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Sephiroth

voodoo doll effect

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it is a neat effect, one i have not seen in other games. sadly not used much in maps.

however why does it happen and how does it work?

what is the line of code that causes this strange effect? and was it done on purpose or is it a bug

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It's not a bug. It's a "feature", and a very useful one at that. I seriously doubt that it was intended though, and with their editors back then they probably weren't even able to use more than one player start in a map.

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Sephiroth said:

sadly not used much in maps.

Eh, zillions of Boom maps use them.

Ichor:
with their editors back then they probably weren't even able to use more than one player start in a map.

I doubt that. It was probably the other way around - their editor didn't have strict checks and powerful automation but instead the level designer had to do the "hacks" himself. Adding this kind of restriction would require addition of code, not removal or just modification. No one does that when it's useless.

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Sephiroth said:

it is a neat effect, one i have not seen in other games. sadly not used much in maps.


That's because nearly every map that uses manikins has them out of sight, where they produce all manner of special effects in hidden sectors (usually Boom effects, but one or two can be done with vanilla). Only my maps (some of them) have them in visible play, as a kind of hazard and sometimes as part of a puzzle.

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I remember one being used in Cyberdreams' secret level. You had to get an invul. sphere and shoot the manikin into a teleporter or something. Generally I think they just interfere, but they can be used wisely (like in the example above).

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since nobody answered the original question of why voodoo dolls appear, I will explain it as best I can (and hopefully not be incorrect).

OKAY, so Doom allows you to place more than one player start, in fact for all intents and purposes you can have as many as you want (65536 is the upper limit for things I believe, but that's only limited by the engine, not the wad structure). So when Doom loads up a level it initializes each thing in the order in which is was placed, lowest numbered thing first. So it does a run through and inits the first player start as it should. This is where the player starts out. However then it comes to a second player1 start and it does the same thing, overwriting the previous start as where the player begins the map. However it should (I guess) destroy the old start so that it never appears, however the old start remains there, fully initialized and taking on all the properties of the player (health, ammo, armor etc). In fact it actually is you, it's just that Doom switched you to another start when it came across it.

So now this other you (which is where the term voodoo doll comes from, since what happens to it also happens to you, and why calling it a manikin is really incorrect :P ) will get any inventory you get, its health will go up and down as yours does, and if it dies then so do you (albeit in a sometimes odd fashion).

one interesting tidbit, if you shoot a voodoo doll and then 'die' from floor damage your health will read zero and you'll be dead (monsters won't attack you) but still be able to walk and even hit switches and trigger walkover lines. I think this is because damage you do to a voodoo doll isn't taken into consideration or something weird like that, but I'll have to check the source when I get home (at the comp lab now) to verify all this

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MaximusNukeage said:

whats the voodoo effect? if no one wants to explain it its ok, i dont think i've ever seen what your talking about


It's as people have stated above. Basically, you have a player object standing there with all the player attributes. Except when it takes damage, you do too. If it dies when you're invulnerable, you go into a zombie mode where you can walk around without weapons (IIRC).

//Edit: Ugh, Cyb covered all this. Which bit don't you understand, Maximus (not meaning to sound nasty)?

//Edit2: Manikin isn't such a bad term to use for them - it can mean anatomically correct lifesize dummy, which is one advantage it has over the voodoo doll term, which is generally thought to be small.

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The Ultimate DooMer said:

It can't die when you're invincible.

Oh, it's been ages ince I've played a map with one. What else causes the zombie effect anyway? I'm sure dying in slime isn't the only way.

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A manikin has 100% health just like you. If you are killed by a hit on a manikin, but the manikin itself doesn't die, then you get the zombie effect.

Unless you use the newer versions of ZDoom, as they give manikins unlimited health so this can't happen.

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Cyb said:

one interesting tidbit, if you shoot a voodoo doll and then 'die' from floor damage your health will read zero and you'll be dead (monsters won't attack you) but still be able to walk and even hit switches and trigger walkover lines. I think this is because damage you do to a voodoo doll isn't taken into consideration or something weird like that, but I'll have to check the source when I get home (at the comp lab now) to verify all this

Actually, there is another way to become a zombie. Have two voodoo dolls out, and shoot them both with an equal number of shots. When dealing with voodoo dolls, DOOM bases all the voodoo dolls' health on 100% total, instead of 100% each. When you reach 0% you 'die' but you become a zombie because no one voodoo doll (or you) took 100% damage in full.

That's the best I can explain it.

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The Ultimate DooMer said:

Only my maps (some of them) have them in visible play, as a kind of hazard and sometimes as part of a puzzle.

*BUZZ* Wrong!

Ever played Galaxia by Pavel Hodek? There's a section in that map where there are voodoo dolls in sort of "prison" area where the cells contain special items, but you can't get into those cells unless you shoot a hidden switch just behind the voodoo doll, which poses a hazard.

There's also a voodoo doll in one map of Industrial Techware, only this time out in the open, so you'd better kill those monsters before they take a shot at the doll, or better yet just don't stand near the doll.

By the way, it's really irritating me that you all are spelling "mannequin" wrong :P

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Piece_O_Mind said:

By the way, it's really irritating me that you all are spelling "mannequin" wrong :P

I prefer the mannequin spelling as well, but manikin is also an acceptable form.

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On one of the MK#### maps, one of the teleports at the end gibs you cause of a dummy player start put on the teleport destination.

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Hmmm, the voodoo doll is not affected by nukage, so the result is a 'zombified' voodoo doll. I have no idea how to get the zombie effect myself. The version was ZDOOM 2.0.61.

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Unless you use the newer versions of ZDoom, as they give manikins unlimited health so this can't happen.

Uh, doesn't this kinda break compatibility?

TWINS also had voodoo dolls out in the open.

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Heroes 2 had voodoo dolls out in the open, with spider masterminds.

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Mr. Chris said:

On one of the MK#### maps, one of the teleports at the end gibs you cause of a dummy player start put on the teleport destination.


This effect was also used in the puzzle at the beginning of Evilution Map30.

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Grimm said:

Uh, doesn't this kinda break compatibility?


no, because you still take damage when they get hit. breaking compatibility would be, say, removing them entirely... like a certain port does. *cough*

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Fredrik said:
I believe the most correct term would be "voodoo manikin".

You meant "voodoo clone in stasis." Manikin is really out of place except on a DOOM map with a clothes shop.

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Ah, so uh, you're right; it'd also be okay on a fashion stage styled DOOM map.

That particular spelling of the term seems to strongly imply a small man (as in the etymological origin of the word.) So the arguments given about size are pretty weak (as a replacement for doll.)

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Dictionary.com says about manikin:

1. A man short in stature.
2. A mannequin.
3. An anatomical model of the human body for use in teaching.

The third one might be closer.

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Y'know what would be cool? A mod that used voodoo dools to allow you to switch bodies.

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Fredrik said:
3. An anatomical model of the human body for use in teaching.

The third one might be closer.

Yes, in one of those school/university based wads... or, alternatively, for an "editing tricks" wad, where the aim is precisely to teach other designers how to do voodoo doll stuff.

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Consider it an anatomical model in the sense that it reacts anatomically (as realistically as it is defined in Doom) to damage :)

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