Something classic

[Thunderlord Jemanie]

I believe games like Doom I and Wolfenstein 3D actually started the whole FPS gaming revolution,even though there are earlier FPS games then those two.But what do you guys think?

[Mogul]

Absolutely.

No game before Wolfenstein 3-D produced the results it did, and no game after Doom has copied its mania to date.

[Stealthy Ivan]

I spent a year or two, sitting in front of my computer because of Wolf 3D, it was like some kinda drug!
I needed it to survive!
:)

[Mogul]

The gameplay is a big issue with these two games..

The sheer pace of the carnage in those games REALLY helped set them off and appeal to people. Not to mention the blood and other controversial issues.

And let's DEFINITELY not forget one of the biggest revolutions DOOM brought - FPS network play.

Also - DOOM coined the term "deathmatch" and revived the word "frag" from Vietnam and made it a house-hold word among computer gamers.

[myk]

I was thinking about frag the other day as I was playing some DeathMatch and Cooperative, and it's most likely that it was coined first for coop, and then stuck on for DeathMatch as well.

DeathMatch was only a secondary development from the planned Coop, which was going to be one of the game's main features. The word frag mainly indicates killing a comrade, and is used in coop for when you accidentally (usually at least, heh) kill one of your buddies.

[sethsez]

mje said:

Absolutely.

No game before Wolfenstein 3-D produced the results it did, and no game after Doom has copied its mania to date.

Well, I don't know about that... Serious Sam came DAMN close to capturing the sheer manicness of Doom (hell, I'm of the opinion that it bettered Doom in a few ways).

[Thunderlord Jemanie]

How do you guys feel when people say Doom is nothing more than the son
of Wolfenstein 3d?

I'm a Wolfenstein fan myself and feel that Wolfenstein and Doom are brothers and games like Quake,Unreal and Duke Nukem 3d are the sons.

[Mogul]

Well - Wolfenstein did come first.

But the cultural impact of DOOM was faaaaar greater than what Wolfenstein ever hoped for.

And regarding Serious Sam, when I was talking about the "DOOM mania" I meant in culture, not in gameplay (even though it was quite manic too!!)

[Enjay]

mje said:

Well - Wolfenstein did come first.

But Catacomb Abyss came before it. Same (?) engine as Wolf, but nothing like the impact. Maybe because of the EGA graphics?

http://www.idsoftware.com/games/vintage/catacomb/

But then, of course, Hovertank 3D came before that.

http://www.idsoftware.com/games/vintage/hovertank/

[Grimm]

Heh, Catacombs looks like it was basically just a smooth scrolling version of all those block-by-block dungeons. :)

[Mogul]

Enjay said:

but nothing like the impact.

Bingo.

That's what I'm talking about.

[Thunderlord Jemanie]

I'm saying Doom,Wolfenstein,Catacomb abyss,and Hovertank 3D are brothers in the generation of FPS games.Granted,some had bigger impact than others,but I'm saying they're like a group of siblings,all part of the classic 2D FPS family.

But something happened.I also believe they took them and merged it with a game that's 3D and poof,Here come's Quake I,the TRUE son of the FPS games.I didn't really like Quake I.It's too brown,even the blood,looks like sh*t.

[myk]

Games like DOOM, Duke Nukem 3D, Hexen and whatnot stand clearly appart from the earlier flat single-player FPS games (and evidently closer to actual 3D FPS games.) DOOM defines the gerne, Wolfenstein 3D and related games are a stepping stone or base for it.

Think widespread editing capabilities, demo recording, a working 3D environment, and multiplayer (DM and Coop.)

Also, DOOM and Quake have very many points in common. Later FPS games pretty much lost the tight play-oriented simplicity which they share (and which certainly has more potential than flat FPS games' playability.) The fact that one has a pseudo 3D engine and the other a full 3D engine is relevant, but still just an element among many. When making Quake id didn't deviate much from DOOM's design style.

And not unrelatedly they were both shareware games; this distribution method encouraged their straightforwardness (and a certain lack of concern over copyright or referential issues.) Later games, being more store-based commercially, are more pretentious in their design and tended to stray from the idea of "game" somewhat more into the idea of "simulation or make-believe."

Design periods in time should be compared in relation to the relative conditions of each, or you'll simply take arbitrary and supposedly obvious elements and use them to define games in a stale and superficial manner.

[psyren]

It is a new game (well NOT a NEW game, but I only want Doom

[Thunderlord Jemanie]

How many of you want to see a Doom Conversion where it's a mix between Doom,Doom II,Duke Nukem 3D,Quake I,Quake II,Return to castle Wolfenstein,and Wolfenstein 3D?

I think that would be sweet!

[dr_st]

Thunderlord Jemanie said:

How many of you want to see a Doom Conversion where it's a mix between Doom,Doom II,Duke Nukem 3D,Quake I,Quake II,Return to castle Wolfenstein,and Wolfenstein 3D?

I think that would be sweet!

I'm not so sure. Mixes are dangerous things. Can turn out utter crap.

Ideally, of course, there would be some standard universal engine, with true 3D everything, where you could import any monsters, weapons and tinker with the gameplay rules a bit. Then you could have everything, and would be able to mix all the games as much as you want. And then it could be said that it's up to the designer to come up with a good mix.

But that's too complicated and will never be done. I'll be happy just to see the Doomsday engine extended to cover the BUILD engine games. Then we'd be able to play Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, Blood with true 3D graphics and effects.

Of course Doomsday also needs to be optimized.

[Bucket]

I believe you are stating common knowledge.

Wolf3D and DOOM invented a new genre, as well as a new way to simulate a 3D environment.

In fact, DOOM itself is 100x more revolutionary than all three Quake games put together, and I'll tell you why:

True 3D was around before Quake. It was around before DOOM. Hell, it was around before Apogee, and even the 386 processor. Problem is, it wasn't very fast. The earliest 3D games featured few things more than flat-shaded polys. The best of the bunch featured a few shadows and gouraud shading. While DOOM was all the hype, the 3D technology was evolving in the background, to the point where Quake was a couple steps away. Add some texturing, compress the hell out of everything, put in some network code and-- there it is! 3D gaming as we know it!

[Thunderlord Jemanie]

I see what you mean but if you edit Doom,the characters are 2D pictures,the levels are 3D and some graphics in it are 3D but not a whole lot.If you alter quake,almost everything is 3D,the enemies,the weapons,the levels,etc.

Now Doom was revolutionary,but like Wolfenstein,that revolution became a thing of the past when the newest thing came out.That newest revolution was Quake.Personally,I like Quake II better than Quake and Quake III.But that's my opinion.

[moonspell]

Wolfenstein 3D without shadow of a doubt, started the FPS craze for real. The fast - paced gameplay, shocking graphics and addictive nature made it an instant hit and is now easily a true gaming classic.

Doom took the gaming world by storm and thrust it into the mainstream. Only one year after Wolfenstein 3D's release, the FPS genre broke new ground with Doom boasting an unbelievable engine, spooky sounds and music and quite literally the most addictive gameplay ever.

Quake carried it on, but never produced such a stir than the above masterpieces could. Reason:

Quake = Doom + true 3D engine + improved multiplayer functionality.

An improvement, yes, but not a revolution.

[Sharessa]

Man, I'd give my right nut to play Catacomb 3-d again.

[Bucket]

Thunderlord Jemanie said:

Personally,I like Quake II better than Quake and Quake III.But that's my opinion.

Seconded.

I try to play QW online nowadays, but there are so many custom downloads per server I end up missing an entire match. Plus the fact that the models have such low frame-count animations it's hard to tell what they're doing, and the learning curve is substantial(due to the large amount of 1337ness). And, I don't know if this makes sense, but Q3 seems TOO polished. And Punkbuster is a mixed blessing.

Q2 is the happy medium. Lithium forever.

[Lüt]

Danarchy said:

Man, I'd give my right nut to play Catacomb 3-d again.

I have Curse of the Catacombs and Terror of the Catacombs, so you can send both your nuts my way if you wish :D

[MaximusNukeage]

i agreee that doom made the revoloution possible, but only because wolf 3d make everyone look and BAM! doom comes allomng and WoWs every one. so i thing that the 2 were nessicary to make the effect they did. and it looks now like the same double wammy action could happen with HL2 and Doom 3

[Thunderlord Jemanie]

I love Return to castle Wolfenstein,I hope Doom 3 is going to be (at least) as good.I heard a rumour that they were planning on making RTCW 2 though,That would be sweet!

[Sharessa]

Lüt said:

I have Curse of the Catacombs and Terror of the Catacombs, so you can send both your nuts my way if you wish :D

Heh. Well for one, I don't want to give up my left nut, and for another, I probably can't run it on my computer anyway. :/

[dsm]

Thunderlord Jemanie said:

I love Return to castle Wolfenstein,I hope Doom 3 is going to be (at least) as good.I heard a rumour that they were planning on making RTCW 2 though,That would be sweet!

RtCW is a good game, but I hope Doom 3 will be far, far better.

Sure, I think a "RtCW 2" *could* be sweet, but I'm also kinda worried, because I think RtCW failed severely in catching the feel of Wolf3d - not because of the true 3d world and the semi-historcial correct environments, but it lacked a lot of small things that gave Wolf3d a distinct feel.

As for the topic at hand, I find Doom more revolutionary than Quake because it was such a gigantic step over Wolf3d and because it had so many gameplay features Wolfie didn't have:
Truly badass weapons, dark corridors, staircases, switch puzzles.

Quake 1 was merely an extension of all that, plus the weapons imo were a step back, having none of the awesomeness that Doom's guns had.

The graphics were also sexier (not better, but sexier) in Doom imho. The game world of Doom was so much more immersive, due to the many decorations, the outside areas and the variety of environments.

Wolf3d was a revolution, because it brought along prettier graphics, had a compelling concept (like Doom had), awesome environments (for the time, the maze-like environments in Wolfie felt kinda believable) and awesome sounds. The sound of clanking steel doors from the dungeons of Castle Wolfenstein will always remind me of that one FPS.

Immersiveness, I believe, is one of the main things that brought about the revolution in these games. I don't care squat that Doom 3 won't have the speed of the classic Doom game, because to me it isn't what matters - it's the immersiveness. The "getting-sucked-into-the-game-world"'ness.

Most games are merely fun, but few, very few actually succeed in truly drawing you inside. I believe Wolfenstein 3d and Doom both accomplished this to an impressive extent.

[Weakmind]

I have to say that it is an obivous piont to say that Doom started it all. I mean, look at some simi-old games that came out after doom. some of them had large demons similar to the pinky. I believe that Wolfenstien 3D was a warmer up to type of game. It was one thing that made Doom what it is in popularity.

By the way, can any one tell me what year Wolfenstien 3D came out?

[insertwackynamehere]

Enjay said:

But Catacomb Abyss came before it. Same (?) engine as Wolf, but nothing like the impact. Maybe because of the EGA graphics?

http://www.idsoftware.com/games/vintage/catacomb/

But then, of course, Hovertank 3D came before that.

http://www.idsoftware.com/games/vintage/hovertank/

Does anyone think those explosions (in the screens) look like a definite precurser to Doom's?

[Sharessa]

Well considering a lot of the art in all three games was done by Adrian Carmack, that's probably a safe assumption, and not likely much of a coincidence either.

[dsm]

Weakmind said:

By the way, can any one tell me what year Wolfenstien 3D came out?

Wolfenstien 3d? Never heard of it Einstein (;-P), but Wolfenstein 3D came out in 1992 - I believe it even says so in the game (in one of the menus/the title screen/whatever).