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Opulent

LOH2 released. Damn right, that's cool. [-complevel 9]

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Hehe, the biggest problem I have with generating infighting is I often lose too much health in the process...

I hate going through a lot of trouble conserving ammo and wasting precious medipaks when trying to get a lot of infighting going just to run around the corner afterwards and find a big pile of plasma cells.

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John Gaughan said:

Has anyone tried a cooperative UV run? Not necessarily with more than one player.

I added a ton of extra monsters in cooperative mode. It should be a bit more challenging to get 100% runs.


well, I'd love to record any kind of pwads demos. But my current coop partner, Xit-Vono, is more on the Compet-N coops... the ones that give points :)

If anyone lives in California and wants to make some demos pls contact me :)

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sheeh.... had a couple of hours working on map10. is there a way to tas using prboom? i tried recording and saving and then resuming the demo from saved games, got through in 8:22 that way but it wouldnt play back, kept reloading ALL my attempts sequentially, odd. not tried anything like that before tho, heh.

any way i havent managed an exit yet, by far the biggest pain in the arse is the sheer number of pain elementals in the first room, they generate a LOT of lost souls and generally consume ammo. another issue i have is that, if i were to clean up all the barons as i went along the ammo i would need to clear the final revenants and the archie are in the same hovel that they all come out of. not pleasant. which then means i have to herd the barons around (very time consuming) so i can basically take care of everything else first! heh. i'm sure theres a more efficient way around it all though. me hmz. the plasma gun "area" is a bit of a bummer too with it basicaly being a dead end all the barons i've herded and the new ones that spring up trap me in, unless i run like buggery and hope to get past them all. heh

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cycloid said:

any way i havent managed an exit yet, by far the biggest pain in the arse is the sheer number of pain elementals in the first room, they generate a LOT of lost souls and generally consume ammo. another issue i have is that, if i were to clean up all the barons as i went along the ammo i would need to clear the final revenants and the archie are in the same hovel that they all come out of. not pleasant. which then means i have to herd the barons around (very time consuming) so i can basically take care of everything else first! heh. i'm sure theres a more efficient way around it all though. me hmz. the plasma gun "area" is a bit of a bummer too with it basicaly being a dead end all the barons i've herded and the new ones that spring up trap me in, unless i run like buggery and hope to get past them all. heh


Not sure I understand if your trying to do a TAS demo or a regular max. If your trying to complete a max demo of map 10 I have one I did in early January and can send it. Let me know.

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yeah i'm trying to do a max run, it's just proving difficult, i've gone through with savegames but i feel that a demo run where i can resume from savegames (or however it works) would help as then i'd be able to construct it as i survived/was happy with each "stage" as well as try to work out the best use of rockets/plasma/etc in each section. i might just end up trying and trying until i get it but it's a bit of a bastard this one IMO

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If you want to play with savegames and Doom2.exe compatibility (to work out routes and methods), then you can use Eternity. Alternatively, you could use Prboom 2.02, like I did for my demo on this wad. (I found some odd things happened in that map with Eternity - that might have been just a one-off problem though.)

I don't see too much point recording with saves, since you'd still need to re-record without saves later on (since otherwise it's a TAS demo, and there's little point doing that unless you are going to try to make it somewhere near optimized - i.e. a ton of work).

Still, if you do want to record a TAS demo with standard Prboom, I think it's meant to be possible, but you need to use "complevel -1" - and see README.demos.txt for instructions. Note that all sorts of weird stuff happens by default in that case (but can be turned off), such as enhanced monster AI, weapon recoil, etc.

I'm assuming in the above that pure DOS-based exes aren't an option for you.

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oh that's a point actually. i cant play that map on doom-demo compatibility because the dual-stairs-sectors bug comes up and makes it impossible to get the megasphere. so i've been playing it on -1 because i'm not sure which compatibility option to use (using 2.2.4) so it's probably making my life more difficult than it needs to be. so if i can get a decent compat level i might be able to approach it with more confidence


as for my reasoning behind doing a TAS run i just wanted to do it for myself really to help work the route out. not important really. i'll go away and toy with the complevels a bit. though in my experience all but 0 and -1 desync.

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OK, then I'd suggest Boom 2.02 compatibility. If you don't trust Prboom 2.2.x to emulate that (and you may well have good reason not to), then Prboom 2.02 is a pretty good option. I haven't used it extensively, but it hasn't failed me yet (no desyncs, and it has played back every Boom 2.02 demo that I have thrown at it). No need to set a complevel when recording.

BTW, I haven't found complevel -1 to be very reliable in Prboom 2.2.x.

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right and will i still have to turn off the ai improvements and weapon recoil etc or doesnt that exist in that version?

me downloads

edit:

1. how the fcuk are you supposed to config it? i've sortof got my keybinds in

2. as soon as i open a door and the monsters wake up it quits out with "segmentaion violation"

3. what about the compatibiility options such as recoil in the config, what should i set them to and how will it effect demo playback?

etc.


edit 2: what if i try 2.2.4 with complevel 5, MBF compatibility, seems ok after a shortish test recording, dont think theres any weapon recoil but now i'm paranoid about how the complevel and the compatibilty options interact and if it will make it more diificult than if i was playing with doom2 compatibility especially re: the AI and infighting


edit 3: oh an about those compatibility settings in the config, yes/no. how am i supposed to know which ones, apart from probably the stairs, should be on or off to make it more like doom is normally?

help!

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Actually, I have just tested it with Prboom 2.2.4's -complevel 3, and it worked OK. I recorded a very safe 13:35 (yawn), and it played back fine in both Prboom 2.2.4 and Prboom 2.02 (i.e. it is a gemuine Boom 2.02 format demo). It desynched with Eternity, but that wasn't a surprise given my earlier experience with this wad.

BTW, I had no major ammo problems, and everything worked OK.

So, you could try that.

If you do want to give Prboom 2.02 a go, then I'd suggest putting "-width 640 -height 480" in your command line. Regarding settings, disable weapon recoil (Options - Setup - Weapons). No need to worry about AI - that was added in MBF, and not in Boom. As for your key-bindings, there might be a neat way to copy them across (don't know), but it should only take a minute to set them the way you like them, and then a little while playing with the mouse sensitivity.

Anyway, Prboom 2.02 is a useful program to have around, since it's the only way I've found in XP to watch some of Andy Olivera's TAS demos (the ones that he says don't work in Doom2.exe but do work in Boom).

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bloody hell i must just be having a bad day i cant even manage even a basic exit i just honestly dont know what to do with all the barons. really. i tried saving rockets and not killing the revenants or mancubi in the megasphere yard so i had, like 20 rockets and 50 shells and still couldnt deal with them, like i said the only way i've managed is by killing everything else and spending hours herding the barons about yawn

i'm off to bed anyway, i'll give it another go tomoroow. opefully i'll be able to turn my head then too as i seem to have pulled a muscle while shopping. bah shoppping.

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Sounds bad. If you want to see my crappy 13:35, it's here.

Addendum: If you do want to continue with Prboom 2.2.4 and complevel -1, then I think the settings need to be as follows (I'm quoting myself from a six-month old thread):

Change the settings not only in "Doom Compatibility" (make them all "Yes" - I think that is correct, anyway...) but also in "Enemies", to turn off the enhanced monster AI that was added in MBF (make the first two {'infighting' and 'remember'} "Yes", and the rest of them "No" - again, I'm not 100% certain).

And disable "recoil" in Weapons too. I was probably referring to Prboom 2.2.3 at the time - I hope none of them have been changed (e.g. the word "not" slipped in somewhere :p ).

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right, cool, cheers. you do seem to "luck in" with the infighting, your herding not included, e.g. the cacodemon towards the end would have just come straight for me and i never could get those revs and barons to fight even a little bit. still it gives me hope, heh. i had a god with complevel 3 on 2.2.4 last night and it seemed fine so i'll have a go with that then.

i managed a 7:23 exit with savegames (basically tackling a section at a time until i was happy/came out alive) which is the sort of run i wanted to record so i could watch it back before attempting the whole run in a demo.

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phew, got an exit:

map10 uvmax 107 81 100 10:07

http://www.planethalflife.com/uncrossable/personal/cyc/l2101007.zip

notes:

1. i hid in the corner up the stairs to assist the herding

2. i take lots of revenant rockets in the face, i am teh hardcore!

3. i had a crumb stuck under my mouse around the time just before getting the yellow key, made things a bit shaky for a while

4. those two revenants and the barrels, nice

5. one baron of that group of 4 just refused to be herded into the yard, heh. lost some time there, by far my biggest issue with this map has been what to do with them!

6. after that i had to pause to drink some tea as i was shaking from the adrenaline. it's very rare for me to get this far!

7. got the archie with my very last rocket! yeah baby. first time i'd defeated him, in the run before this i'd gotten this far in 7 minutes only to be taken out by the bastard cos i was being a bit cocky. you could hear me scream "noooooo" for miles around.

hurrah. can i be bothered to try it faster?!?!?!?!

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cycloid said:

hurrah. can i be bothered to try it faster?!?!?!?!

I find that a second exit often comes quite quickly after a first. That doesn't include maps where it's a scramble just to exit at all (e.g. a difficult NM run), but I think it is true for Maxes more often than not.

I recall Ryback estimating that a 2nd or 3rd exit tends to be quicker by about 10-15%, without any route changes.

So I'd say go for it.

As for the infighting in my slow demo, I thought I was quite unlucky with it overall. Dunno, I've played a lot of pacifist I suppose. ;)

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3rd exit. 2nd i ran out of ammo and had to leave a stray baron... 3rd exit i ad plenty of bullets left somehow and the time?


10:05

hardly 10-15%, heh

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http://www.planethalflife.com/uncrossable/personal/cyc/l210-929.zip

will its nearly 10%:

map10 uvmax 110 86 100 9:29

notes:

1. 2% and surrounded by chaingunners, revenants and aracnotrons, run forest run!

2. how many lost souls? pain elementals = teh sux

3. 4% health now, this is becoming a bad habit

4. missed two switches in a row there, fiddley

5. the reason i look around for a while before grabbing the yellow key is because i though there was still a revenant somewhere, turns out it had been infighted (you can see its corpse in the demo, i just failed to spot it!)

6. that's about 6 minutes of the 9 minute demo right there herding fucking barons, heh

7. ooh, look 3 spare rockets, darnit!

8. the demo is about the same length as underworld's rez, which is what i played it back to, heh2

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I just took a look at map10. I spent about half an hour time on it and managed to record a demo of 6:21 and I spent well over a minute just running around pointlessly because I didn't know the route well. I also foolishly recorded it on prboom -complevel 0 thinking that the map is doom2 compatible, so I couldn't get the megasphere :) It's not counted as a secret though so I did get 100% secrets. I got 100% kills too but I think that I missed one baron. So i'm definitely not sending this demo anywhere :)

My tips for you cycloid after I watched your demo would be to kill the pain elementals more agressively. I killed two of them with my first run through the room and the third after I ran through the aracnotron/revenant room making them fight each other. This way I only had to kill about five lost souls. This saves quite a lot of shells and is a lot faster too.

Secondly, monster infights are not that needed in the level, there isn't much ammo to waste but there should be enough. Well, good luck to you. Maybe I'll take another try on the level too if I find any time, and I propably won't.

EDIT: I think under 4 minutes should be possible, or at least under 4:30

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re: pain elementals... no matter what i do, if i stand there pumping ssg shells into their faces point blank i either die or the room fills up with lost souls from the other two or cacodemons get in between me and them and the room fills with lost souls in the mean time etc.

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I didn't have much problem with the PE's. I just got as close to them as possible and shot them, and usually didn't get too much damage. But don't kill all the PE's in the first try, visit the other room in the meantime and then come back to finish them.

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cycloid, darn nice runs. That map is no cupcake. As you know it is easy to die in there.

I enjoyed the runs.

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http://www.planethalflife.com/uncrossable/personal/cyc/l210-816.zip

map10 uvmax 102 86 100 8:16


surely THAT will do? heh. i really had no idea what the fuck i was doing once the revenant/knight tide started flowing far too early so i made it up, leaving the mancubi in the yard was a planned route changed (As opposed to herding barons in there ffs). i lost a baron, changed my mind, found it again, it gave the archie a moment to filter to the front of the revenants and provide easy rocket pickings though. yet again tho i get stuck on architecture in this run, in other failed runs i execute deft ammo/weapon/powerup grabs without glancing off anything, ho hum. i'm not attempting this map again, that's it. no way will i get through it like that again!

edit: speeling and, grammar

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ok so i lied... THIS is my final submission for map10

http://www.planethalflife.com/uncrossable/personal/cyc/l210-658.zip

map10 uvmax 102 81 100 6:58


the trick with the ammo is to use the chaingun on the lesser eneemies as much as possible, saving the ssg shells for the revenants and barons. other notable features of the demo include me taking two rocket launcher blasts at close range and getting away with it and the fact that i really wasnt expecting it to be under 7:30 never mind 7:00


well, it's been an interesting journey, laid out bare in this thread from me totally despairing at my inability to exit even with savegames to me kicking it's ass into the dirt. hurrah. to the pub!

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Yeah, it's funny how much the times tend to improve as you play a map more and more. After a while you just get a feel for how things work, and how the monsters react in each situation, and you find you can get away with stuff that you would a little while ago have regarded as suicide.

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Well, I guess this is still the right thread for this. Would be nice if [-complevel 9] were added to the thread title.

Legions of Hell 2 by John Gaughan

Map 11 Nightmare! Pacifist/Speed in 0:15

Keygrab. UV would be very similar but with less chance of being blocked by demons, so I didn't bother with that.

 

l211np15.zip

Edited by Grazza

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