Commandment 11: Thou shalt vote the Catholic way

[Job]

Imagine you're a Catholic lawmaker.

An important abortion bill is coming to the table and you have to choose between your morals, the more liberal morals of the voters who got you into office and those of The Church. How would you vote for a bill if your local bishop had said any federal or state lawmaker who votes in favor of any pro-abortion bill will not be allowed to partake of communion, confession, last rites and many other Catholic traditions? The worst part is that this actually happened.

I'd vote in favor of the bill. Fuck the Catholic Church.

[AndrewB]

You didn't mention what the bill is.

[Job]

AndrewB said:

You didn't mention what the bill is.

I rechecked the newspaper I got the info from and they didn't mention a specific bill. However, it was the bishop from La Crosse, WI, and this occurred in Wisconsin in particular. /me edits accordingly

[Captain Red]

Heh, my catholic (yet very liberal) parents have never had a problem with their church (the same can not be said some of it's more conservative patrons). While I’m not cretin about where they stand abortion, I know they don’t take other catholic traditions to seriously.

As for my personal stance on abortion... while I realise that it is often the best option for all persons concerned, I still feel it is a bit of a grey area. I’m just thankful it’s a choice I’ll never have to make.

[Enjay]

Job said:

Imagine you're a Catholic lawmaker.

...Fuck the Catholic Church.

So, you're not imagining that you are a particularly devout Catholic then?

[Job]

Enjay said:

So, you're not imagining that you are a particularly devout Catholic then?

No, but if my church did that to me, I'd say that fairly quick. That's because religion is extraneous in regards to God.

[AndrewB]

Ct_red_pants said:

As for my personal stance on abortion...

AUGH WORMS WORMS

[Ultraviolet]

You mentioned last rites, and that got me off on this tangent...

I believe that the Catholic Church is contradictory to the Christianity it claims to practice. According to la Biblia, last rites are not needed for "salvation," and yet the Catholic Church would have people believe that if a priest doesn't read over you when you die then you are going to hell.

Now, don't go assuming I'm one of those Southern Baptist religious elitists or anything just because I make this argument. I'm actually about as far from being a churchie as one can get -- at least I try to be. :P

[Sephiroth]

religion and governemnt should have nothing to do with each other.

[Enjay]

[only slightly related, not fully thought out, semi disinterested comments]

Archbishop Desmond Tutu said something very profound relating to exactly why religion should be involved in politics. Unfortunately I can't find the quote ATM.

Problem is when you are dealing with faith and beliefs, saying things like "I'd just tell the church to go fuck'emselves" is very easy if you are not involved with the church. If you are, it just wouldn't make sense.

Likewise people get upset about others who "ram religion down their throat". Fine, but from the other perspective, if a person fully believes it is their duty and responsibility to bring the word to other people, and they fully believe they have been called upon by no higher authority than God himself to do so, then there is no question in their mind as to what they should be doing.

[/only slightly related, not fully thought out, semi disinterested comments]

[Ultraviolet]

Enjay said:

Likewise people get upset about others who "ram religion down their throat". Fine, but from the other perspective, if a person fully believes it is their duty and responsibility to bring the word to other people, and they fully believe they have been called upon by no higher authority than God himself to do so, then there is no question in their mind as to what they should be doing.

But they must know that their approach is not effective... not only that, but the directive-from-god to kill all the unbelievers and heretics back in the days of the inquisition was very anti "thou shalt not kill."

[Enjay]

Ultraviolet said:

But they must know that their approach is not effective...

Oh, I'm sure many of them will know that. Or if they don't know it to start with, I'm sure they find out pretty damned (ahem) quick after the 666th person has told them to stick their bible up their arse, or pretended to be a Satanist or simply told them to fuck off.

not only that, but the directive-from-god to kill all the unbelievers and heretics back in the days of the inquisition was very anti "thou shalt not kill."

True, but I'm sure they justified it with something like Heretic=Antichrist=Unsavable and potentially corrupting to others, therfore lesser of 2 evils - kill them.

I quite liked the Crusade "deal" that was done (handed down from some pope or other). For every Heretical barbarian killed, you could cancel out your own sins. Giving people a vested interest in killing the self same people who stood in the way of the pope widening his empire.


Unrelated (kinda), I was reading a paper recently that said celibacy for Catholic priests was something that was put in place a few hundred years after the formation of the church. Interestingly, it was suggested that celibacy wasn't instigated so that pious priests could devote themselves fully to the service and love of God with no distractions, but rather to try and stop them using the resources of the church to build their own little empires and estates with a view to passing them on, down through the ages to their sons and heirs.

[Fletcher`]

Sephiroth said:

religion and governemnt should have nothing to do with each other.

We already have Separation of Church and State laws. Nobody pays attention anymore.

[Job]

Enjay said:

Unrelated (kinda), I was reading a paper recently that said celibacy for Catholic priests was something that was put in place a few hundred years after the formation of the church. Interestingly, it was suggested that celibacy wasn't instigated so that pious priests could devote themselves fully to the service and love of God with no distractions, but rather to try and stop them using the resources of the church to build their own little empires and estates with a view to passing them on, down through the ages to their sons and heirs.

Heh, yeah, I heard that in History 105. Very logical and cunning -- those popes carried the silver tonge and mind of the devil himself. Hm...perhaps there's a connection...

[Ultraviolet]

You would think that the priests would know that the Bible said "be fruitful and multiply" and thus the church couldn't tell them to be celibate.

[Sharessa]

I'm always pro-choice.

[MaximusNukeage]

i am pro-choice aswell, but the idea of abortion is quite distasteful.
edit: especially those ones done late in the pregnancy

[Reisal]

Athiest and pro-abortion in favor if pregnancy threatens woman's life or was from rape/incest.

[Grimm]

and yet the Catholic Church would have people believe that if a priest doesn't read over you when you die then you are going to hell.

Maybe where you live, but I have heard that never, ever.

Pro-life.

[Captain Red]

Grimm said:
Pro-life.

you? pro life? I never would have guessed!

AndrewB said:
AUGH WORMS WORMS

oh come on, it had religion AND abortion, I'm just cuttung out the middle man.

[Grimm]

Gee, what a surprise. It's nice to know there's some things in this world you can always count on.

[Captain Red]

ravage said:
We already have Separation of Church and State laws. Nobody pays attention anymore.

they got rid of that lump of granite out of the supreme court, didn't they?

[wildweasel]

Filibuster. I'd strike a deal with the Senate, then toss some firecrackers down there to stir things up. They'll never stop talking, and a vote can never be placed.

[dsm]

Job said:

How would you vote for a bill if your local bishop had said any federal or state lawmaker who votes in favor of any pro-abortion bill will not be allowed to partake of communion, confession, last rites and many other Catholic traditions? The worst part is that this actually happened.

I'd get him sentenced for violating the damn "church and state separation" laws and vote for abortion.

Ct_red_pants (who apparently got promoted to Queen lately) said:
While I’m not cretin [...]

No, I'm sure you're right - you're not a cretin ;-P

Sorry, couldn't restist ;-)

but the idea of abortion is quite distasteful.
edit: especially those ones done late in the pregnancy

Ok, imagine you're a 14 year-old girl who got raped and turned pregnant. Your parents happen to be assholes who don't give a crap, so you don't know what to do once the child comes. Naturally, you'd choose to get an abortion.
14 year-olds aren't fit for bringing up children (a lot of older women aren't either), so you could say it's for the baby's own good to get killed instead of it growing up to be a sorry loser who goes in or out of jail.

Oh, and people get killed every fucking day, so it's not like it makes a difference if a baby ends its very short life in its mother's belly. You could say that the baby got spared this hellhole called "life".

[Naked Snake]

dsm said:
I'd get him sentenced for violating the damn "church and state separation" laws and vote for abortion.

Yeah, I'd do that too. I'm for abortion because I don't like to tell people how to live.

Ok, imagine you're a 14 year-old girl who got raped and turned pregnant. Your parents happen to be assholes who don't give a crap, so you don't know what to do once the child comes. Naturally, you'd choose to get an abortion.
14 year-olds aren't fit for bringing up children (a lot of older women aren't either), so you could say it's for the baby's own good to get killed instead of it growing up to be a sorry loser who goes in or out of jail.

Though I really don't agree, I just don't feel a baby is really "alive" until it is like, 4 months maybe.

[Grimm]

You don't have the right to pass judgement over the life of someone who's done nothing wrong. Especially when you don't for certain how the child's life will turn out. And obviously, you don't.

[Naked Snake]

Grimm said:

You don't have the right to pass judgement over the life of someone who's done nothing wrong. Especially when you don't for certain how the child's life will turn out. And obviously, you don't.

When is it life and when is it just a lump of cells?

[Fredrik]

BBG said:

When is it life and when is it just a lump of cells?

It is life once it has been ignited by the divine spark.

[Ultraviolet]

Fredrik gets the humor award! A link to goatse! I will give it to you on IRC.

[Sharessa]

The funny thing is that most of the people who argue against pro-choice are the same people who are for the deaths of gays, muslims, and inmates.