Situations you most hate.

[Chopkinsca]

What are the most challenging situations you can be put in while playing a doom level?
Chaingunners at a long distance are annoying, especially on UV and you don't know where they are.

Killing a large amount of enemies and later on an archvile or two is teleported there and you have to make it back through.


I can't really think of many right now... but you get the idea.

blah

[dr_st]

A 10000x10000 room with 3 Arch-Viles and nowhere to hide.

[Lutrov71]

A room with an ArchVille and nowhere to block its attack.

[Dunbar]

The AV style "send in the swarm of revenants because be want teh challangge!!"

Chaingunners at a distance are pretty annoying.

Whenever a baron of hell is popped up right in front of me, and I run into it and die.

20 minute long cutscenes in ZDoom specific maps that are boring and uninteresting. Claust, I'm looking at you!

The good ol' "arch-vile teleporting into the last room and reviving the dead you just made" trick.

Being given a BFG before fighting a Cyberdemon. Why don't you kill the thing for us, Mr. Wad Author? It would save me a good 10 seconds.

Entering your map you're working on and seeing glaring texture problems that you have no idea how they got there.

[Ryback]

Archies hidden in walls so you can't kill them who constantly resurrect monsters outside the walls which means you can't completely kill everything in the level (hello, Plutonia 15).

[Graf Zahl]

Dunbar said:

The AV style "send in the swarm of revenants because be want teh challangge!!"

One of the main reasons I didn't like this WAD. Unfortunately they did it constantly with all kinds of monsters. A kind of gameplay that sucks IMHO.

Being given a BFG before fighting a Cyberdemon. Why don't you kill the thing for us, Mr. Wad Author? It would save me a good 10 seconds.

I think you can blame the master himself (John Romero) for this. The first map I saw this on was E4M6 of Ultimate Doom.

[Andy_Johnsen]

Graf Zahl said:

One of the main reasons I didn't like this WAD. Unfortunately they did it constantly with all kinds of monsters. A kind of gameplay that sucks IMHO.

Man, AV musta pissed you off at some point, haha..I see you lashing out on it whenever a chanse arise. And that would be ok if it wasn't the same old "Uv is too tough for me omg this suck and I'm too proud to try skill 1". I also find it amusing how you tend to generalize the gameplay of 32 maps from a bunch of different authors.

[DooMBoy]

Ryback said:

Archies hidden in walls so you can't kill them who constantly resurrect monsters outside the walls which means you can't completely kill everything in the level (hello, Plutonia 15).

I noticed Chris Hansen did this too in Flay the Obscenes 2 and 3. Oh yes, it is very annoying, especially when the monster being resurrected is a hitscan enemy (in this case, a chaingunner).

[Doom Marine]

The AV style "send in the swarm of revenants because be want teh challangge!!"

That type of gameplay which sends swarms of monsters comming after you is the main reason why I like AV so much (detailing doesn't hurt either). I think many people will agree on this.

The purpose of sending swarms of monsters after you is not only because they want you to have a challenge; it's also neccessary for the oppressive atmosphere that pits you against incredible odds.

[Dark Fox]

Anything involving arch's and skulls.. god I hate those things.

[Ichor]

Or it's a conspiracy by the keyboard manufacturers so they can sell more F8 keys.

But seriously, having to deal with 4 Barons of Hell, 6 Hell Knights, 4 Revenants, and a Mancubus or two in a small space with a shotgun and few shells, with a couple of chaingunners and an Arch-Vile in the distance, is not my idea of a fun map.

Another thing I hate is this: You start the map, and you see a couple of Hell Knights nearby. You only have a pistol right now, so you have to run. You run into the next room and you see an Arch-Vile, so you try to run past, only to get caught be the fire.

Reload...

You start the map, and immediately run. You make it past the Arch-Vile, and you end up in a long hallway with a bunch of Demons and a Spectre or two. You can't go that way (no ammo yet), so you head in the other direction until you find a chaingun and some bullets. You pick them up and immediately three Revenants teleport in and kill you before you have a chance to kill one.

Reload...

You start the map, and immediately run, just now noticing that there were chaingunners on a ledge right above you as they shoot away 35% of your health. You get killed by the Arch-Vile again.

Reload...

You start the map and immediately run. You lose 8% health from the chaingunners and make it past the Arch-Vile. Instead of heading for the chaingun, you spend ten minutes punching all the Demons and Spectres to death. You continue on and pick up a shotgun and a box of shells. Yipee. Out come a couple of Hell Knights,a Pain Elemental and a Cacodemon. You shoot the Cacodemon until you realize that the room is now filled with Lost Souls. So you continue on the still live Cacodemon, past about a dozen Imps and another Baron, a couple of Cacodemons, and a Lost Soul or two until you come to a locked door. (insert colorful metaphor here). You go back the way you came, and at this point, the enemies are a lot closer together and harder to avoid. You manage to kill a few Imps and make your way back to the hallway with all the dead Demons. You continue on to the chaingun, and start firing at the Revenants. You kill two of them before a Lost Soul spawned by that Pain Elemental hits you from behind, distracting you just long enough to get a Revenant rocket in your ear.

Quit...

[Draconio]

I'd have to agree with the chaingunner at a distance one. That can be a real pain, especially if they're at an elevation so that they can aim at you but you can't aim back (assuming no mouselook).

Running along a walkway like the ones in The Chasm, or even thicker ones for that matter, and a cyberdemon on a side platform hits you with a rocket, knocking you off the walkway and into poison/lava that finishes you off because you're already damaged.

I also remember playing a level that teleports you into a small, cramped rooms with company like mancubi, revenants, and arch-viles. That was extremely hard.

Then there's that other level where you take one step forward at the start and it triggers hidden doors to open, leaving you with a horde of chaingunners on either side.

Ryback said:

Archies hidden in walls so you can't kill them who constantly resurrect monsters outside the walls which means you can't completely kill everything in the level (hello, Plutonia 15).

I'm pretty sure there's a way to kill the viles in that map. I forget exactly how though, some switch that opens the wall or hits them with barrels or something.

[Little Faith]

The map 15 arch-viles gets killed at some point (at least the chaingunner sentries mysteriously lose their ability to respawn).


The arch-vile in map 31 is another matter though.

[DooMBoy]

Converted DOOMer said:

That type of gameplay which sends swarms of monsters comming after you is the main reason why I like AV so much (detailing doesn't hurt either). I think many people will agree on this.

Actually, I disagree. It's ok if you've god mode on and have all the weapons and ammo (and infinite ammo if you're playing with ZDoom), but as for playing it without any kind of cheats, it's just too frustrating. The minute you start you've got a horde of monsters breathing down your neck and they are surrounding you at all angles.

The purpose of sending swarms of monsters after you is not only because they want you to have a challenge; it's also neccessary for the oppressive atmosphere that pits you against incredible odds.

If you want a real challenge play Chord3 on UV. This level pretty much proves you don't need herds and hordes and buttloads of enemies to make a level challenging. As for incredible odds, this level also has that covered, it is quite difficult, plus the claustrophobic atmosphere makes it just that much worse...

[Anders]

Damaging sectors with no way out.

[Ichor]

Non-damaging sectors with no way out.

[Draconio]

Ichor said:

Non-damaging sectors with no way out.

I actually played a level where there's one point where you have a choice to drop off to the side or go straight. If you drop off to the side, you can never go back to that crossroad, and a door that's supposed to open will never open, leaving you trapped in an entire area with no way out, and it could take you a long time to figure out that you are trapped. It's a pity since the level seemed pretty good otherwise.

[Ubik]

-Chaingunners at a distance, especially when they're in groups behind a fake wall or cage. ESPECIALLY when you're running down a corridor, and the walls open up on both sides of you, revealing six chaingunners on each side behind a cage, with no way for you to get out of range quickly enough.

-Distance Arch-Viles, especially behind false walls, or in hard-to-see pillars or cages.

-Arch-Viles teleporting in and undoing all your hard work.

-Enormous swarms of Revenants. Especially when there's no shelter nearby, or even any pillars to help kill off the chaser rockets. Especially if they're on a fairly inaccessable area, or if Arch-viles keep reviving them.

-Large groups of Hell Knights and Barons in a relatively cramped area, with no other monsters. It's like they tease you with the idea that there can be some monster infighting until you realize they can't hurt each other.

-Any areas, damaging or non-damaging, that you can't escape from.

-Multiple Pain Elementals infighting with any other monsters. It fills the map with utterly annoying, boring Lost Souls that you can easily forget about and accidentally get killed by if the rest of the map is difficult enough.

-Cyberdemon battles in ultra-cramped areas (hi HR14!).

-More than 3 Arch-Viles together in ANY capacity. You get 4 or 5 of them together in one space and that's usually a quicker death than an equal number of Cyberdemons at one time.

-Multiple Cyberdemons or Arch-Viles in conjunction with an Invulerability. Then it just becomes an annoying hold-down-the-fire-button-until-everything's-dead exercise.

-Large groups of close-quarters shotgunners are almost as bad as chaingunners in the same role.

-Large groups of Spectres in a pitch-black room.

-Picking up a weapon or key, only to be surrounded by 20 Revenants or Chaingunners.

-"Cage" traps: where you pick up a key and the walls rise up to surround you, while monsters teleport in outside the cage and pummel you until you can find the random switch on the far walls to disable the cage. Often needlessly frustrating.

-STEALTH MONSTERS. Well, when they're used in improper excess, that is.

[Infinite Ammunition]

Being faced by strong things like Pain Elementals is annoying, especially in MAP09 and its like 5 PEs. Also chaingunners, Spider Masterminds or Arachnotrons at a distance suck.

[Ubik]

Infinite Ammunition said:

Spider Masterminds or Arachnotrons at a distance suck.

Also true. Spiderdemons pose the same risk as Chaingunners, but they're not found in such large groups or with such great frequency, so I don't think they're as dangerous. Arachnotrons at a long distance can be a pain in the ass, because you'll see a tiny green flash and not pay attention to it while you're occupied with other monsters, turn your back, and 10 seconds later you're fried by spider plasma because it didn't register as a threat in time.

Long-distance out-of-sight Cyberdemons pose a similar risk.

[Ichor]

Those enemies, especially Arachnotrons, at a distance can be used to kill the other enemies for you. Just lure them into an area within the Arachnotron's range, get behind the enemy or group of enemies, and wait a few moments. It's especially useful if there's more than one Arachnotron around.

[Ubik]

Ichor said:

Those enemies, especially Arachnotrons, at a distance can be used to kill the other enemies for you. Just lure them into an area within the Arachnotron's range, get behind the enemy or group of enemies, and wait a few moments. It's especially useful if there's more than one Arachnotron around.

Indeed. I'm just saying that, if you don't notice them at first, you can easily get killed by them at long distance.

Another thing: trying to circle-strafe around Arachnotrons or Mancubi when cloaked. Their rapid-fire shots will either go straight, veer left or veer right, and as such it's much harder to predict where their shot are going to go... I've accidentally strafed right into their shots while cloaked a number of times in the past.

[Ichor]

The farther away you are, the easier it is to avoid their shots when invisible, although I'd rather not be invisible at all when trying to fight a Cyberdemon. Really, invisibility works best against the hitscan enemies.

[Hyena]

The iamevil series had some hideous ones.
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11415
This one is particularly bad.

[dr_st]

Little Faith said:

The map 15 arch-viles gets killed at some point (at least the chaingunner sentries mysteriously lose their ability to respawn).

Those Arch-Viles get crushed when you step over a certain trigger line.

[Coopersville]

A small room with a touchplate activated door with a caco + pain elemental behind it.

[Draconio]

Hyena said:

The iamevil series had some hideous ones.
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=11415
This one is particularly bad.

I remember trying that map, and it crashed in every single source port I tried to use on it (I believe I tried PrBoom, ZDoom, and maybe Legacy as well). I never bothered with the rest of the series since I assume they're jokemaps.

[DooMer 4ever]

Most of all I hate mazes or maps in which you have to spend more than half of the time searching for the route. Most of the purely luck based monster fight are annoying too.

[Terra-jin]

Hi all!

The chaingunner-snipage is my #1,
Cage traps, like the ones so often used in HR,
Arch-Viles hidden behind walls and such,
A Pinky Demon in your face when starting a level with your wee pistol...

[Job]

Archviles in open areas...and it's worsened when there are a lot of monsters around you, so you can't easily focus on killing the archvile.