in the db shotgun as I was, because, as I said, it tends to make things too easy, but also because I'll dislike a relic gun, but I won't be happy about a futuristic db shotty either.

However, I hope there will be an add-on pack for Doom 3 that retells the events in Doom 2, in which the db shotgun will show up again - fancy as a home-made gun (which I believe would fit perfectly in the futuristic and chaotic "Hell-on-Earth" environment), because seriously, an old-fashioned break-barrel db shotgun would look so retarded in Doom 3's techy environment that it'd kinda break the game for me.

/Awaits flames

[999cop]

Got the names from some foreign magazine scans...think it's German?

[dsm]

999cop said:

Got the names from some foreign magazine scans...think it's German?

Yeah, that's good ol' German all right.

Kettensage = Chainsaw

Pistole = Pistol

Pumpgun = Pumpgun (pump-action shotgun)

Maschinengewehr = Machinegun (the more I look at it, the more it looks like a submachinegun to me).

Plasmagewehr = Plasmagun

[Disorder]

Whether you like the new weapons or not, I think it's easy to see that id spent a lot of time making the weapons look like they're from the same era. Good job. I always thought of the old Doom's weapons as if they're combinations from different era's.

[999cop]

dsm said:

Yeah, that's good ol' German all right.

Kettensage = Chainsaw

Pistole = Pistol

Pumpgun = Pumpgun (pump-action shotgun)

Maschinengewehr = Machinegun (the more I look at it, the more it looks like a submachinegun to me).

Plasmagewehr = Plasmagun

um, I'm pretty sure most people who can read either German or English could have figured it out...the point is when you said you dislike about the plasma rifle being too short, I thought you were thinking the other way around that the shortest gun is actually the machine gun, and the plasma rifle, in my opinion, is quite long enough, but looks a bit more like a machinegun to me.

[dsm]

999cop said:

the point is when you said you dislike about the plasma rifle being too short, I thought you were thinking the other way around that the shortest gun is actually the machine gun, and the plasma rifle, in my opinion, is quite long enough, but looks a bit more like a machinegun to me.

It seems short compared to the old plasma rifle. The old one struck me as long and thin - this one is either short or just too bulky (or both!). It basically looks too much like a BFG for me to be totally happy about it (aside from the fact that it doesn't really look anything like the old PR - that's the first Doom 3 gun that's also a rehash of an old Doom gun, which doesn't look even remotely like the original and that just annoys me).

[Lectrix]

But then again, now that i look at that picture i don't think those pictures are to scale, i mean the pistol will need two hands its that big :D

[toxicfluff]

dsm said about the Doom3 PR:
It basically looks too much like a BFG for me to be totally happy about it

Sentiments echoed. I immediately mistook it for a BFG upon first sight.

[Zoost]

Lectrix said:

But then again, now that i look at that picture i don't think those pictures are to scale, i mean the pistol will need two hands its that big :D

The fact that the butt of the gun is set with teak, can only mean that this gun belongs to a high ranked officer. Does this mean the First Person is a high ranked marine?

[999cop]

The machinegun actually looks pretty long in game compared to the officially released screen

[Tyockell]

dsm said:

A year ago, I'd have been convinced that the D3 shotty was in the game (but kept under wraps) and I'd have been just as eager to have it in the game as almost everyone else, but now I've got different thoughts.

The problem with the db shotgun is that once you get it, you rarely ever use the sb shotgun again (Doom vets still know its uses, but it's still a rare occurence that they pull out and use the sb shotgun after they've obtained the db) - it also makes the game a helluva lot easier.

I think Id wants to make the game harder and scarier - also, let us not forget the struggle between fans who want the db shotgun to be a relic weapon and those who want it to have an updated, futuristic makeover. It may be hard to please both sides and make the db shotgun fit in without turning it into the Quake 2 db shotgun.

Having said that, I haven't given up hope that the db shotgun might return in Doom3, but I must also admit that I'm no longer as interested in the db shotgun as I was, because, as I said, it tends to make things too easy, but also because I'll dislike a relic gun, but I won't be happy about a futuristic db shotty either.

However, I hope there will be an add-on pack for Doom 3 that retells the events in Doom 2, in which the db shotgun will show up again - fancy as a home-made gun (which I believe would fit perfectly in the futuristic and chaotic "Hell-on-Earth" environment), because seriously, an old-fashioned break-barrel db shotgun would look so retarded in Doom 3's techy environment that it'd kinda break the game for me.

/Awaits flames

I was hopeing they would slip it into the game somehow realisticly like finding it in a display case in a generals room or something or hell even just a handheld double barrle in his desk.
I dont think it would make it much easyer because first of all most double barrle shotguns are not ment to be fired to barrles at a time as it can split them, and they spread like a mother fucker and would be almost useless on tough enemies with say a hard skin or armour on from a distance.
I'd just like to stick it to an zombies head up close and turn it into hamburger.

[the lone crouton]

ToXiCFLUFF said:

Sentiments echoed. I immediately mistook for a BFG upon first sight.

You're not the only one ;)
How big is th BFG going to be???

[Zoost]

the lone crouton said:

You're not the only one ;)
How big is th BFG going to be???

It's going to be a Big Fucking Gun!

[Mr. Woot]

I wonder how the fist attack will look....