Doom 3 - super engine, Pistol Model - pos?

[stealth]

(hopefully this wasn't already a thread)

Near the bottom of this screen you see our marine hero holding his trusty peacemaker...but you also see a really bad thumb model (in my opinion anyways).

Pretty strange, huh?

I think it's probably just a draft model, but who knows...

Fredrik, dsm, do you guys know as your knowledge of Doom is extensive?



Maybe I'm being a little too hopeful.

[Scabbed Angel]

I don't have inside info, but as this was released pretty recently, and most companies wouldn't release pic with a "draft model" I'm pretty sure it is or near the final model in the game, but a picture that doesn't present it well.

[Caco-Puff]

We also dont see a crosshair there :P

[stealth]

heh...true. No doubt there will be one though.

[toxicfluff]

Heh, I liked the good old days of not having crosshairs. Use them in DM though. Above all, I hope Doom3 has the tiniest, most unobtrusive hud ever.

[stealth]

Definitely, having a whole bunch of unimportant status things clogging up my screen is not my idea of an enjoyable game...transparent or not.

[sniperfrommars1]

the hud in the alpha is almost non existent it actually feels more like your looking through that space marines helmet. I may be one of the few who had a good experience with the alpha, but im lucky enough to have a machine that can handle it. All told i think the true doom fanboys will remember what its like to have a zombie or imp scare the piss out of you. And i dont think anyone quite understands how scary the pinkys cybernetics are till you hear the pistons, hydraulics, or whatever it is that power those massive legs, rip through the wall and try to gnaw your face off. This game is DOOM....

[toxicfluff]

I find the data to be quite important, but I've personally always found a game to be a lot better with as little overlay as possible - it's just inconsistent with the game world to me, and pulls me out a bit. I always wished someone would just make a game with the ammo counters on the weapons, and demonstrate health via the hand getting bloodier or something.

[stealth]

In all honesty, I think the D3 hud is actually a good move because it seems to bring more realism to the game giving you all kinds of health status and if your out of breath or not. I think it's pretty cool...And definitely, if you're like me, having the capability of high-rez gameplay is a big big plus. The hud is sure not to really obstruct anything and it retains its usefulness.

[Shaviro]

I doubt dsm or fredrik knows anything about that. How would they? I really doubt there will be a new version of 'the thumb', but one thing I do know is that you will not be looking at the player's thumb while playing. So why waste precious polygons on it?

[dsm]

stealth said:

Fredrik, dsm, do you guys know as your knowledge of Doom is extensive?

If you're lucky, they may improve the skin and the bumb-mapping, but I doubt it, because it's such a small thing.

Heh, I liked the good old days of not having crosshairs. Use them in DM though. Above all, I hope Doom3 has the tiniest, most unobtrusive hud ever.

I honestly don't see what the fuss is about - most modern FPS allow you to select a "zero" crosshair (which means "no crosshair") and I can't see why this option wouldn't be in Doom 3 (especially not after all those comments on various Doom 3 forums about how people want there to be no crosshair!). I mean, both Quake II and RtCW had the option to turn off the crosshair and it may have been in Quake 3 Arena as well (but I'm not sure about this as I prefer a crosshair in a multiplayer deathmatch).
So I wouldn't worry overly about that - just trying to reassure everyone :-)

the hud in the alpha is almost non existent it actually feels more like your looking through that space marines helmet. I may be one of the few who had a good experience with the alpha, but im lucky enough to have a machine that can handle it. All told i think the true doom fanboys will remember what its like to have a zombie or imp scare the piss out of you. And i dont think anyone quite understands how scary the pinkys cybernetics are till you hear the pistons, hydraulics, or whatever it is that power those massive legs, rip through the wall and try to gnaw your face off. This game is DOOM....

Yeah and then they decided to scrap the helmet, leaving the hud an unexplained phenomenon :-/
But yes, the new HUD is excellent, judging by the screenies. Transparent, small, yet readable and unobtrusive.

I disliked the cybernization of the pinky, but I am gradually beginning to appreciate it more and more. I'm beginning to see why Id designed it like this.

I really doubt there will be a new version of 'the thumb', but one thing I do know is that you will not be looking at the player's thumb while playing. So why waste precious polygons on it?

Hmm, I don't see how the polygons are a problem here - the hand looks "high-poly" enough for me, but the skin could use an improvement if the hand were to come out as realistic looking.
But as you said, it really doesn't matter.
It's more important that they improve the monsters' skin.
/Me hopes Id will have improved the Revenant skin in the final version :-P

[Tetzlaff]

dsm said:

...it may have been in Quake 3 Arena as well (but I'm not sure about this as I prefer a crosshair in a multiplayer deathmatch).

Of course you can hide the crosshair in Q3A, with "cg_drawCrosshair 0", you can even remove the whole HUD with "cg_draw2D 0" (in case somebody wonders what could be the use of this: clean screenshots).
Just like you said, id Softwares games have had an increasing ammount of customisable variables, so we can be sure that there will be those basic options and probably many more.

[Fredrik]

It's common that game designers (intentionally or not) insert designs that only serve as placeholders and get replaced later on (oddly, often between the release and the last batch of screenshots before it!)

I wouldn't worry too much about this detail. If it really does look bad, id Software will of course notice and replace it. But we really can't tell from this shot alone, the look might just be due to a temporary lighting condition. That's the thing with the traditional plain texturing and high polygon approach without bumpmapping - it always looks about as good as it can get in stills. But it doesn't obey physics as soon as there is animation. Doom 3's approach risks looking weird in special cases, but it'll look better when you see it in action.

[TH-555]

just for the record, all the d3 models look like that thumb if you look closely. the lower polygon count allows for more charactars at once. however, the models still look great becuase of excellent(but still minimal) use of cell shading,lots of bumpmapping, and carmack's hella genius of an engine.

[sniperfrommars1]

So they removed the helmet since the alpha? IN the intro video you clearly see *Doom* put on his helmet before you take the controls. Also i booted just to check all the weapons and the thumb looks different in my version with a radeon 9800. I booted it on a Geforce fx 5200, and the thumb looks like it does in the screenies, dog crap. What gives?

[Fredrik]

TH-555 said:

however, the models still look great becuase of excellent(but still minimal) use of cell shading,lots of bumpmapping, and carmack's hella genius of an engine.

Cell shading?

[TH-555]

even tho the low polys and the great lighting, a lot of the polygons have been filled in with the same color or brightness, or in some cases a spectrum to make a smoother transition, making an other wise choppy model look much better, which is no small task considering the high quality of ther lighting engine.

cellshading: when you fill in a multi-polygon space with the same color or brightness level, or like i said a fading effect in su=ome cases.

oh yeah, and when you watch the e3 trailer, the pistol and thumb look the same as in the screenie.

[Skeletor]

i think the thumb model is fine. i would imagine doomguy having a messed up thumb after fighting thousands of demons :)

[Fredrik]

TH-555 said:

even tho the low polys and the great lighting, a lot of the polygons have been filled in with the same color or brightness, or in some cases a spectrum to make a smoother transition, making an other wise choppy model look much better, which is no small task considering the high quality of ther lighting engine.

cellshading: when you fill in a multi-polygon space with the same color or brightness level, or like i said a fading effect in su=ome cases.

I know what cel (one 'l') shading is. I also know that Doom 3 doesn't use it, Doom 3 uses per-pixel (Phong) shading for all surfaces.

And what does "filling with a spectrum mean" here? The textures contain no information about darkness level, all such spectrums are calculated in real time.

[TH-555]

what i mean is a single polygon may not have a fixed brightness, it may change from one end to another.(yes pixel shading is what i was looking for) if you use gmax or 3ds max much you know what i mean.

in fact, i just saw a french site that had doom3 beta(yes i know it sounds fishy) charactar wireframes and screenies, official and unofficial ones, and the models are fairly low poly.

remember the 14 shots that got removed from this sites linkage? it had an imp filled poly model, no textures, and it almost made me choke. it looked like a piece of wood or something.

[SyntherAugustus]

That pistol looks fine to me...

[dsm]

BlackFish said:

That pistol looks fine to me...

It wasn't the pistol the guy had an issue with - rather the marine's thumb.
Poor marine, has a bad thumb...:-P

[TH-555]

Skeletor said:

i think the thumb model is fine. i would imagine doomguy having a messed up thumb after fighting thousands of demons :)

[Lord FlatHead]

They've been using that pistol for well over a year and a half, and I don't see them changing it now. It's fine as it is anyway, if a little unimaginative (like the rest of the weapons we've seen so far).

Also... thumb model ? THUMB model ?? Is this really the best topic of discussion you people can come up with ?

id, please release a multiplayer test or something.

[Fredrik]

Lord FlatHead said:

Also... thumb model ? THUMB model ?? Is this really the best topic of discussion you people can come up with ?

I think it shows that the game is looking so good, all they can do is nitpick about stuff like this :P

[MaximusNukeage]

this is off topic but, there is a flash light in doom 3 right?

[Fredrik]

MaximusNukeage said:

this is off topic but, there is a flash light in doom 3 right?

Yes.